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Welcome Finance secured loan - now sold to coast

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I would be grateful for any advice or if anyone can point me in the right direction.

 

I have a loan with Welcome finance, secured.

 

Lost my family busines of 20 years in 2009 and things have been a real struggle ever since and im certainly not out the woods.

 

All creditors have been kind and helpful apart from Welcome who have bullied me and really been nasty.

 

After a week of harrasment from them,

I folded and ended up on antidpressents.

 

Welcome told me i could not go bankrupt. (I now know different).

 

I got a copy of my loan agreement to find its almost completely unreadable,

I have been taking advice from moneysaingexpert which has been great (until last few days)

- gave me all the template letters to send with regards to a loan where the CCA is illegible.

 

I have sent these all to Welcome and they continue to send me these bad copies that you cant read the figures on.

 

Last week they posted me a reconstituted copy of the agreement

- with no signature, dates etc. Just the figures clearly.

(I dont have the agreement at all so I have no idea if these amounts are correct).

 

I went back to the site for further advice on this and it seems now that rather than people help the advisors are just saying why dont i just pay up,

dont run away from your debts etc - suggesting im looking at an easy way out.

 

Quite frankly I would love to wipe this debt

these people were the final straw when i was desperately trying to cling on

and which resulted in serious depression

and I dont want to have to deal with them again so yes i do want to wipe the debt if i can.

 

Im terrified of dealing with these people again.

 

I am being told now that a court ruling says that a reconstituted copy of an agreement is acceptable,

does anyone know did this court ruling happen recently?

 

Its just everyones advice seems to have all of a sudden changed from illegible loan agreement cant be enforced to now that it can.

 

Will a reconstituted copy stand up in court if Welcome take me to court.

 

Also on the reconstituted copy the figures show i borrowed 15k and that the total charge for credit is 29K..

Meaning the total amount payable is 44K.

 

This is hurrendous obvioulsy and i clearly did not check this before i signed the agreement otherwsie i would not have signed.

I was young and foolish i guess.

 

Any advice on Illegible Loan agreement, Harrassment (although it was all done by phone),

and unfair interest rates - anyone can give me i would be grateful.

 

I have scanned and attached

 

1. Bad copy they have posted me of the original agreement

2. Reconstitued copy received in the post recently

3. Statement of account

 

It looks as though an acceptance fee of £235.00 and a broker fee of £1500.00 has both been included in the oiriginal loan amount.

 

On the 'original' agreeement (although bit difficult to read properly) it shows the broker fee on the right of the agreement,

on the recon copy the broker fee has gone but the total amount borrowed is not £15000 but £16500.

 

On the last page of the statement of account (which is the beginning of the agreeement back in 2007) it shows;

 

first entry (14.2.07) - Loan Disbursement of £16735.00 (DEBIT)

second entry (14.2.07) - Fee Disbursement of £235.00 (CREDIT)

 

but then the total amount does not adjust accordingly with the credit. If you look at the statements that i have scanned and attached i hope you can see what i mean!

 

I have tried to google how to work out interest but i cannot work out if they have charged me interest on the acceptance fee or the broker fee

- if anyone can help here i would be really grateful

- i do not know what im doing here

- its complicated and the information on the agreements differs which i do not know is allowed either.

 

Also on the recon copy it does not mention that the loan is secured on the property.

Where it says 'secured on:______' - this section although completed with address on the 'original' is empty on the recon.

 

How can you trust a recon copy when the company is so untrustworthy.

 

Thank you for anyone that can help me!

 

this was Pre 2007, no i have not checked the calculations as I do not know how,

I can npost the agreement no problem i have a scanner, how do i post?

No it did not include PPI at least its not showing on the reconstituted copy anyway..

 

- the loan did not include PPI and the loan was taken out Feb 2007.

Figures are Amount of loan £15,000

Duration of agreement (minimum) 180 months

Monthly payment £235.00

Variable APR 19.50%

Total charge for credit £31,232.53

Interest charge £30,997.53

Rate of interest per annum : 19.10%

 

I have taken this info from the reconstituted copy that they have provided but this info seems to be different to that on the illegible agreement.

 

For starters on the illegible agreement there is a broker fee of £1500.00 - this is not shown on the recon copy.

 

Also the APR's are different and the total charge for credit is different.

 

my signature is on there

I will scan and upload the doc, do i just blot out my details from prying eyes?

 

- the agreement (the bad copy) is in the 1st post

 

- thank you again for your help

surrey36 all welcome docs .pdf

Edited by dx100uk
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Hi

Was this a pre 2007 agreement.

 

Have you had the agrement checked re Total charge for credit and total credit calculations, welcome where notoriously bad at getting these right in their earlier agrements, you wuld have to either provide the figurres or npost the agrement up for us to check for you

 

Did this include PPI? Where there any setting up fees and where these include in the Tcc or the total credit figure?

Peter


VT against welcome finance costs returned

Refund against jetline travel

Caital one settled 6th November

N1 Filed Yorkshire Bank 26/09/06

£677+£172int.+£80Chgs acknowledgemment of claim recieved 29th/09,Defence recieved 27th October Recieved AO 30t hOctt Settled in Full 8th December

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Hi Surrey

 

Heres some useful info, not too much that comes from the OFT is useful:-

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/OFT1272.pdf


Welcome to Consumer Action Group

 

'Challenges are what makes life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful.'

Joshua J. Marine

 

1) CLAIM BACK ALL PENALTY CHARGES CLICK HERE

2) CLAIM BACK ALL MIS-SOLD PPI CLICK HERE

3) COMPOUNDED CONTRACTUAL INTEREST CLICK HERE

4) REQUEST CCA FROM CREDITOR CLICK HERE

5) OFT- UNENFORCEABLE AGREEMENTS CLICK HERE

6) CAREY V HSBC (2009) CLICK HERE

7) DON'T BE BULLIED BY CREDITORS / DCA's CLICK HERE

8) IN DEBT DON'T PANIC CLICK HERE

9) FULL AND FINAL SETTLEMENT CLICK HERE

10) SALE OF GOODS ACT-EDUCATE YOUR RETAILER CLICK HERE

11) DISTANCE SELLING-EDUCATE YOR RETAILERCLICK HERE

12) SOGA SUMMARY CLICK HERE

13) WHICH? TEMPLATES [/url]CLICK HERE

14) DOES YOU BANK TREAT YOU FAIRLY BCOBSCLICK HERE

15) EVERYTHING HOUSING CLICK HERE

16) UTILITY BACKBILLING CLICK HERE

17) OFGEM - COMPLAINTSCLICK HERE

18) OFCOM - COMPLAINTS CLICK HERE

DON'T GIVE UP, THIS SITE WILL PROVIDE YOU WITH GUIDANCE AND EMPOWERMENT

 

Don't forget to donate to this site

 

Please let us know how your problem has been resolved, it could help fellow Caggers

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Hi

 

Does the orriginal have your signature on it.

How ilegible is it can you make out the figures and put them on here,

APR TCC TC particularily the fee or any other fees, are the charges itemised as part of the TCC or where they part of the total credit.

 

Peter


VT against welcome finance costs returned

Refund against jetline travel

Caital one settled 6th November

N1 Filed Yorkshire Bank 26/09/06

£677+£172int.+£80Chgs acknowledgemment of claim recieved 29th/09,Defence recieved 27th October Recieved AO 30t hOctt Settled in Full 8th December

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Make sure you read this thread if you haven't seen it yet

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?296880-Welcome-Finance-IMPORTANT-FOR-ALL-THOSE-WITH-WELCOME-PPI-COMPLAINTS

 

DadofHolly seems to know his stuff. Why not send him a Private Message to come and look. this is a thread he is active on.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?285471-60-yr-old-Auntie-needs-your-help-with-welcome-finance


If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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Hi silverfox

- that certainly all looks interesting.

they have obvioulsy wrongly sold PPI to an awful lot of people.

 

I dont even know if i have paid ppi

- it does not say it on the copy agreement

but i can see alot of threads saying sometimes it doesnt but then its included anyway.

 

I have found statement of account this afternoon which im going to scan and upload in a moment, im assuming the more info the better!

 

THAKNYOU for all your help

- the second thread sounds very similar to my situation

 

I have scanned and attached in post 1 everything

 

1. Bad copy they have posted me of the original agreement

2. Reconstitued copy received in the post recently

3. Statement of account

 

It looks as though an acceptance fee of £235.00 and a broker fee of £1500.00 has both been included in the oiriginal loan amount.

 

On the 'original' agreeement (although bit difficult to read properly) is shows the broker fee on the right of the agreement, on the recon copy the broker fee has gone but the total amount borrowed is not £15000 but £16500.

 

On the last page of the statement of account (which is the beginning of the agreeement back in 2007) it shows;

 

first entry (14.2.07) - Loan Disbursement of £16735.00 (DEBIT)

second entry (14.2.07) - Fee Disbursement of £235.00 (CREDIT)

 

but then the total amount does not adjust accordingly with the credit.

If you look at the statements that i have scanned and attached i hope you can see what i mean!

 

I have tried to google how to work out interest but i cannot work out if they have charged me interest on the acceptance fee or the broker fee

- if anyone can help here i would be really grateful

- i do not know what im doing here

- its complicated and the information on the agreements differs which i do not know is allowed either.

 

Also on the recon copy it does not mention that the loan is secured on the property.

Where it says 'secured on:______' - this section although completed with address on the 'original' is empty on the recon.

How can you trust a recon copy when the company is so untrustworthy.

 

Thank you for anyone that can help me!

Edited by dx100uk
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Hi Surrey

 

I will have a look at your agreements and come back to you on them soon. In mean time can you answer a couple of questions for me.

 

Are you dealing with the local branch or the head office? (dont deal with local branch).

 

If you are being harrassed by phone calls send the telephone harrassment letter on the link below.

 

Send it to their head office, and a copy to the local office if they are ringing you to.

 

Refuse to speak to them on the phone. You already realise they will lie to you. DONT SIGN it just print your name.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?493-Harassment-by-telephone-response-letter

 

You say the original had a brokers fee included.

Did you arrange the loan via a broker?

Who was the Broker?

Did they explain that the broker would receive a commission?

 

Was their any insurances taken out - such as PPI etc?

Did they do a questionnaire with you to decide if the insurances were suitable for your needs?

 

Have they sent you a copy of the terms and conditions with the agreement?

 

Have you ever made a statutory access request with welcome?

 

Sorry for lot of questions - will give me beter idea of where we are at with this.


The Banks lend you Credit that is created out of nothing - FACT.

 

Only 3% of the Money in the Uk is in the form of notes and coins - the rest is created by banks as debts - numbers on computers - nothing more.

 

Money should be our servant - not our master - Its Time to reform the Banking system

 

For more info on how banks create loans from nothing - The problems of our debt based economy - and what the solution is - look here

 

 

Further Reading and articles on our debt based economy found here

 

http://prosperityuk.com/

 

The campaign for this reform is backed by a group of economists, lawyers, engineers, former civil servants, university academics and business people as well as the public.

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no problem... I dont mind im just grateful for your time..

 

No I have never made a SAR with them

 

It is going back some time and I had some serious problems when i took the loan out

and so its difficult to remeber some details but i dont recall taking out ppi with them

 

- i never took ppi out with any loan/credit card etc.

I dont recall a questionaire.

 

I did go through a broker yes,

i seem to recall it being 'yes' loans. I think!

 

I cannot remember if they explained about commision but im sure i would have noticed the broker fee at the time.

 

I have not spoken to them since last July

- everthing was in writing

- i had to as on the phone they were awful.

 

So all letters i have sent have yes been to head office (it was the local branch that i had trouble with - harrasment wise!)

they sent me a recon copy of T & C's shall i scan and upload?

 

thanks for your help.....

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Not yet.

 

will PM you about the T&C's once ive had chance to go through the agreement for you.

 

Have welcome been in contact with you recentley in an attempt to collect?


The Banks lend you Credit that is created out of nothing - FACT.

 

Only 3% of the Money in the Uk is in the form of notes and coins - the rest is created by banks as debts - numbers on computers - nothing more.

 

Money should be our servant - not our master - Its Time to reform the Banking system

 

For more info on how banks create loans from nothing - The problems of our debt based economy - and what the solution is - look here

 

 

Further Reading and articles on our debt based economy found here

 

http://prosperityuk.com/

 

The campaign for this reform is backed by a group of economists, lawyers, engineers, former civil servants, university academics and business people as well as the public.

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Hello Dadofholly,

the most recent communication i had from them was the reconstituted copy which came through at the end of jan.

 

Since last July I have sent several letters asking them for a legible copy of the agreement and they kept sending me this very bad copy.

 

Last letter i sent them (was a templated letter from another site) saying that the loan was unenforeable becuase the agreement was illegible.

 

Since that letter they have sent further bad copies and then most recent the reconstitutued copy but otherwise no contact from them at all. No phone calls either

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Got your PM

 

I know very little about Welcome agreements but from looking at the original and the reconstruction, things obviously don't match.

 

Your original is for 15k and the recon is for 16.5k. On the original it has a broker fee of 1.5k whereas on the recon it is included in the principle sum.

 

I think (but not sure) that the fees should be kept separate and you are being charged interest on them. Is that allowed??

 

I'll PM Post and see if he will have a peek for us.


If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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Hi

Just had a look at your agreement.

I am afraid it seems to check out.

180 payments @ 265.18 = 47732.4 (total amount payable TAP)

TAP 47732.4 - Credit £15000 = £32732.4 (Total charge or credit TCC)

Your fees are correctly identified as part of the TCC

APR 22.1%

Peter


VT against welcome finance costs returned

Refund against jetline travel

Caital one settled 6th November

N1 Filed Yorkshire Bank 26/09/06

£677+£172int.+£80Chgs acknowledgemment of claim recieved 29th/09,Defence recieved 27th October Recieved AO 30t hOctt Settled in Full 8th December

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I have read on some other posts that an agreement should show the total amount repayable i.e £47K

 

as far as you tell there is nothing wrong with the agreement, they do not appear to have charged interest on the feeds?

 

I wonder where i should go from here - contact them or wait to hear from them!

 

I attempt to handle arrangements myself but not paid anything towards this one since july last year

- so no arrangement currently in place for this one!

Edited by dx100uk
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Thanks Pete I appreciate yout time andhelp

I have read on some other posts that an agreement should show the total amount repayable i.e £47K

So basically as far as you tell there is nothing wrong with the agreement, they do not appear to have charged interest on the feeds?

thanks again

 

HI

No the TAP is not a prescribed term so they do not need to show it.

If they had included the fee in the credit (charged interest on it) the APR would not check out unortunately it does, wish i had better news

 

Peter


VT against welcome finance costs returned

Refund against jetline travel

Caital one settled 6th November

N1 Filed Yorkshire Bank 26/09/06

£677+£172int.+£80Chgs acknowledgemment of claim recieved 29th/09,Defence recieved 27th October Recieved AO 30t hOctt Settled in Full 8th December

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HI

Do you handle your loan arrangements yoursel or do you use a DMC.

 

Peter


VT against welcome finance costs returned

Refund against jetline travel

Caital one settled 6th November

N1 Filed Yorkshire Bank 26/09/06

£677+£172int.+£80Chgs acknowledgemment of claim recieved 29th/09,Defence recieved 27th October Recieved AO 30t hOctt Settled in Full 8th December

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having been through the figures they do add up and interest is correct.

 

There is no PPI on the agreement either.

 

That said it would be worth sending an SAR request to welcome.

Be intersting to see their statement of price.

 

I have come accross a couple of agreements where the statement of price calculations show that either the agreement APR is mis-stated or they have made a secret profit

- it's to do with their arrangement fee.

Must emphasise though it's not like that for all of their agreements, only a few.

 

May also be worth sending an SAR to the broker

- Again have come accross situations where an undeclared commission has been paid to the broker.

 

Even though they show a brokers fee on your agreement there can be other payments made.


The Banks lend you Credit that is created out of nothing - FACT.

 

Only 3% of the Money in the Uk is in the form of notes and coins - the rest is created by banks as debts - numbers on computers - nothing more.

 

Money should be our servant - not our master - Its Time to reform the Banking system

 

For more info on how banks create loans from nothing - The problems of our debt based economy - and what the solution is - look here

 

 

Further Reading and articles on our debt based economy found here

 

http://prosperityuk.com/

 

The campaign for this reform is backed by a group of economists, lawyers, engineers, former civil servants, university academics and business people as well as the public.

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hi Peter I attempt to handle arrangements myself but not paid anything towards this one since july last year - so no arrangement currently in place for this one!

 

Hi

A good thing about usung a DMC of couse it that they take the heat or you.

 

MBNA have just got a huge fine from the OFT for trying to bypass the authorised agent and if you are suffering from harresment it may be an answer see Sequencies excellant bloggs or more info.

 

The problem with trying to countercalim using secret commision is that you would have to prove that Welcome had a fiduciary duty to you as your agent,withou an agreement stating just that i think there may be problems.I am not aware of this being successul avenue before.

 

Peter

 

Peter


VT against welcome finance costs returned

Refund against jetline travel

Caital one settled 6th November

N1 Filed Yorkshire Bank 26/09/06

£677+£172int.+£80Chgs acknowledgemment of claim recieved 29th/09,Defence recieved 27th October Recieved AO 30t hOctt Settled in Full 8th December

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It is the broker that owes the fiducary duty and welcome would be the party guilty of paying the inducement.

As in the case of Hurstanger v Wilson


The Banks lend you Credit that is created out of nothing - FACT.

 

Only 3% of the Money in the Uk is in the form of notes and coins - the rest is created by banks as debts - numbers on computers - nothing more.

 

Money should be our servant - not our master - Its Time to reform the Banking system

 

For more info on how banks create loans from nothing - The problems of our debt based economy - and what the solution is - look here

 

 

Further Reading and articles on our debt based economy found here

 

http://prosperityuk.com/

 

The campaign for this reform is backed by a group of economists, lawyers, engineers, former civil servants, university academics and business people as well as the public.

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It is the broker that owes the fiducary duty and welcome would be the party guilty of paying the inducement. As in the case of Hurstanger v Wilson

 

Hi

 

We really have been over all this before it is not a simple as that i am affraid, proving fiduciarry duty is not just amatter of saying that the person who signed you up is your broker it is over on the welcome thread somwhere

 

Peter


VT against welcome finance costs returned

Refund against jetline travel

Caital one settled 6th November

N1 Filed Yorkshire Bank 26/09/06

£677+£172int.+£80Chgs acknowledgemment of claim recieved 29th/09,Defence recieved 27th October Recieved AO 30t hOctt Settled in Full 8th December

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VT against welcome finance costs returned

Refund against jetline travel

Caital one settled 6th November

N1 Filed Yorkshire Bank 26/09/06

£677+£172int.+£80Chgs acknowledgemment of claim recieved 29th/09,Defence recieved 27th October Recieved AO 30t hOctt Settled in Full 8th December

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im not sure i completely understand,

i have read through the information above and tried but im a bit lost.

 

Have followed the link and read through that section but not understanding.

 

I have sent off SAR request anyway, just in case it flags up something.

I will scan and upload when it comes through.

Thank you for your time and advice.

 

Just had a letter from Welcome saying they 'acknowledge my SAR request and are processing'

 

Hopefully have something through soon , was not expecting to hear back from them so quickly must admit,

it usually taken them a while to come back to me with the 'cca's'

 

I have received the SAR reply from WFS - its a pretty big pile of documents - what am I looking for?

 

Does anyone know

- is it the statement of price that i need to look at

- I have searched through lots of threads and trying to fathom out what info i need from this pile of docs,

im just not sure what im looking for in this lot!

 

I have scanned and uploaded the statement of price and added it to my docs pdf in the first post

 

If anyone is able to look and see if there is anything untoward i would be extremely grtaeful. I understand that occasionally Welcome have done something unlawful with arrangement fees. Is this the case with me?

 

Today I received a 'final Demand' from Lewis Debt Recovery (having not heard anything from Welcome (apart from the SAR request and copy agreements) from some time).

 

They have requested a payment of around £20k by the 17th May.

Needless to say i am panicking and terrified of ringng these people in the fear that the will treat me as welcome did with all sorts of threats and visits to come an take things away

- or me to the cash point to draw out anythng i have.

 

If any of you experts out there can help me with this i would be grateful.

I really dont want to pick up the phone.

 

I litterally am really panicking about doing that becuase what happened all the times before that i spoke to them.

They really were absolutely horrible, laughing at me on the phone when they put in me in tears and telling me tears would not pay the debt and to sort myself out in really a very nasty way.

 

I have spent hours reading through threads on here on welcome and one thing i noticed is something about the 14 day cooling off period.

I signed the agreeement on 8.2.07 and according to the statement of account the funds disbursement date was 14.02.07 - thats only 6 days.

Does that mean that they did something illegal by rushing the loan through?

 

from what i have been advised it is possible acceptance fees/broker fees that i am looking for being incorrect.

 

I have scanned the doc if anyone can help me i would be grateful.

 

I understand that Welcome often got these wrong and these charges could be unlawful and Im trying to find out if this is the case with me.

 

I have a final demand from Lewis Debt recovery today for £20k payable by tomorrow and so Im paniking like hell.

 

These guys scare the hell out of me as they put me in a very bad place before.

 

I just want to try and find out if i might have a case against welcome for this secured loan or the professional opionion

from someone on my best next step as in financial hardship on how to deal with the Lewis Debt Recovery company

 

- does anyone know are they actually welcome finance employees?

 

Thank you for any help I have already will continue to donate to this site

Edited by dx100uk
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ignore lewis

 

they have no legal powers to do anything to you.

 

i'd ping postggj or peter

 

i have tidied this thread also and put all your doc in the PDF inpost 1

 

dx


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

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thank you so much dx

Edited by dx100uk
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Hi Surrey,

 

So sorry to hear about your troubles with Welscum.

 

Do not be intimidated by them.

 

Stay strong and tell everyone you will only communicate in writing.

 

Postggj is brilliant at advice re Welcome. Yes, dx meant for you to 'private message' him.

 

Postggj helped me so much in overturning a CCJ given to us by Welscum.

 

Good luck to you and hopefully you will get some more good advice soon!

 

Pru

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thanks Pru! Kind of you to send this message,

 

I wake up in the middle of the night worrying about this and at 8 months pregnant thats not a good thing!

 

I really appreciate your message doing best to stay strong and not let them get the better of me! (although have to say its not easy ..)

 

thanks again and best wished to you! :o)

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