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    • Welcome to the Forum. The PCN must be subject to Bye laws as the warning near the bottom of the PCN does not comply with the protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4 Under Section 9 [2][f[] of the Act it should say: (f)warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given— (i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full, and (ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver ,the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid; Their version states they are pursuing you as the driver [because of the Bye laws they cannot transfer the liability from the driver to the keeper] even though you are the keeper. Should it go to Court Judges do not accept that the driver and the keeper are the same person. Obviously on many occasions another member of the family may be driving instead of the keeper. Indeed anyone with a valid motor insurance policy is able to drive your car. if any of the three cars were not driven by the keeper they are not liable to pay the PCN only the driver is.  as long as they do not divulge who was driving those lovely people at Alliance haven't a hope of winning against them in Court. What a shame. However while those keepers who were not driving are in the clear all is not lost for the other keeper drivers. Alliance still have to prove who was driving which is difficult providing those keepers do not appeal.  It is quite often that on appeal the keeper may say "I entered the car park at....."  immediately giving away that they were the driver. Plus even if you appeal it won't be accepted as a] they lose £100 straight away and b] mostly all the major car parking companies are dishonest scrotes. In the meantime you will be on the receiving end of threatening letters from Alliance, unregulated debt collectors and fifth, sixth or even lower rated solicitors all trying to frighten the life out of you to cough up. They can all be safely ignored since if you don't contact any of them they don't know who was driving so have no information that the can use in Court to identify the driver. Some time in the future they may send you a Letter of Claim which must not be ignored. Just let us know and we will advise a suitable snotty letter to send them which will show that you are not afraid of them and are happy to turn up in court knowing that you will win. Sorry it was a bit long winded.  
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Vodafone and C J Garland - Advice Needed

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I am a newbie seeking advice!!!


In 2009 I had a second line contract SIM card stolen which resulted in a bill of 1500 pounds.


The SIM was used 24 hrs a day 7 days a week for 3 weeks to make premium rate phone calls.


I was a victim of organised crime if you like.


I disputed this fact with Vodafone but obviously through the contract stipulations untill that SIM card was cancelled any costs inccured I was liable for.


I went through the motions of trying to dispute it with no success and the debt was then sold on to C J Garland.


I was unemployed at the time and started to pay C J Garland 50 a month.


I paid about 100 of the debt and then could not afford to keep paying so I stopped the standing order.


I tried to contact C J Garland to explain my circumstance to no avail because they had gone into administration!


Since 2009 I have not had any requests for the debt to be paid to C J Garland.


Looking at my credit report recently I realised It states I have defaulted which of course I have, but also I still owe VODAFONE 1500 pounds.


I dont actually owe VODAFONE the money but C J Garland.


Is it possible to have the debt written off?


Also is it possible to have my credit report changed because I dont owe Vodafone the Money anymore?


Any answers or ideas on what to do would be most grateful


Kind Regards



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Why did you make 2 payments if you didnt make the calls?

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..



If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks


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As i stated you are liable for the sim card regardless if it gets stolen untill you cancel it, its in the contract. Obviously having some kind of block on usage would of avoided my situation. I had to start paying to keep the bailifs away from my parents house.

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what bailiffs?


who said that?


total bowlarks.


looks like they were/are trying to fleece you.


if voda sold the debt

then they know its dodgy.


can I suggest you contact LEE please

follow below:

We thought it would be nice to introduce ourselves and to assure you all that our presence on CAG is with the very best of intentions.


vodafone UK has recently introduced a dedicated Web Relations Team which is keen to seek out customers who’re having difficulties with their accounts and feel that they have no other place to turn to than CAG and other consumer forums and blogs.


Naturally, it’s not possible for us to help directly with account specific queries on CAG and as such we would encourage those members who feel we can help them to contact us privately at [email protected] quoting ‘WRT135 – CAG Forum’ in the subject line.


When emailing us we would also ask that you either provide us with a link to your post or thread – if you’ve posted in another member’s thread please also provide your CAG username so that we can check what your query is.

****Also you will get an auto reply number. Post the number you get back this thread ***


Many thanks


Web Relations Team

Vodafone UK.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I know the debt is morally bollocks!!! but from a legal point of view you are responsible for the SIM card. There should be a system like with credit cards. When unusual usage begins the card is blocked and they contact you to make sure you are the one making the calls.


It was obvious it wasnt a human making the calls, 24hrs a day 7 days a week for 3 weeks? what human can do that?!!!! they jacked it up to a computer.

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I know the debt is morally bollocks!!! but from a legal point of view you are responsible for the SIM card. There should be a system like with credit cards. When unusual usage begins the card is blocked and they contact you to make sure you are the one making the calls.


It was obvious it wasnt a human making the calls, 24hrs a day 7 days a week for 3 weeks? what human can do that?!!!! they jacked it up to a computer.


who says its legal?


the provider has to abide by industry guidelines.


you are not responsible for the bill

it was fraud.


that's why it was sold by voda


just needs to be written off and removed fromyour crafile.


I take it, this is the real reason..

you need a clean cra file?



please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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ok lets see what lee says


post that ref number up here so lee can match it to your thread



please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Just got back an update from Lee and unfortunately the debt is still with Vodafone. 1427 pounds. As mentioned before there stance is that I am liable and legally this is true as I mentioned before, and which is stated in the article I read on the net pasted below.


At the time back in 2010 Voda did off a 10% reduction of the bill but at the time and still to this day I refused it, because I am going to dispute it again.


Apart from the telecom ombudsman, who else is there I can bring this attention to?


This thing seems to be getting common and alot of people are getting fleeced,








Love Money website


What really happens when your mobile phone is stolen - Love Money website


by Emma Lunn on 01 July 2012 | 12 comments


If your mobile phone is stolen, in many cases you are hit with a bill of thousands of pounds for fraudulent calls. But who are the thieves calling? And why?


Having your mobile stolen is stressful enough. Firstly you’re without a phone and uncontactable. Secondly you have to go through the rigmarole of calling your network, getting your SIM cancelled and arranging a replacement.

However the real sting in the tail comes when you get your next bill and it turns out thieves have used your phone to ring premium rate phone lines anywhere from Algeria to Mexico, landing you with a bill of thousands of pounds.

For a long time I rather naively thought the thieves were calling their mums back in their home countries – but the truth is a lot more sinister than that.

Premium rate and profit share

The mobile phone thieves who nick your phone from your bag in the pub are part of much bigger organised gangs.

The gangs rent premium rate telephone numbers around the world and, after they’ve stolen your phone, use it to call them. These numbers can cost anything from £1 to £10 a minute to call.

Because premium numbers share revenue between the provider and the person who purchases them, the fraudsters can generate significant revenues by keeping your phone connected to their own premium rate number.

So, the premium rate number provider profits from the theft, the thief does, and so does your mobile network which bills you for the calls.

Liability for calls

If you’re on a monthly contract there is generally no cap on the bill you can run up each month. Contracts state that you’re responsible for all the calls made on your phone until the phone is reported as lost or stolen. So if you lose your phone on a night out but don’t report it lost until the next day, you’ll be liable for the calls made all night.

Thieves tend to act quickly – they’ll start calling premium rate numbers the moment they steal your phone. This means that people who leave it only a few hours or a day to report their phone stolen can still face a massive bill.

Mobile phone insurance won’t protect you either. The small print of policies says the insurance will only kick in once you’ve reported the phone’s theft. So although it may pay out for a new handset, you’ll be left footing the bill for fraudulent calls.

Mobile phone networks

So, what are the networks doing about this [problem]? Well, nothing. Why would they when it’s such as nice money spinner for them?

Critics have repeatedly asked UK mobile networks why they don’t immediately spot fraudulent activity on a mobile phone account. After all, if you usually only use your phone to call landlines and mobiles in the UK and never exceed your monthly minutes allowance, surely a bill of £5,000 calling premium rate lines in Eastern Europe would arouse suspicions?

Unfortunately mobile phone firms are under no legal obligation to inform customers when they inadvertently run up high bills.

This lack of protection compares unfavourably with banks and credit card providers who have a legal duty to protect customers from fraud under the Consumer Credit Act. Banks have processes in place which alert them to suspicious activity on an account and then either the customer is contacted or card cancelled. Mobile phone companies have no such system.

Credit limits

Some networks, such as Virgin Mobile, do allow customers to have a credit limit on their account but, worryingly, this doesn’t necessarily protect you.

The networks themselves say that these limits can’t be relied upon and don’t work abroad. They claim this is because there is a technical delay – of several days – in foreign networks reporting usage back to the billing network in the UK.

This, of course, begs the question of how pay-as-you-go (PAYG) phones work? If you use a PAYG phone abroad and run out of credit you won’t be able to make any more calls.

A cynic might say that as mobile networks are raking in profit from phone theft, they have no interest in protecting customers who fall victim to this type of crime.

But, then, I’m just a cynic.

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Check out this recent example last week, 21000 grand with vodafone but they waived the charges!!!



Recruitment worker, 23, left with £21,000 phone bill after thief uses stolen mobile on premium rate spending spree

Georgia Harris's phone was stolen in Barcelona on day she left for the UK

Discovered theft when she landed at Gatwick Airport and blocked phone

In just a few hours the thieves made international calls for over £21,000

After investigating the case Vodafone agreed to waive all charges


PUBLISHED: 12:02, 25 March 2013 | UPDATED: 18:31, 25 March 2013

Comments (221)




Expensive holiday: Georgia Harris' phone was stolen in Barcelona and while she was in the air on her way back to Britain the thieves racked up a £21,000 bill

A recruitment worker whose phone was stolen while she was on holiday is facing a £21,000 bill.

Georgia Harris racked up the huge bill after her mobile was taken and then used to make premium rate international calls.

The 23-year-old realised her phone had been taken when she arrived back in Britain after a trip to Barcelona.

She lost her phone in the morning and the thief only took a few hours while she was in the air to rack up the staggering bill.

As soon as Miss Harris realised her Samsung Galaxy had been stolen, she immediately called police and her phone company to report the theft and visited a store a few hours later to pick up a replacement.

She discovered the thief’s abuse of her account when Vodafone staff informed her that it had been suspended for ‘suspicious activity’.

They revealed her service had been stopped when the bill totalled £21,183.82.

Records show the thief had used the phone for several conference calls to premium rate international numbers from 7.52am on the day it was lost.

Miss Harris, from Worthing, West Sussex, arrived at Gatwick Airport a few hours later, following a holiday in Barcelona to celebrate a friend's birthday, at around 1pm, reporting the theft shortly after.

She said: ‘I went into the store to pick up my replacement phone and the customer assistant told me that the phone had been locked.

‘He looked at the account further and his mouth dropped open. I thought that someone might have used the phone and racked up a bill of hundreds of pounds.



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‘But then he said it was £21,000. I just couldn't believe it. I phoned Vodafone and they kept saying that I was liable to the point when I reported it stolen.

‘I didn't realise it was stolen until I reached Gatwick. They kept talking about payment plans. It is such a lot of money.

‘I didn't think it was possible to run up such a huge bill. It is the size of a house deposit.’

Miss Harris was shocked when Vodafone customer services insisted that she was responsible for the bill, saying the company should have suspended the account earlier.

‘A couple of hundreds of pounds maybe, or a thousand, but £21,000 is crazy.


High fees: Georgia's Samsung Galaxy was used to make premium rate international conference calls

‘I just can't believe they didn't suspend the account when it began running into thousands of pounds.

Vodafone said that because I was abroad, it didn't show up on my bill for 24 hours. I find it hard that a global company in an age where everything is instant can say that.

‘I shouldn't have to pay for their computer system not updating.’

Vodafone initially offered to reduce Miss Harris' bill by £1,500 as a ‘goodwill gesture’ - leaving her to pay more than £19,500, but after investigation a the company said that all fees to her account will be waived.

A spokesman said: ‘This is a very unusual case. Normally, the customer is liable for any charges up to the point they report their phone lost or stolen.

‘However, this phone seems to have been used as part of a deliberate and organised crime which we will be investigating.

‘In this case, we will waive all of the charges raised by this fraud.

‘It's worth remembering how important it is to keep your phone safe, and get in touch with us as soon as you suspect it's missing.’

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