Mr. Osborne's next sick move.

[pitcher]

Let it be that state of manyhood bound and loathing. So with thy all; thou hast no right but to do thy will.

Hope that clears things up.

pitcher

[Guest]

...

Hope that clears things up.

pitcher

 

not really

[Conniff]

welfare may well be out of control, for whatever reason

 

but i will ask the question again

 

why are two government minister commenting on the unlawful killing of six kids, and bringing welfare into the conversation on national media

 

government do not comment on judicial procedure, that is left to the judges

 

And, pray, what give you the right to comment on it ?

[TheLion]

I don't understand why this thread has been moved. I don't see anything wrong with what has been posted, apart from when one of the site team wanted to completely ignore the headlines and context of Osborne' s statement and timing. By moving it you have taken away the right for legitimate discussion on a current and valid subject that effects the people.

 

Conniff, you have still not given a reply as to why the Tory' s decided to debate the welfare issue again following the Philpott verdict and not within the prior period that they have been in power. You know, like everyone, that they will use this to reduce child benefit and tax credits. I believe that there was an article in the Daily Hate to that effect.

 

I personally don't believe that I or the majority of posters on this thread have taken anything out of context. We are just commenting on a very sick headline, and a couple of very sick individuals, you know who you are Mr. C & Mr. O, who need another reason to hit the poor.

[postggj]

And, pray, what give you the right to comment on it ?

 

The right i have to comment is being on the voters roll, and exercising my democratic right to vote.

 

I have freedom of speech as long as my comments are within the law, and that i object to dehumanize a tragedy for political gains

 

My objections are pointed in the direction of Osbourne and Cameron trying to score cheap political points out of a human tragedy, for which the response by Cameron and Osbourne had no relevance to the Philpott situation

 

What pressing matters of state did the Philpott crime have to justify comments by two government ministers, then they go on to comment on a totally different political agenda, that being demonizing welfare

Edited April 7, 2013 by squaddie

[determindator]

I don't disagree with you. I just hate it when politicians draw similarities between criminals and regular claimants. It's exactly the same kind of spin as the skivers/strivers rubbish, just much more offensive!

 

It's another ploy to divide the nation. This is rather like when council houses were sold off, this gained many Tory votes and divided the nation. What many of the buyers didn't see was then was how they would get caught up in any int rate rises, ooo just remembered the 15% high:jaw: now the Government had real power over a lot of home owners.

Edited April 7, 2013 by determindator

[postggj]

This whole business of demonizing social security

(not government spin welfare) is offensive

 

so they say they want to reward the workers

 

well make the jobs for people to apply, who then pay tax, who then contribute to the economy. I mean real jobs that are not zero hour contract and minimum wage

 

it is not rocket science

[determindator]

Exactly. Causing people to rise up against each other conveniently averts the attention away from issues within the Government they'd rather you not know or discuss.

Edited April 7, 2013 by determindator

[Crazy Diamond]

so they say they want to reward the workers

 

 

Who believes that these days, if they ever did?

 

The 2 latest wheezes from this sharp shower are these:

 

- Part-time workers (low income, tax credits) to be made to report to job centre every so often to "see" if they could find something that pays better / has more hours, with the possibility of sanctions if they don't try to.

 

- People caught working whilst on benefit to get their wages stopped. Usually, one way to make things simpler all round (and cheaper for the DWP not having to prosecute unless they want to make an example) would be to make them sign off benefits and repay the money... This is so counter-intuitive it's unreal.

[Nystagmite]

Who believes that these days, if they ever did?

 

The 2 latest wheezes from this sharp shower are these:

 

- Part-time workers (low income, tax credits) to be made to report to job centre every so often to "see" if they could find something that pays better / has more hours, with the possibility of sanctions if they don't try to.

 

Anyone know what happens to those who can only work part time?

[ifhthsbdw]

Would this be treated the same if it was a working family? No, it would not!!!.

 

Given that Osborne is referring to a man who was not working, then the very, very obvious answer is "no".

[ifhthsbdw]

So, a year ago claimants were "skivers" rather than "strivers". Now they're child killers. Where do you go from here, Mr Osborne? Next year, I dunno - will they be responsible for genocide?

 

Wow, amazing hyperbole. Did Osborne actually say that, or is it a figment of your imagination? The truth is that Philpott is a killer and that he lived on welfare payments. Or do you disagree?

[postggj]

But why link the two for party political reasons

[ifhthsbdw]

This has to be brought up in parliament and Osborne must be made to explain himself.

 

He will have absolutely no problem explaining himself. Just read what he actually said, not what somebody else is implying from the words he actually said, and you will understand - if you are intelligent enough. I'm sure you are.

[ifhthsbdw]

Its a shame the Daily Fail never releases where it gets its figures from in all of its rantings

 

There are Lies, Dam lies, and Daily Mail Statistics

 

Not to mention people who give their own childish names to things they don't like.

[estellyn]

Wow, amazing hyperbole. Did Osborne actually say that, or is it a figment of your imagination? The truth is that Philpott is a killer and that he lived on welfare payments. Or do you disagree?

 

And Harold Shipman was a doctor, but it wasn't seen to be an indictment of all doctors - who are also funded by the taxpayer. What's your point?

[postggj]

My objections are pointed in the direction of Osbourne and Cameron trying to score cheap political points out of a human tragedy, for which the response by Cameron and Osbourne had no relevance to the Philpott situation

 

What pressing matters of state did the Philpott crime have to justify comments by two government ministers, then they go on to comment on a totally different political agenda, that being demonizing welfare

 

INSTEAD OF TRYING TO POINTS SCORE AGAINST EACH OTHER, JUST ANSWER MY QUESTION AND I WILL LEAVE THIS THREAD. IT DOES NOT MATTER WHO SAID WHAT. ITS THE WORDS THAT WERE SAID THAT'S THE ISSUE AND WHY THEY WERE SAID

[ifhthsbdw]

Hi jadeybags,

Since I logged on to CAG tonight, I've listened to a few UK talk radio stations. They are talking about nothing else and the majority of opinion seems to come down against darling George. I've stated my thoughts on the subject and I know others will but lets see what the media makes of it over the next few days.

regards pitcher

 

Well 67% are apparently in favour of the welfare changes, so you are very much in the minority.

[postggj]

well 67% are apparently in favour of the welfare changes, so you are very much in the minority.

 

well that poll was conducted by the sun, why not get murdoch next to do a poll

[ifhthsbdw]

Off topic I know, but the petition to get IDS to live on £53 per week stands at 432.564 supporters, getting on for half a million signers and rising by the minute.

 

The hubris of this man is staggering.

 

Do you know anything about the man and his struggles? Any ideas as to how he made a living when he left the Army? I suggest you do a little research and maybe then you will understand. He's one of the very few in either the government or opposition front benches who knows what life is really like.

[postggj]

do you know anything about the man and his struggles? Any ideas as to how he made a living when he left the army? I suggest you do a little research and maybe then you will understand. He's one of the very few in either the government or opposition front benches who knows what life is really like.

 

he was a boot boy for a major general in the army, then he was an arms dealer, GEC Marconi, Bellwing Property, and served on the board of Jane's Information Group and i forgot, he lied over what universities he studied at and his qualifications

 

a real upstanding individual

Edited April 7, 2013 by squaddie

[estellyn]

well that poll was conducted by the sun, why not get murdoch next to do a poll

 

Yes you really have to look at the source sample to understand the bias - one done of disabled people might be very biased in the opposite direction.

[ifhthsbdw]

The trouble is what happens when they push people to the point where they have nothing left to lose?

 

They finally get of their arses and start looking for work, that's what happens.

[estellyn]

Do you know anything about the man and his struggles? Any ideas as to how he made a living when he left the Army? I suggest you do a little research and maybe then you will understand. He's one of the very few in either the government or opposition front benches who knows what life is really like.

 

No, he thinks the height of deprivation is having to share a bathroom with strangers.

[estellyn]

They finally get of their arses and start looking for work, that's what happens.

 

OK, so there are 400,000 jobs at any one time, and 2,500,000 people without a job, and far more that are underemployed. Even if you put 400,000 unemployed people into the available jobs (assuming they had the skills and experience), where do the other 2,100,000 get their jobs from?

 

Edit to add: remember most of the current 400,000 vacancies are actually filled by people already in jobs, which means their jobs are then advertised. The months after you fill the 400,000 vacancies with uunemployed people, there will be much fewer vacancies after that.