Collect Services - help with parking fine - Please!!!

[london-girl]

Hello

Hope someone can help!

On Tuesday or Wednesday I received a letter from Collect services stating that I owe £138.16 for a parking fine; wrote a letter offering payment, which i sent at the weekend. Today I arrived home and found a hand delivered letter from a bailiff. On the front of the envelope was a typed note that read:

PRE-REMOVAL NOTICE

Unless paid in full or arranging with the Bailiff to collect the sum due by 6pm today, our removal Bailiff will return after that time to seize your vehicle or remove your household goods as an alternative.

If necessary Legal Entry will be made even in your absence.

To avoid this action: Wayne Doyle on 07920 221569 before 6pm today (17.10.06 - hand written)

Inside the enevelpe was a letter with an amount due £183.99 on the back (typed) and on the front hand-written £327.99.

How do they work this out?

I do not have the money to pay an £190 odd; what can I do... i have called and left a very disgruntled message. What can I do if they turn up tomorrow morning?

How can they gain Legal Entry if I don't let them in?

Can i apply to the courts for them to look at the amount they are demanding?

Please help!!!

[livelylad]

Hello

Hope someone can help!

 

On Tuesday or Wednesday I received a letter from Collect services stating that I owe £138.16 for a parking fine; wrote a letter offering payment, which i sent at the weekend. Today I arrived home and found a hand delivered letter from a bailiff. On the front of the envelope was a typed note that read:

PRE-REMOVAL NOTICE

Unless paid in full or arranging with the Bailiff to collect the sum due by 6pm today, our removal Bailiff will return after that time to seize your vehicle or remove your household goods as an alternative.

If necessary Legal Entry will be made even in your absence.

To avoid this action: Wayne Doyle on 07920 221569 before 6pm today (17.10.06 - hand written)

 

Inside the enevelpe was a letter with an amount due £183.99 on the back (typed) and on the front hand-written £327.99.

How do they work this out?

I do not have the money to pay an £190 odd; what can I do... i have called and left a very disgruntled message. What can I do if they turn up tomorrow morning?

How can they gain Legal Entry if I don't let them in?

Can i apply to the courts for them to look at the amount they are demanding?

Please help!!!

 

 

 

 

Bailiffs of any kind can NOT enter through a locked door and can NOT break in.

 

They CAN enter an UNLOCKED garage and take your car away. They CAN take it from the street. Without going into any more detail, the rules are simple:

 

They CANNOT enter your home if you don't let them in - NEVER sign anything, even outside the door, they wil tell you it's a repayment agreement and you MUST sign or your goods wil be removed.

 

RUBBISH! There is NO law which says you have to agree to or sign anything, and if you don't let them in they can't break in. if you DO sign you wil probably have been duped into signing a "walking possession agreement", this then means you have signed your goods over to them (such as your TV and video) and most importantly if you have signed they CAN then legally break in.

 

DON'T SIGN ANYTHING. EVER!

 

What about your car? Simple. Tell them you are self-employed. They can NOT take your car if it is for business use. Similarly, they can not take it if you are buying it on H.P. (Hire purchase) because you don't own it, so it's not yours to take. HOWEVER this does not apply if you got a loan (not H.P.) to buy the car.

 

Go for the self-employed angle. If you get a letter saying "Pay up or we will come round and take your goods and/or car", just write back telling them that you are self-employed and you need your car for business use. Send it recorded delivery. Trust me, they wouldn't even risk taking your car. They may ask for proof you are self-employed. Ignore them. You have no obligation to prove anything.

 

Also check this link regarding the ticket.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-consumer-issues/5232-your-parking-ticket-may.html?highlight=parking+tickets

[london-girl]

I intend to write/send this letter tomorrow, I will also fax it tonight.

18th October 2006

 

SENT VIA RECORDED DELIVERY

 

Administration Manager

Collect Services Limited

2 / 4 High Road

Ickenham Middlesex

UB10 8LJ

Your Ref: XXXXX

 

 

Dear Administration Manager / WAYNE DOYLE

 

Re: penalty charge number: XXXXX 15/03/2006

 

 

 

 

I write with reference to the letter dated 17-10-2006; which states that I owe £327.99 for the above named ticket. Firstly, I have sent payments to your offices for the ticket; secondly which is much more disturbing is the amount the ticket has been raised to! How does a £138.16 mature to £327.99 in under 6 days. Your 1st letter was in fact dated Monday 11th October, which I received soon after.

 

Your letter states that you intend to if necessary gain legal entry to my home even in my absence – there are no articles that state that you are allowed to do this as I have not given you permission to enter my home. So any such entry will be rendered as a theft and I will seek to instruct preceeding for trespassing, and if any goods are removed, theft. You have also stated that you intend to remove my vehicle, which is subject to a hire purchase agreement and is used for work (I am self – employed).

 

As per my first paragraph the debt has been paid via payment arrangement and the fees you are now seeking are unjust and unreasonable. I intend to seek legal council to investigate the operations of you/your bailiffs as they are collecting money fraudulently. And, as you have a contract with the council I am sure you have a vulnerable debtors clause, which means that you must allow debtors to make affordable payments.

 

I look forward to reviewing your comments.

 

Your sincerely

XXXXX

 

Is it okay?

[livelylad]

I intend to write/send this letter tomorrow, I will also fax it tonight.

18th October 2006

 

 

SENT VIA RECORDED DELIVERY

 

Administration Manager

Collect Services Limited

2 / 4 High Road

Ickenham Middlesex

UB10 8LJ

Your Ref: XXXXX

 

 

Dear Administration Manager / WAYNE DOYLE

 

Re: penalty charge number: XXXXX 15/03/2006

 

 

 

 

I write with reference to the letter dated 17-10-2006; which states that I owe £327.99 for the above named ticket. Firstly, I have sent payments to your offices for the ticket; secondly which is much more disturbing is the amount the ticket has been raised to! How does a £138.16 mature to £327.99 in under 6 days. Your 1st letter was in fact dated Monday 11th October, which I received soon after.

 

Your letter states that you intend to if necessary gain legal entry to my home even in my absence – there are no articles that state that you are allowed to do this as I have not given you permission to enter my home. So any such entry will be rendered as a theft and I will seek to instruct preceeding for trespassing, and if any goods are removed, theft. You have also stated that you intend to remove my vehicle, which is subject to a hire purchase agreement and is used for work (I am self – employed).

 

As per my first paragraph the debt has been paid via payment arrangement and the fees you are now seeking are unjust and unreasonable. I intend to seek legal council to investigate the operations of you/your bailiffs as they are collecting money fraudulently. And, as you have a contract with the council I am sure you have a vulnerable debtors clause, which means that you must allow debtors to make affordable payments.

 

I look forward to reviewing your comments.

 

Your sincerely

XXXXX

 

Is it okay?

 

Yeo that sounds fine:D

[lookinforinfo]

Although you are London girl, do I take it that your parking ticket was incurred

outside the central area? The reason I ask, is that if you refer to the london motorists group yourrr fine is consistently less than their figures

London Motorists Action Group - Content

they give a step by step guide to how bailiffs fees, and hence the fine mounts up.

After looking at the bailiff page, switch over to the handling PCNs to see if you

have a possible case for having the ticket quashed.

 

I take it from your first post, that while you offered to pay the sum, you did not

include a cheque, or any other form of payment? Did you send the letter first class

or recorded? If only first class, they can turn round and deny receiving it. And in

doing so, they can now ratchet up their fees.

Check the letter you received-was it sent on Monday or Tuesday? They have to

give you 7 days allowing for the letter to be delivered, so to come round today

if only posted last Tuesday is wrong.

 

For safety, park your car away from your home to make it difficult/impossible for the bailiff to clamp it.

 

Others better equipped than myself should be able to advise you whether you are

better to phone or write to ask if they received your letter, and if they will

therefore accept that figure [£138] as the amount due.

 

PS Sorry I wrote this post earlier this evening and got called away. When I returned, I missed

that there had been new posts.

[Guest Zooman]

again I will say:

 

The onus of proof is on you not the Bailiff.

 

They may ask for proof you are self-employed. Ignore them. You have no obligation to prove anything.

See above. The courts have ruled on this many many times and the lower courts hands are tied.

 

This site will not encourage people to tell people untruths. If your not self-employed to not include that statement as simple you are burning your paths as any Judge, Council official will not look favorable on this.

 

Now the question simple lays with the HP, put a copy of the HP agreement with the fax or they will simple think you are lying and if the car should be there when they call it will probably be Levied. Sending the HP agreement will give you protection.

 

Anyway - Collect Services.

 

First the £183.99 printed on the back. This clearly comprises a warrant value of £125 plus a first visit statutory fee of £45.83.

 

BUT, the way to work out a statutory fee is this:

 

£125 + £11.20 letter charge (ex VAT) = £136.20

Round to £137 to calculate.

£137 @ 28% (on first £200) = £38.36

£38.36 + VAT (£6.71) = £45.07 (not £45.83)

 

What they have clearly done is rounded up the £38.36 to £39 then added VAT = £45.83. This is wrong as rounding up is for the purpose of 'calculating' not for the purpose of rounding the ex_VAT fee. They have charged 76p too much. Minor point and probably not intentional, more a question of bad interpretation of the SI.

 

The balance then of £144 will be their 'attending to remove goods where no goods are removed' reasonable fee of £122.55 plus VAT.

 

Unlike c tax regs, this 'abortive removal' fee is perfectly legal as it states 'for attending to remove goods where no goods are removed, reasonable costs and charges'. As the prime objective of bailiffs is to seize goods not collect money then it is a legitimate fee and it can be charged on as many occasions as necessary. No prior levy is required.

[london-girl]

So are you saying that they are lawful in adding the fees?

I am self-employed and the H.P agreement isn't even in my name so I am not simply trying to mislead the Bailiffs!! ?

 

The Bailiffs in my opinion are ripping people off.

Why is it necessary, since they drive company leased cars/vans for them to charge £125 for putting a letter through my door?

I am at the moment tending to credit debts (via a debt management plan with CCCS), I am not trying to evade payment, I simply do not want to be ripped off, which is what I feel Collect Services are attempting to do.

 

Thanks for the breakdown of the costs but I feel these Action Groups Discussions ought to be seeking to work in favour of consumers rather than 'rip of organisations' that take liberties with archaic legislation to benefit their own bank balances

[Guest MizzPiggy]

Dear London Girl,

 

I am sure Zooman was just trying to point out the obvious and did not mean harm.

 

Yes the fees can seem unreasonable and yes there are issues.

 

If you would like some help, as obviously by your posts you are really worried, then send me a quick message and more than happy to help.

 

If you email me at [email protected] am sure I can alleviate some of the distress till morning.

 

Zooman was only being fair with his comments...honest..

[blueskies]

One thing is not clear from this post is whether the original parking fine is lawful. Did you know about this before the bailiffs got in touch?

 

If the original fine is lawful then everything in Zoomans post is spot on. You must not lie in any official communication as this will destroy any credibility you have should the matter reach court.

[blfuk1]

Thanks for the breakdown of the costs but I feel these Action Groups Discussions ought to be seeking to work in favour of consumers rather than 'rip of organisations' that take liberties with archaic legislation to benefit their own bank balances

 

Blueskies comment is spot on. Go to the source. If that's in error then fair enough.

 

I have to say I think it is unfair to anyone who posts information of the site to criticise them for trying to help. Zooman was simply pointing out facts on which you could then make a reasoned judgment. Alison at Watchdog on the other hand is an active advisor who specifically helps people facing debt and erroneous enforcement. Both are just trying to help.

 

Just because you don't like what can be legally charged doesn't mean that the bailiffs have done something illegal. Just because you don't like the fee scale doesn't mean the bailiffs have abused it. Would you question the cost charged to a debtor if you were the creditor owed money or would you rather pay yourself the costs of what is basically the same as providing any other service (in terms of overheads such as labour, transport, accommodation, etc)?

 

Enforcement like any other service has a cost. Is it right for the person who owes the money to pay for it or for the creditor? If the state is the creditor does that mean all of us should pay?

 

As I've said before, it's not about [legitimate] cost but about appropriate enforcement. If a debtor really cannot pay, then a creditor has a right to secure payment by having the debtor's goods sold to raise the money. If the debtor has only basic goods and seizure would seriously impact on their basic needs then seizure must not be undertaken. In such instances bailiffs are not the solution.

 

Debt advisors, of whom I know many, are there to assist those in financial difficulty and not to thwart the system or dodge payment. They too must operate in a legitimate manner according to the rules laid down. Their aim is to negotiate a way to minimise the affect of debt, reduce it where possible but set a course for repayment which does not cause undue hardship to the debtor and is acceptable to the creditor.

 

While I have every sympathy for 'consumers' (of which I am one also) who are blighted by corporate greed, we are not talking about consumer debt here but the effect of a warrant issued by a court for a penalty prior to which there are no less than 3 occasions in which an appeal may be lodged. The rights and wrongs of the origins of a parking penalty are for others to judge but if everything has been done in accordance with the law of the land, then there should be no complaint against those who are charged with upholding it.

 

I learnt long ago that nobody likes bailiffs, except when they recover money owed to them. I accept that decriminalized parking regimes are unpopular, but bailiffs didn’t invent them. They were all instigated by local authorities who had all been voted there by the local people….. if you don’t like it, vote them out.

 

One final point, at which this epic began. If bailiffs operate in a legitimate manner and charge legitimate fees then I see no problem and will defend their existence. If they behave inappropriately and overcharge, then I’m right beside you in wanting to see them dealt with.

 

We forge the chains that bind us. Charles Dickens.

[lookinforinfo]

Sitting on the sidelines on this one and after reading the posts again, I can see

why London Girl is upset and where the responses have not quite hit the points

she was hoping for.

 

From her first post, it was not clear whether she had sent a chegue with the letter

[she said she had offered payment]. Her second post clarified that and explained

why she felt aggrieved.

She had, as she felt, paid them, and now not only were they coming back for more,

but threatening even more charges.

 

We do not know, given the vagaries of our postal system if CCS had received her cheque. And even if they had, whether they feel that a cheque is, to them,

an acceptable form of payment.

Whatever, the letter on Tuesday was a disgrace. There is no way that they can effect legal entry without her presence until they have walking possession at least-which

they did not have. In addition, to deliver a letter, and to arrange, without the

consent or knowledge of Londongirl, another [costly] appointment for the same day

is highly dubious as to its legality. Especially as at that time, the collector had

no knowledge of how she would pay. A debit or credit card payment would resolve

the problem without recourse to vans ets etc.

 

A bit unfair to have a go at Zooman, but understandable in view of her

circumstances, since he was mostly responding to another post in the thread, as

well as explaining how bailiffs charge. He was not to know that Londongirl is

selfemployed -merely pointing out the dangers of so claiming if untrue. [As an aside, I feel that in a Court of Law, claiming you are selfemployed by reason of having registered as a trader on Ebay would be insufficient justification. Especially if your main employment is a salaried one.]

 

To end,I hope that by now, CCS will have received her cheque and accepted it as payment.

in full.

[Guest HUSBANDKHAN]

to start thing off. london girl want to file a pe3 and a pe2(late filing of a stat dec out of time) thisis available from the tec @ northampton phone number :08457045007. quote the pcn number if not on letter ask the bailiff company what the pcn number is. phone tec with this and say you want to file a late statutory dec because you did not recieve the pcn or any paperwork to it. they will send you out 2 forms you must fill these in and also get them witnessed at a county court office/magistrates etc. you can either swear or affirm. i personally affirm. you then must fax/email/post these forms of to the tec(northampton) who will order whoever is chasing you for the pcn to halt all action. it usually takes approx 4-8 weeks for a reply. either the chaser will aknowledge the late stat dec and withdraw action or they will refuse to accept it. the next part is where the application will be referred to a court officcial who decide without a hearing. this is the part that will take 4-8 weeks. once they decide if they refuse you must notify the chaser and file an n244 this will be sent to you with a decision. technically the chaser can still continue its action. in most cases they hold pending the appeal to a local district judge. simple.when you get infront of the dj expalin what happened and he will sort it out. the penalty will go back to the notice to owner stage.

[Guest HUSBANDKHAN]

to start thing off. london girl want to file a pe3 and a pe2(late filing of a stat dec out of time) thisis available from the tec @ northampton phone number :08457045007. quote the pcn number if not on letter ask the bailiff company what the pcn number is. phone tec with this and say you want to file a late statutory dec because you did not recieve the pcn or any paperwork to it. they will send you out 2 forms you must fill these in and also get them witnessed at a county court office/magistrates etc. you can either swear or affirm. i personally affirm. you then must fax/email/post these forms of to the tec(northampton) who will order whoever is chasing you for the pcn to halt all action. it usually takes approx 4-8 weeks for a reply. either the chaser will aknowledge the late stat dec and withdraw action or they will refuse to accept it. the next part is where the application will be referred to a court officcial who decide without a hearing. this is the part that will take 4-8 weeks. once they decide if they refuse you must notify the chaser and file an n244 this will be sent to you with a decision. technically the chaser can still continue its action. in most cases they hold pending the appeal to a local district judge. simple.when you get infront of the dj expalin what happened and he will sort it out. the penalty will go back to the notice to owner stage. i am currently in the process of chasing jbw and ccs ltd for approx £7000 they took off me. ihave been there and done it. also do not let anybody into your house. they cannot force the door or cannot have you arrested. they can get in through any unlocked window. i live on the 2nd floor so the bailiffs are f***** trying to get through mine. also their is a health and safety law in place. to get to a certain height they need to use scaffolding and saftey equipment.

[Guest HUSBANDKHAN]

to start thing off. london girl want to file a pe3 and a pe2(late filing of a stat dec out of time) thisis available from the tec @ northampton phone number :08457045007. quote the pcn number if not on letter ask the bailiff company what the pcn number is. phone tec with this and say you want to file a late statutory dec because you did not recieve the pcn or any paperwork to it. they will send you out 2 forms you must fill these in and also get them witnessed at a county court office/magistrates etc. you can either swear or affirm. i personally affirm. you then must fax/email/post these forms of to the tec(northampton) who will order whoever is chasing you for the pcn to halt all action. it usually takes approx 4-8 weeks for a reply. either the chaser will aknowledge the late stat dec and withdraw action or they will refuse to accept it. the next part is where the application will be referred to a court officcial who decide without a hearing. this is the part that will take 4-8 weeks. once they decide if they refuse you must notify the chaser and file an n244 this will be sent to you with a decision. technically the chaser can still continue its action. in most cases they hold pending the appeal to a local district judge. simple.when you get infront of the dj expalin what happened and he will sort it out. the penalty will go back to the notice to owner stage. i am currently in the process of chasing jbw and ccs ltd for approx £7000 they took off me. ihave been there and done it. also do not let anybody into your house. they cannot force the door or cannot have you arrested. they can get in through any unlocked window. i live on the 2nd floor so the bailiffs are f***** trying to get through mine. also their is a health and safety law in place. to get to a certain height they need to use scaffolding and safety equipment. try it

[blfuk1]

to start thing off. london girl want to file a pe3 and a pe2(late filing of a stat dec out of time) thisis available from the tec @ northampton phone number :08457045007. quote the pcn number if not on letter ask the bailiff company what the pcn number is. phone tec with this and say you want to file a late statutory dec because you did not recieve the pcn or any paperwork to it. they will send you out 2 forms you must fill these in and also get them witnessed at a county court office/magistrates etc. you can either swear or affirm. i personally affirm. you then must fax/email/post these forms of to the tec(northampton) who will order whoever is chasing you for the pcn to halt all action. it usually takes approx 4-8 weeks for a reply. either the chaser will aknowledge the late stat dec and withdraw action or they will refuse to accept it. the next part is where the application will be referred to a court officcial who decide without a hearing. this is the part that will take 4-8 weeks. once they decide if they refuse you must notify the chaser and file an n244 this will be sent to you with a decision. technically the chaser can still continue its action. in most cases they hold pending the appeal to a local district judge. simple.when you get infront of the dj expalin what happened and he will sort it out. the penalty will go back to the notice to owner stage. i am currently in the process of chasing jbw and ccs ltd for approx £7000 they took off me. ihave been there and done it. also do not let anybody into your house. they cannot force the door or cannot have you arrested. they can get in through any unlocked window. i live on the 2nd floor so the bailiffs are f***** trying to get through mine. also their is a health and safety law in place. to get to a certain height they need to use scaffolding and safety equipment. try it

 

I would think that Husbandkhan is a prolific 'offender' from his post. £7,000 is either a large fee hike or, more likely I suspect, a lot of parking tickets - for which Husbandkhan presumably never received any of the countless letters sent to him?

 

The advice given is not on how to deal with [bad] bailiffs but how to park with impunity and avoid paying what is due.

 

Londongirl in her original post stated, "On Tuesday or Wednesday I received a letter from Collect services stating that I owe £138.16 for a parking fine; wrote a letter offering payment, which i sent at the weekend", which I assume to mean that she acknowledged the ticket which for whatever reason didn't get paid and agreed (by sending a cheque) to pay it now. She objects to having to pay fees which she considers unfair as she sent payment (possibly a little late). But she did not try to avoid her responsibility.

 

Clearly, there are two types of people on this site. Those in genuine difficulty facing unfair attention and those, like Husbandkhan who seek to play the system. No wonder bailiffs can sometimes be overly diligent!

[blfuk1]

To end,I hope that by now, CCS will have received her cheque and accepted it as payment in full.

 

Minor point I've just noticed. The bailiffs in this case are CSL (Collect Services Ltd) not CCS (as featured by BBC1)!

[Sufferer2009]

Would they accept the re-sent forms??