Accused of Flytipping

[Tinkerbelle]

Received a response from this pathetic outfit today.

 

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Thank you blah blah blah

 

Although I sympathise with you, the Council is taking a very firm line with any unwanted bag of refuse that has not been properly disposed of. Under the Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005 Streetscene Officers have the authority to ensure that the public highway is clear of unwanted refuse.

 

I have liaised with the authorised officer who issued you with the Fixed Penalty Notice. An unwanted bag was found on the public highway. Inside the bag was correspondence addressed to you indicating that the bag was your responsibility.

 

We are having tremendous problems with establishments leaving their refuse out on the public highway which can attract and be infested with vermin, steps are being taken to clean up the area. It is your responsibility to ensure that your waste is disposed of in an acceptable manner.

 

Rubbish may only be left on the public highway after 7pm on the day before collection or on the morning.

 

Please find enclosed photographic evidence of the waste found on site.

 

After due consideration I feel that the notice must stand and therefore your appeal cannot be upheld. Please make payment as advised on the notice by the due date.

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No photograph included, and despite me asking them when I can leave rubbish out they come back with "Rubbish may only be left on the public highway after 7pm on the day before collection or on the morning." And which blooming day is that then? Every feck'n day?

 

If they don't have the nouse to provide me with the correct information, what do they expect me to do? You know what, they can kiss my arse

 

I will be leaving my rubbish in the same manner as I have been doing for the past 5 years, and if they don't like it they know what they can do.

[Movingon]

Let the buggers take you to court... they haven't given you a collection day.

[Tinkerbelle]

Let the buggers take you to court... they haven't given you a collection day.

 

Either way I still have to pay this wretched thing though don't I?

I don't want this turning into an unnecessary nightmare, and bailiffs banging down my door demaing 500 quid for a £50 "fine".

 

They have given me no evidence and no information. I was going to write to him again enclosing a cheque for £50 admitting no liability, pointing out their ommissions, and tell them I will continue to dispose of my rubbish as I have been doing for the 5 past years until they come up with a better answer than what they have provided.

 

Thick Idiots

[MrShed]

Thing is, we all know that Tinkerbelle is in the right. But for the sake of £50 it is not worth the risk of a court not agreeing, and possibly multiplying that cost by 10 or more. I would just pay it, grudgingly.

[reidnet]

Its not worth the risk of court for £50..Pay it and then fight like hell to get it back..Oh and I would invest in a shredder so they cant find any correspondence in future..Unless they like doing Jigsaws..lol

 

Ian

[Tinkerbelle]

Thing is, we all know that Tinkerbelle is in the right. But for the sake of £50 it is not worth the risk of a court not agreeing, and possibly multiplying that cost by 10 or more. I would just pay it, grudgingly.

 

That's exactly it! I don't want to end up with a criminal record for something so stupid and ridiculous

 

Which is why I will pay the wretched fine and to hell with with "Clean Neighbourhoods & Environment Act"... I shall dump that **** wherever I like

[Tinkerbelle]

I have a shredder, but it doesn't like plastic delivery bags.

 

Usually I cut out the address and shred it in between normal paper, but the one time I couldn't be bothered to do it, they come up with this crap

 

Believe me, I am going to tie them up with so much paper work they won't know where to turn

[Tinkerbelle]

Oh.....and it's a cross cutter shredder, so they'll have a job making any sense out of that.

 

Bar stewards

[Movingon]

OK, so pay it and then start a claim like the bank charges claim... make sure you get in that they have not given you a collection day when you can leave out your rubbish, and you now require one to be able to comply with the Law. LOL they will be in KNOTS.

[MrShed]

Thats not a bad idea.....just state that you are not accepting liability, and that you are paying under duress. In small claims court you can always argue you were paying under duress due to the increased size of payment and threat of large court costs if you refused to pay, therefore leaving you little choice but to pay.

[Movingon]

Dear Sir

 

Please find enclosed one cheque in the sum of £50 in relation to the penalty charge notice of serial number . This payment is tendered under duress for I feel that the penalty was incorrectly issued.Thank you.

 

Yours faithfully

 

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Dear Sir,

 

I write regarding my recent penalty charge notice which I believe was incorrectly applied. You will note the following facts in relation to this case:

 

* There is a refuse collector who visits every day at certain times with the express purpose of collecting my refuse. This service is provided by the Local Authority.

 

* To date, I have not been notified of a "Collection Day" for refuse by the Local Authority. Were I to have been notified of such a date, I would have followed the procedure you outlined in your earlier communication.

 

* This has been the situation since when I first took residence in this property. At that time I was advised of the procedure to follow by your representative, and that procedure was the one I have hitherto been following.

 

What I Require

I believe that this PCN was incorrectly issued and I therefore require an immediate refund in the sum of £50. Further to this, to avoid the inevitable future repeats of this situation, I require you to immediately notify me of my "Refuse Collection Day". I further require you to supply me with a suitable receptacle in which to store refuse between collection days, and a place to store this receptacle which meets all relevant legislation and regulations. I undertake, following receipt of the receptacle and information, to place my refuse in a nominated spot (to be nominated by yourselves) at or following 7pm on the day prior to my Collection Day.

 

If you fail to respond, or you fail to respond positively, within 14 days of receiving this letter then I will contact you again to notify you of my intentions in this matter.

 

Yours faithfully

[Bookworm]

That's beautiful, Tom, just beautiful. *sniff*

 

[Movingon]

That's beautiful, Tom, just beautiful. *sniff*

 

 

Oh, man, THANKS Booky! *BEAM*

[Tinkerbelle]

Thanks Stonie!!

 

That will land on their fax by 8:30am tomorrow morning

 

Thank you!!

[StudentInDebt]

Which council is this Tinkerbelle?

[Bookworm]

Croydon.

[tim2718281]

Notice the response does not include any evidence that you have committed a crime.

 

I'd imagine they need to show that the bag was placed there by you and not by someone else. and they also need to show when you placed it there, and that it was not placed in the location they had advised you to place your rubbish, on the day and by the time they had advised you to place your rubbish.

 

All that seems pretty-near impossible unless they have a witness, or unless you

state that you did.

 

Tim

[Tinkerbelle]

Notice the response does not include any evidence that you have committed a crime.

 

I'd imagine they need to show that the bag was placed there by you and not by someone else. and they also need to show when you placed it there, and that it was not placed in the location they had advised you to place your rubbish, on the day and by the time they had advised you to place your rubbish.

 

All that seems pretty-near impossible unless they have a witness, or unless you

state that you did.

 

Tim

 

This is what I wrote to them...

I am writing with regards to a Fixed Penalty Notice that was posted through my letter box this morning.

 

I assume it was meant for me, as I am the only person living at this address.

 

Please be advised that I am appealing this fixed penalty notice.

 

I have been living alone at the above address since February 2002, and have always been putting my rubbish on the pavement by the lamppost like everyone else in this building. We do not have wheelie bins, we do not have recycle bins, nor am I aware of any limitations or restrictions on when and how I am supposed to get rid of my household waste. If I was, then clearly I would adhere to these rules. I am a law abiding citizen and in fact I make regular use of the recycling bins placed further along xxxxxxxx.

 

On the day that the incident was alleged to have taken place, any rubbish that was placed on the street would have been done before 9:00am as that is when I would have left for work. If it had not been picked up by 15:30hrs that is not my fault.

 

Also, considering that I had actually been out of the Country up until the evening of Monday 9th October and didn’t arrive home until after 7:00pm, I am finding it difficult to imagine what I could possibly have left in a black bin liner that would “pose a health and safety problem”.

 

Ever since I have lived here, I have noticed that our rubbish is collected daily by men who drive around the area in caged vans, and I have seen them more than once per day. If there is any other method of collection in place, I certainly am not aware of it. Also if I have been illegally leaving waste for the last 4 years, why am I only being made aware of it now?

 

I would please ask that you reconsider this fixed penalty as I believe it was incorrectly issued. I would also respectfully ask that you advise me how I am to dispose of my rubbish so as to keep within your laws as I am not aware of them.

[patdavies]

I think that you need to be clearer as to whether this a a fixed penalty notice or a penalty charge notice - they are not the same thing.

 

A PCN is appealed to the council in the first instance; an FPN can only be appealed to a Magistrates' Court by contacting them and refusing to accept the FPN.

[Tinkerbelle]

Sent the letter as suggested by SL, and also mentioned in it that theyhadno provided no evidence in their letter, even though they said they had.

 

Cheque has not yet been cashed -I am seriously considering stopping it.

 

Anyway, below is the rather arrogant response I received from the Council. See if you can spot the error.

 

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Thank you for your letter dated xx regarding the Fixed Penalty Notice that was issued on 12th December 2006.

It is evident from the content of your letter that you are under the misunderstanding that domestic refuse is collected on a daily basis for the xxxxx Road. This is not the case; domestic refuse is only collected once a week for local residents. The shopping areas in xxxx Road are cleaned on a daily basis and as all Local Authorities are required to remove and rubbish deposited on the public highway, any illegally deposited refuse is collected at this time. Where evidence of the point of origin for illegal domestic/trade waste is available, those responsible are now fined, this action is now considered to form the basis of any advice under the appropriate legislation.

Information about refuse collection dates is readily available from the Council, either by phone on xxxxx or via the Council’s website – please use this link blah.blah.blah. However I can advise that your collection day is a Monday. As such you should only make your refuse available for collection by 6am, although as not all residents are able to place refuse out this early, it is acceptable for residents to make their refuse available for collection from *pm on the night preceding collection days. At all other times, refuse deposited will be treated as illegal fly-tipping.

I also confirm that we are in receipt of £50 payment therefore will no longer contact you on this matter.

Yours sincerely,

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[Bookworm]

What, they see the future now???

 

Tink, can you give the link? Because when you first posted, it was the first thing I did and checked on LBC's website, and I couldn't find the info anywhere...

[Tinkerbelle]

London Borough of Croydon | (1) Addiscombe

[Tinkerbelle]

London Borough of Croydon | (1) Addiscombe

 

The above link produced the following:

That makes two errors in his letter so far.

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An unexpected error has occurred

 

please forward the following details to the webmaster:

 

CIBtag [setStreetsTag Items]: Failed to retrieve polling area and ward details >>> CIBtag [setStreetsTag Items]: Failed to retrieve polling area and ward details >>> null

javax.servlet.ServletException: CIBtag [setStreetsTag Items]: Failed to retrieve polling area and ward details >>> CIBtag [setStreetsTag Items]: Failed to retrieve polling area and ward details >>> null at com.evermind.server.http.EvermindPageContext.handlePageThrowable(EvermindPageContext.java:595) at com.evermind.server.http.EvermindPageContext.handlePageException(EvermindPageContext.java:537) at _web_2d_inf._components._standard._header._aya__header__2._jspService(_aya__header__2.java:327) at com.orionserver.http.OrionHttpJspPage.service(OrionHttpJspPage.java:56) at oracle.jsp.runtimev2.JspPageTable.service(JspPageTable.java:347)

[buzby]

Well, apart from the date error - and a common one, I've been guilty of this myself, surely the matter is concluded...? And if you stop your cheque you'll leave yourself liable to a whole raft of new problems?

 

If you live above shoips, then clearly they get a daily refuse collection because they pay the council commercial rates to provide this. Now that you've been advised your collection date is Monday, then I'd work to this, I only get my bins emptied fortnightly now, and if your complaint was that 'you didn't know' then you do now. I don;t think the council have done anything wrong, and I'n sure you'd be just as vociferous if other residents abused the system in a similar way.

[Movingon]

OK, so no mention whatever of a suitable receptacl and a place to put it. I feel a "Letter Before Action" coming on. I would start taking timed and dated photographs of the guy collecting refuse on your street, as evidence for the court case.