Accused of Flytipping

[Tinkerbelle]

Ahh. My bad.

 

The EPA 1990 specifically provides for Fixed Penalties. You've appealed already, that's fine; you now need to find out from the Council what alternative measures they have put in place for refuse disposal at your address... they have a civil duty to remove refuse from properties.

 

ok..thanks Stonie. I take it this is a fine though?

 

I asked them in my appeal to provide me with details on refuse collection so I know what I can and can't do.

 

Imagine...all this palava over a 1/4 full black bag which more than likely had no more in it than an empty wine bottle an empty carton of skimmed milk, and some old newspapers

[Movingon]

It's not technically a fine... it's a "Fixed Penalty Notice" like you'd get for decriminalised parking. But you DO have to pay it, unfortunately, if your appeal is unsuccessful.

[callumsgran]

Tinks, have i got this right? you dont have a designated bin day?

[Tinkerbelle]

Tinks, have i got this right? you dont have a designated bin day?

 

Not as far as I am aware Pet.

 

We don't have wheelie bins. The houses across the road do, but us flats don't. :-|

 

There is a caged van that circles round here at least twice a day picking up rubbish.

[tim2718281]

Similarly, if identified as a flytipper unter the relevant act(s), there's no need for them to take you to court - if the fine is not paid or disputed, it is passed directly to Bailiffs.

Surely that cannot be right. Surely there needs to be a finding of fact by a court that the person doing the flytipping was the person whom the council wishes to collect money from.

 

I'd have thought the first step was to write and advise the council that you are not going to pay a penalty, as you did not flytip.

 

Tim

[callumsgran]

Well i'd go and buy one if i were you love and put it out with everyone elses!

Ive never heard of not having a bin day, thats disgusting!

Btw how did they know it was your bag? did you leave envelopes or something in it so you could be traced?

[tim2718281]

It's not technically a fine... it's a "Fixed Penalty Notice" like you'd get for decriminalised parking. But you DO have to pay it, unfortunately, if your appeal is unsuccessful.

 

If I recall rightly, the European Convention of Human Rights said no-one could be subjected to a penalty without the opportunity for a hearing before an impartial judge.

 

I would not have though a council's appeals procedure is a hearing before an impartial judge.

 

Tim

[barracad]

Well i'd go and buy one if i were you love and put it out with everyone elses!

 

It should be up to the council to provide one. Besides, where's she going to keep it? She can't wheel it up to her flat!

 

Btw how did they know it was your bag? did you leave envelopes or something in it so you could be traced?

 

It was obviously all the wine bottles

 

 

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[Tinkerbelle]

Well i'd go and buy one if i were you love and put it out with everyone elses!

Ive never heard of not having a bin day, thats disgusting!

Btw how did they know it was your bag? did you leave envelopes or something in it so you could be traced?

 

LOL Feck knows! I tend to shred everything, or so I thought!

 

Right about now I couldn't give a rats arse..the vino is taking effect

 

Cheers!

 

P.S. We don't have anywhere to put a wheelie bins

[Tinkerbelle]

It was obviously all the wine bottles

 

 

I love this site... you guys have cheered me up no end

[callumsgran]

Fair play!

[patdavies]

It's not technically a fine... it's a "Fixed Penalty Notice" like you'd get for decriminalised parking. But you DO have to pay it, unfortunately, if your appeal is unsuccessful.

 

 

No it's not.

 

PCNs for decriminalised parking and FPNs like here or for parking where it has not been decriminalised are very different things.

 

An FPN does not in any way breach the Bill of Rights. It is an opportunity to pay the fine and avoid court. You can choose to go to a criminal court instead of paying the FPN. If you do not pay, and do not elect for trial, then the fine will be pursued as if imposed by a Magistrates' Court

 

A PCN on the other hand, gives no right of appeal to a court at any time. There is only the 'independent' tribunal'. If you do not pay, the fine wil be pursued via the civil court as a civil debt.

[patdavies]

If I recall rightly, the European Convention of Human Rights said no-one could be subjected to a penalty without the opportunity for a hearing before an impartial judge.

 

I would not have though a council's appeals procedure is a hearing before an impartial judge.

 

Tim

 

The Council's appeal process, if it exists, is irrelevant.

 

This is a Fixed Penalty Notice. You either pay it - and that is the end of the matter - or you must demand a trial. In this case, the FPN is voided and a summons issued for the Magistrates' Court.

 

The only iniquitous part about an FPN is that it has a default convict - so if you do nothing you are assumed guilty and will be pursued for the fine as if it had been awarded in the Magistrates' Court. You must write to demand a trial.

[Tinkerbelle]

The Council's appeal process, if it exists, is irrelevant.

 

This is a Fixed Penalty Notice. You either pay it - and that is the end of the matter - or you must demand a trial. In this case, the FPN is voided and a summons issued for the Magistrates' Court.

 

The only iniquitous part about an FPN is that it has a default convict - so if you do nothing you are assumed guilty and will be pursued for the fine as if it had been awarded in the Magistrates' Court. You must write to demand a trial.

 

*gulp*

 

So me appealing means bugger all??

[alftupper]

The following punishments can apply: Fly-tipping fines are up to £20,000 and/or 6 months' imprisonment. Fines are unlimited if the case goes to the Crown Court or up to 2 years' imprisonment, and up to 5 years if hazardous waste is dumped.

 

All householders have a “ Duty of Care” to ensure their waste is disposed of properly and to take reasonable measures to ensure their waste is passed to contractors registered to transport and dispose of waste and to ensure that bins or bags are only placed out on collection day.

 

I find it astonishing that in five years you do not know your collection day!

 

 

Waste placed out for collection on “ refuse collection day” should be placed in your bin or appropriate bag, side waste beside a bin waste will be treated as “ fly tipping”.

[Tinkerbelle]

The following punishments can apply: Fly-tipping fines are up to £20,000 and/or 6 months' imprisonment. Fines are unlimited if the case goes to the Crown Court or up to 2 years' imprisonment, and up to 5 years if hazardous waste is dumped.

 

All householders have a “ Duty of Care” to ensure their waste is disposed of properly and to take reasonable measures to ensure their waste is passed to contractors registered to transport and dispose of waste and to ensure that bins or bags are only placed out on collection day.

 

I find it astonishing that in five years you do not know your collection day!

 

 

Waste placed out for collection on “ refuse collection day” should be placed in your bin or appropriate bag, side waste beside a bin waste will be treated as “ fly tipping”.

 

We don't have a collection day where I live!! And if there is one it's news to me.

 

It's a main road with many flats and shops on one side, and there is a van that patrols the area at least twice a day EVERY day!

[Bookworm]

an empty wine bottle an empty carton of skimmed milk, and some old newspapers

 

Ooooh, and not recycling either, Tink? My, my, you ARE playing fast and loose with LBC's environmental policies....

 

 

(anyway, AN empty wine bottle? u-uh...)

[buzby]

Surely that cannot be right. Surely there needs to be a finding of fact by a court that the person doing the flytipping was the person whom the council wishes to collect money from.

Tim

 

Councils have quite extensive powers - the Council Tax is a prime example, they have the power to make a statuatory addition (fine) for late payment, and demant all outstanding fees in one go - assuming you were paying it up over 10 months. Once you are in default, they can immediately issue a warrant without you having to have a day in court to explain the problem, and the bailiffs move in to enforce. Neat - it cut's out the middleman and leaves the debtor in a spin.

[buzby]

Surely that cannot be right. Surely there needs to be a finding of fact by a court that the person doing the flytipping was the person whom the council wishes to collect money from.

Tim

 

Councils have quite extensive powers - the Council Tax is a prime example, they have the power to make a statuatory addition (fine) for late payment, and demant all outstanding fees in one go - assuming you were paying it up over 10 months. Once you are in default, they can immediately issue a warrant without you having to have a day in court to explain the problem, and the bailiffs move in to enforce. Neat - it cut's out the middleman and leaves the debtor in a spin. So, you can be done without any independent finding of fact, simply on the say-so of the Council. Incredible, isn't it?

[patdavies]

Councils have quite extensive powers - the Council Tax is a prime example, they have the power to make a statuatory addition (fine) for late payment, and demant all outstanding fees in one go - assuming you were paying it up over 10 months. Once you are in default, they can immediately issue a warrant without you having to have a day in court to explain the problem, and the bailiffs move in to enforce. Neat - it cut's out the middleman and leaves the debtor in a spin. So, you can be done without any independent finding of fact, simply on the say-so of the Council. Incredible, isn't it?

 

Any warrant is issued by the Magistrates' Court - the council have no power to issue their own. They apply to the Court and you are notified of the hearing - however, there are very few grounds for the warrant to be refused.

 

Usually if you are in arrears and agree a payment plan, the council will still go to the court for a warrant. this enables then to go straight to baliffs without further reference to the court if you default on the agreement

[reidnet]

Ohhh Tink you could be locked up and miss the crimbo bash...lol

[tim2718281]

Councils have quite extensive powers - the Council Tax is a prime example, they have the power to make a statuatory addition (fine) for late payment, and demant all outstanding fees in one go - assuming you were paying it up over 10 months. Once you are in default, they can immediately issue a warrant without you having to have a day in court to explain the problem, and the bailiffs move in to enforce. Neat - it cut's out the middleman and leaves the debtor in a spin.

 

Sure, but surely they first need to obtain an enforcement order from the court.

 

They can't simply pick some random person, say "We demand you pay £1000 Council Tax for 123 Acacia Road", and then enforce payment - even though the person does not own or live at 123 Acacia Road and knows nothing about the council's demand for payment.

 

If the person is not liable for the Council Tax, surely the council cannot force them to pay it without a court hearing of some kind.

 

Tim

[buzby]

Well they did, and I was. My job took me abtoad for 16 weeks, and before I left I received a Staruatory Addition notice issued by the Council, which added 10% to my Council Tax bill. On my return - because I hadn;t responded I was greeted with a Charge notice from Bailiffs. The case did NOT call in court and I had my first adverse judjement. This was back in 1992 and if anything, things have got much easier and punters have less rights!

[dayglo]

 

sorry tinks - couldn't resist

[Tinkerbelle]

Lol... :D