Natwest Credit Card / Loan PPI **WON £14k**

[gingerdave27]

Hi all,

 

Following on from my recent success with reclaiming my PPI from HFC Bank I have decided to pursue Natwest Bank for PPI on a loan and Credit Card.

 

Whilst I was waiting for my HFC complaint to be processed

 

I sent a SAR to Natwest for all information possible.

 

They were fairly swift to reply with Credit Card information,

with statements going back six years (as expected!)

My Loan information took a little longer but arrived this week.

 

I was horrified to see I had a chain of six loans with Natwest,

all consolidations of previous ones and the first five all had single premium, front loaded PPI!

 

This was cancelled during the end of my fifth loan following a review of my finances

and the realisation of how much it was costing me.

 

These loans were all taken out / topped up when I was much younger and much more naieve!!

 

I have now sent off two complaints to Natwest regarding the loans and the credit card PPI.

 

Will keep fingers crossed and keep this updated on progress.

[dx100uk]

nice rollover coming.

 

you need to do a spread though

else you'll never know if their refund is actually correct

 

see no.1. below.

 

dx

[gingerdave27]

Hi dx,

 

Yes hopefully will be a nice rollover coming! Have specifically requested in my compliant letter that they take into account they were all a chain of consolidation loans with single premium and requested detailed breakdown if upheld including rebate amounts and any rollover from one to the next.

 

Unfortunately I'm unable to do a spread sheet at the moment as they have only provided me with a loan overview with amounts, acc numbers and insurance premium amounts. In the covering letter they state that they are unable to locate my original credit agreements. But at least they have admitted ppi was applied.

 

Whilst my complaint is being processed would it be wise to send them a failed sar letter to try to obtain the missing agreements. I would like to be in possession of all the facts and figures, to enable me to compile an accurate spready.

 

What are everyone's thoughts?

 

Ginge

[dx100uk]

do you know the terms or dates of each loan

 

scan up what you know

 

lets see

 

dx

[gingerdave27]

I know the dates and amounts of credit and ppi but no interest figures. I can just about about remember the prob terms each loan was over. So I could work out an approx ppi payment each month but not including interest.

 

Ill scan up the loan info they sent me when I get to work tomorrow and go from there.

[gingerdave27]

Hi Dx

 

You should find below the only information on my loans that Natwest have currently provided me with. Statement only, and i'm assuming the amounts shown do not included any interest.

 

Your thoughts appreciated

 

Ginge

[dx100uk]

well if you knew WHAT you paid PCM for each loan

[even one payment] then you'll be able to workout the PPIPCM.

 

dx

[dazza12]

Did you complain about the SAR not being complete?

 

The reason I ask is because RBS/Natwest have been known to keep details for a lot longer than 6 years. They have account details going back to the early 90s (according to their PPI department and verbally from their SAR team), despite them not yet providing it under a SAR for me.

 

If your credit card is older than 6 years, then it could help you work out if whatever they offer (if they uphold) is a fair offer or what they think they can get away with based on the last 6 years.

[gingerdave27]

Hi Dx, I can remember some of the amounts but not all. I may ask in the branch for current account statements covering a sample month in each loan period just to get an idea of what i was paying each month.

 

I was thoughly disappointed that they were unable to supply / locate my original loan agreements and will consider following this up with a failed SAR letter.

 

Yes Dazza, its interesting that they have been proved to keep info that long, especially considering i have banked with them for over 20 years. In my credit card PPI covering letter I included:

 

"I appreciate that there are 21 months of statementsmissing from the records (March 2005 until December 2006). As these have notbeen included in my SAR request documentation and you are satisfied that you nolonger hold these records (either archived or on micro-fiche etc) and I no longerhave records dating back that far, that a reasonable assumption is made for the21 unknown months of PPI payments from the statements and amounts that areknown"

[Let Them Knock]

I am going through the same scenario with NatWest/RBS. Three consolidated loans - all PPI refunded. Credit card rejected PPI claim even though the cc and one loan were arranged at the same time with the same adviser.

 

My SAR took over 4 months to be fulfilled BUT it did include bank statements back to 1998 - so they do keep records that far back. Credit card statements only went back 6 years though.

 

Keep at them and good luck.

[gingerdave27]

I am going through the same scenario with NatWest/RBS. Three consolidated loans - all PPI refunded. Credit card rejected PPI claim even though the cc and one loan were arranged at the same time with the same adviser.

 

My SAR took over 4 months to be fulfilled BUT it did include bank statements back to 1998 - so they do keep records that far back. Credit card statements only went back 6 years though.

 

Keep at them and good luck.

 

Yes I will keep at them! I really would like the original credit agreements to enable my own calculations / spreadsheet.

 

Think ill give them until the end of this week and then continue with a failed sar letter.

[gingerdave27]

Well here is a turn up, was going to post my lba to Natwest today following my incomplete SAR, with one thing and another I didn't get to the Post Office. Got home tonight to find another Natwest envelope on the door mat, containing statements for all seven of my loans, including the first five with PPI.

 

I was completely shocked once I had worked out how much these loans have cost me over the past nine years!!!!!!

 

Now a question for IMS, the calculation guru! Please see attachment below:

 

Now that I have some basic loan information, loan amounts including PPI and interest, term of loan, monthly repayments, loan rebates and early repayments figures, Is it possible to reverse calculate the loan to separate out the PPI and PPI interest amounts from the total amounts known?

 

Then i could accurately calculate the PPI I have actually paid??

 

Also as an aside, the statement for my last loan with PPI (Loan five in the chain of seven) contains details of an Insurance Interest and an Insurance Rebate. I may have cancelled the PPI on this loan (but I do not remember doing so) so this would explain the rebate. However the following four repayments after this are for the same monthly repayment? I guess following a cancellation then they may have reduced the term rather than the monthly repayment figure?

 

Any thoughts guys n girls?

 

Ginge

[ims21]

Hi

 

This is a move forward. Just doing something at the mo but will grab a look later tonight for you.

[gingerdave27]

Thats great, thanks IMS, have added a scan of the loan five statement including the rebates for insurance in case you wanted to take a look

 

Ginge

[gingerdave27]

Oooooopps lol

 

Pressed submit reply before adding attachment lol

 

Should now be below

 

Ginge

[ims21]

Ok so you can now indeed work out what the position should be.

 

The easiest way to do this is concentrate on one loan at a time, starting with the earliest one.

 

You will need this spreadsheet

 

StatIntSheet v101.xls

 

Loan 1 was for a total of £4692, the PPI premium being £692. PPI is therefore 14.75% of the total (given by 692/4692 x 100). Your monthly repayment was £162.39 so 14.75% of that is for the PPI which is £23.95 per month.

 

In the spreadsheet, list the amounts of £23.95 for every repayment you actually made.

 

The settlement figure for this loan was £3907.58 and 14.75% of that was the PPI part of the loan (assuming no PPI rebate was given) which equals £576.37. This is the amount of PPI rolled into loan 2.

 

Loan 2 was for £12419 of which PPI was £2419. Loan 2 PPI was therefore 19.48% of the total. We also have £576.37 rolled from loan 1 and that represents a further 4.64% of loan 2 (given by 576.37/12419 x 100).

 

Your monthly repayment for loan 2 was £244.34. 19.48% of that is £47.60. List those amounts for each payment you actually made for loan 2. In addition, 4.64% of £244.34 is £11.34 and this is the amount of loan 1 PPI being paid via loan 2. List those amounts as well for each repayment you actually made.

 

Using these principles you should be able to work out the rollovers from loan 2 to 3, 3 to 4 and 4 to 5 bearing in mind that each loan will have PPI from all previous loans wrapped up in it as a percentage of the total loan.

 

If or when you get stuck...shout here.

[gingerdave27]

Hi IMS

 

Thanks for your reply. Will get busy with the calculator later!

 

The example of the first loan (total =£4692 ppi and loan amount) does not include the loan and ppi interest. As I have now worked out the total interest for each loan is there any way of separating the total interest into loan interest and ppi interest without knowing the apr figures for each loan?

 

I feel this would make my calculations more accurate.

 

Or am I just trying to complicate things and would a general, approximate calculation of ppi less interest be sufficient in giving me a ball park figure of what I have paid?

 

Ginge.

[ims21]

The monthly repayment you make includes both capital and interest. So if you apply the percentage to that monthly repayment you will be accounting for the contractual interest paid on the PPI part of the loan automatically.

[gingerdave27]

The monthly repayment you make includes both capital and interest. So if you apply the percentage to that monthly repayment you will be accounting for the contractual interest paid on the PPI part of the loan automatically.

 

That's great. Will begin to work that out tonight.

 

Thanks again for your helpful advice.

 

Ginge

[gingerdave27]

Well,

 

I've sat down tonight and done a spreadsheet with my roll over figures based on me getting no rebate at all each time the loan was refinanced.

 

I also included a rollover onto loan six which was the first with no actually ppi but would have had rollover from the previous five loans which did have ppi.

 

If I'm correct then it could be tidy windfall!

 

Lets see what Natwest say.......

[gingerdave27]

Hi all, quick update on the Natwest story, their 8 weeks is up on Monday and I came home today (7 weeks and 5 days since the complaint sent in) to find they have upheld my loan complaint and have sent me an offer ( Letter attached)

 

Just a few questions to set my mind at rest before I consider accepting.

 

1 - The offer letter states "as a gesture of goodwill and without any admission of liability" Now as they have had my complaint for almost their full allowed 8 weeks I would hope that they have correctly investigated and calculated their offer accordingly. However does the above statement agree with this or have they just tried the "here is some money now go away"?

 

2 - I would like to ask them for a full and detailed breakdown of how they arrived at their offer figure. Am I correct in saying that I am entitled to ask for this and it should have no affect on this "goodwill" offer?

 

3 - This was a chain of 7 loans, the first 5 having single premium, front loaded PPI, the last two had no PPI and the final "top-up" is still running. My calculations show that the offer figure is around the amount that I should recieve if all PPI rebates were applied correctly when each loan was re-financed, and no PPI was "rolled over" into the next loan, I hope that their figures should explain and clarify that this was the case.

 

4 - As the final top-up loan is still running and being paid for am I correct in saying that the total refund of PPI Premiums and associated interest can be off-set against the current outstanding balance but the 8% interest (Net interest after tax has been taken) should be paid directly to me? Or can they offset the whole refund offer against my current loan balance?

 

Their offer was a pleasant surprise to get in the post today and it will almost clear the outstanding loan balance, meaning I can be very almost debt free for the first time in a long time! I just would like to check with those in the know that it is a fair offer before I commit to accepting as they have used the phrase "the basis that such an offer is accepted in full and final settlement of all or any claims for my loan accounts with NatWest Bank"

Still awaiting a letter regarding my Credit Card PPI Complaint which was posted to, and acknowledged by NatWest on the same day as this Loan one, fingers crossed for that one too!!

 

Thanks in advance, Ginge

[dx100uk]

1, typical statement - means nowt.

2.yes you can

3. have you PROVED there WAS a ppi rebate by the statements?

4.you are correct, they cannot offset the 8% stat.

 

did we get to see your spread?

[gingerdave27]

Hi all,

 

Thanks to dx for your prompt reply to my last post.

 

I have spent the last couple of days going through all my SAR information and statements.

 

I have found I did indeed receive a PPI rebate each time the loan was refinanced (settled).

 

This figure equated to more than the Outstanding PPI balance at the time of each refinance

so one would assume that this was PPI rebate and an adjustment to the interest on each loan.

 

Also contained in the statement for the 5th loan was a considerable rebate for Insurance and Insurance Interest,

this ties into the date that I cancelled the PPI during the life of this loan,

so it seems that NatWest had taken this off the loan straight away.

 

All in I make my calcuations 12p different to their's so am satified everything has been calculated correctly.

 

On this basis I accepted their offer yesterday.

 

On an even better note, I returned home today to find NatWest's reply to my Credit Card PPI complaint awaiting me.

 

This has also been upheld, even though I (and NatWest by their own admission via SAR) only had the past 6 years statements,

they have correctly calculated an offer including average payments for the months unknown taken from the months that were known along with compound interest.

 

They have also included a refund of erroneous overlimit fees that were incurred during the time that PPI was applied to my card.

 

Their offer letter will be accepted and posted back first thing tomorrow!

 

Many thanks to everyone on this site who has assisted in this and kept me sane!

It just goes to show that anyone can reclaim their mis-sold PPI with some assistance and patience.

 

Thanks to this site I have now successfully reclaimed just short of 14,000 over the past 5 months.

Total cost to me?

Some time and around 40 in SAR and recorded postage costs.

 

Big donation coming once the funds have landed.

 

Ginge

[dx100uk]

ginge that's amazing!! £14k

 

dx

[maynie]

Wow, well done! Did they calculate your missing credit card statements using the average of the year following the missing statements or the average over the whole life of the card?