JP Morgan/Rooftop Arrears fees- The saga continues.

[Conniff]

Thanks Ellenn you are truly an angel.

 

One more question, my wife isn't really looking forward to going into court as she has friends who work there. Can I attend on behalf of us both.

 

Just a little support for you jotty. In case you are unaware, this isn't held in a proper court, you sit in a little office with only the judge and one person representing the mortgage company. It is very informal with you sitting around a table.

 

As Crapstone has said, you should both attend if at all possible and you will leave saying to each other 'that wasn't as bad as I thought'. If you can show that you can afford the payments and an amount to clear the arrears, there is no way the judge will allow them possession.

 

Just remember, the judge is just as human as you are.

[Desperate Daniella]

Jotty,

 

Just another word of support. You really are doing a good job on these repayments - far more than so many people who have been allowed to stay in their homes - including me. I had much larger arrears and just managed to scrape together £500 a week before the hearing. As Conniff says, judges are human and I really don't think they want to throw people out just for the hell of it.

 

DDxxxx

[jotty]

Getting close now but still very very worried .

Had the solicitor's evidence delivered this morning and although it shows the arrears going down it still makes scary reading.

[jotty]

Update, the hearing lasted 5 mins, nothing at all to worry about inreality. I spoke with the other sides solicitor prior to the hearing and agreed to pay £150 per month off the arrears.

The Judge accepted this and did state, that if we had further problems because of the suspended order we should not automatically think that we would lose the house.All felt a little pre determined if I am honest.

 

What was shocking was the number of people at the county court with worse cases than mine. Majority where hard working couples who had fallen foul of these mortgage companies and now faced losing it all.

The country is in a worse financial state than any politician will admit.

 

Thanks to all for support especially Ell-enn

[Ell-enn]

Hi Jotty, that's great news - well done for being so brave!

 

It's sad to hear how many were at the court for repossession hearings though and how many of them had no idea about CAG or how to present their case.

[jotty]

Could not have done it without your support.

 

Yes it was a very sad place and without doubt we on CAG are not alone but are very fortunate to have people who care about our plight., I went dressed in a suit and tie and a couple in their early 50's asked if I was a solicitor. I said no but the lady was very upset and afraid. Thankfully I had noted the CAB people on the way in so took them both to speak with them. Hope I managed to help in my own way.

Edited November 19, 2022 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[Ell-enn]

Well done Jotty, that was a kind thing to do - hopefully the CAB advisor would go into the courtroom with them.

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi Jotty,

 

I have only just read your update. I am so pleased that it went well for you and that the judge was obviously reasonable and concerned for you.

 

I am sure you'll be sleeping better this week.

 

DDxxx

[jotty]

We currently have arrears on our mortgage of £1000, at the moment I am clearing them at £50 per month.

 

When we took out the mortgage in 2007 our paydays where the 15th,

this changed in 2008 to the 25th so I wrote to the company concerned and explained that we needed to change, they agreed but said that the mortgage would always be shown as in arrears for the 10day gap.

 

They also charge £40 per month in "late payment fees".

Having asked for a breakdown of costs I also not there are a number of "agents fees" which I presume means home visits of £60 none of which where agreed to and no one spoken to.

It also shows "solicitors fees" for various letters etc.

 

Having been succesful during the bank charge days, can we still claim for these fees in the same way or have the mortgage companies wised up as well now.

Edited January 15, 2019 by dx100uk
spacing

[jotty]

We have had a mortgage with JP MORGAN for some years and current arrears are £1600 on a balance of £165,000.

 

We have been overpaying by £50 pm for some time without any issues apart from the odd pre printed letter from them mainly as they forgot that they had agreed to payments being made on the 1st not the 15th of the month so it appears to their untrained eye that we are further in arrears every month for 2 weeks till the payment is made.

 

No they have transferred us to Rooftop which filled me with a little dread and low and behold within a month they are threatening possession unless the arrears are cleared etc. This we can deal with but it hacks me off when we have been overpaying even slightly for a long time now without the need for this threat and suddenly change of company = change of attitude.

 

The eye watering bit was they also mention something called "Monthly Insurance Charge" of £37 and "Arrears Management fee" £40 on a separate statement going back to 2008 which totals over £4000. Thye have quite conveniently now added that to the arrears figure to make it look a lot worse albeit in a separate paragraph.

 

So can anyone comment please on the charges and if we need to worry, and also anything we can do to calm them down on the arrears front, or are we over a barrel on this ?

[BankFodder]

You say that you had an agreement in place to repay the arrears at £50 per month in addition to the regular payments. Is that correct

[jotty]

It was informal in as much as we paid it and they didn't proceed with any other action, never had it in writing though sadly.

[BankFodder]

How long has this implied scheme of overpayments been going on?

[jotty]

Its at least 12 months, the rate changed and payments due dropped but we continued to pay the usual figure which was £52 more than it should have been.

[BankFodder]

Okay. You have been making overpayments for 12 months and these have been accepted by your original creditor without causing any problem and without trying to protest against what you are doing. I think that this amounts to an implied agreement and my immediate recommendation to you is to keep on making the payments without fail. One mistake and there could be a problem for you.

 

Mortgage lenders and the people who take them over are bound by MCOBS. In keeping with the other FCA COBS regulations there is a duty to treat you fairly. There is no doubt in my mind that if they buy a debt then they are saddled with any existing agreements. There is no doubt in my mind that despite the lack of writing, there is an implied agreement that you will repay the arrears at the rate you are currently making and that they will accept that repayment scheme.

 

I think you need to state your position very firmly.

 

Write to them and tell them in no uncertain terms that you have been making overpayments in respect of the arrears for 12 months and that you propose to keep on doing so at the same rate. Point out to them that they are subject to the FCA MCOBS regulations and if they try to deviate from the agreement or if they try to levy any other charges or if they start to make any threats against you, that at the very least you will begin a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

Tell them that if they begin any court action against you that you will counterclaim under MCOBS. Tell them that you fully expect to be successful before the County Court's and that in the event that you do obtain a judgement on the counterclaim that not only will you enforce whatever figure compensation the courts decided but also you will send a copy of the judgement to the FOS and to the FCA.

[jotty]

Thanks BankFodder, it does seem a bit hard faced from them as your right it isn't my fault that they bought the debt and the perceived problems.

 

Have you any advice about the fees they appear to want to levy on us as well, it appears that they also took these on as an almost separate account and seem to think it is an another nice revenue stream. Are Rooftop not just JP Morgan under another name ?

[BankFodder]

They are not entitled to apply charges which are not reflective of their administrative losses. In other words they are not allowed to make profits from this. Read about Kensington mortgages and also Deutsche Bank. Also Redstone

 

Follow the mortgages link to get more information.

 

In your letter remind them of the rules relating to charges and also that they are not allowed to add these charges to any mortgage arrears. Tell them that unless they withdraw this immediately that you will be making an immediate complaint to the FOS. Make sure you do this. Don't bluff.

 

Tell them that if there are any additional charges they wish to levy then you want a full breakdown and a full explanation of them which will satisfy not only you but also the FOS.

 

Make sure you send all communications by recorded delivery or preferably special next day delivery. Keep all proofs of posting and all proofs of delivery.

[jotty]

Yes will do many thanks.

[dx100uk]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?296108-Hot-news-for-anyone-who-has-suffered-mortgage-arrears-charges-irresponsible-lending-or-other-unfair-lender-conduct

 

and more info in your old thread too that might help.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?296108-Hot-news-for-anyone-who-has-suffered-mortgage-arrears-charges-irresponsible-lending-or-other-unfair-lender-conduct

[dx100uk]

whats that insurance fee?

[jotty]

This is the first time we have ever had these separate statements covering charges so don't have a lot of old paperwork.

 

However I recall that every year until around 2014 they would ask for a copy of our home insurance policy which we sent usually by fax but they would still state if we didn't send them the copy that they would place their own insurance in place in case the house fell down from their providers at their cost.

 

I can only think that they have gone ahead even though we had insurance.

 

Do these possibly class as unlawful charges as we would have never had copies of the ins docs and wouldn't have been aware of their existence ?

[dx100uk]

all you must have inplace on a secured loan or mortgage is buildings insurance

and I bet you had that elsewhere

 

 

time to get reclaiming that too.

[jotty]

DX your right my friend I feel another charges reclaim battle coming, problem is I wont have the previous years of insurance policies etc and I know the current one but I would struggle to find the names of the others. Whats the level of proof on this ?

[dx100uk]

well I bet they never sent one letter asking to see any documents on insurance you already had anyway yearly?

[jotty]

I recall they would send a letter every year asking for details. and I would send them a copy totally unaware of the fact I was being charged.