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Car failed first MOT under my ownership, only had it a month!


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As above! I bought my 2005 Citroen Xsara Picasso Desire HDi from a dealership in Birmingham, haven't got the bill to hand and I can't remember the dealers name at the moment. Cost me just over £2000, came with almost complete history and a recent cambelt and waterpump, car seemed very nice and very clean, drove well too. It was due an mot in about a month and a half but due to the distance I travelled (60ish miles) and the fact that I'd scrapped my old car just a few hours ago, I couldn't leave without a car and though they offered to do an mot there was no way I could get get back to them to collect it, they knocked a bit more of the price due to this. The car has been almost perfectly fine up to the mot, the service due light came on but they had already mentioned it was due a service, and the temp warning light came on, though the car never overheated, it was just low on water which I topped up, the temp warning light is a common fault with them. It went in for the mot yesterday and failed, on 3 things. A few bulbs were out which I'd not noticed, it failed the smoke test but worst of all, the front discs were severely corroded and weakened, so it needed new discs and pads and was finished last night by my local garage. The total including the test comes to £270. If I go to the dealer with these issues and the bill, is there anything I can do to get this repaid to me? Its been mentioned that the sales of good act may be able to help me. Obviously, if it had been mot'd before I collected it I wouldn't have these probs and if it had been local there would have been no issue with me leaving it there!

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Yes, you are covered by the Sale of Goods Act. You can get all of your outlay for the repairs if you sue them.

Go and talk about it with them and if they get funny, then come back here and tell us about it.

They are also committing an offence by selling a car in an unroadworthy condition.

Frankly you were much better off getting the MOT done by an independent garage - otherwise the problem might never have been discovered - know what I mean?

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Yes, you are covered by the Sale of Goods Act. You can get all of your outlay for the repairs if you sue them.

Go and talk about it with them and if they get funny, then come back here and tell us about it.

They are also committing an offence by selling a car in an unroadworthy condition.

Frankly you were much better off getting the MOT done by an independent garage - otherwise the problem might never have been discovered - know what I mean?

Under SOGA isnt the OP meant to give the seller of the car the opportunity to rectify the problems first?

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You say money was knocked off price as you didn't get mot. How much? Does this cover what your costs are. Also if brakes weren't noticeable to you when driving was the car actually unsafe. And I feel it's unfair to suggest the dealer would have hidden faults if you hadn't gone to independent garage a there's no evidence of this*

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afcwben makes a very good point. The seller is allowed to mitigate his costs thus meaning he should be given the opportunity to inspect and if necessary, rectify any faults that were present at the point of sale. OP has prejudiced his chances of recovering his full outlay if he were to take the matter to court. However, the seller remains responsible to contribute to the OP's outlay.

 

I'm not sure that worn discs/pads necessarily renders the car 'un-roadworthy' providing that they still work (i.e. effective enough to stop the car adequately).

 

As for the other faults; excess smoke- seller should investigate as above. Bulbs- could be argued that after a month and a half they could considered as being simple wear and tear items which could of blown at anytime.

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Well, seeing as the work has already been carried out, is it even worth me contacting the dealership? Do I realistically have a chance of getting anything back if I show them the mot refusal and the bill? I'm not suggesting they were hiding anything either, I appreciate that you could say it was just wear and tear. They knocked off another £50 as I couldn't wait for the test to be done with them.

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I will ask them and see what they say. I have got the mot history for the car as well and it was only refused once before due to a bulb out and a tyre wearing low, never any mention of the brakes. The last mot was done at 94557 miles and is on just over 106k now, is it feasible that the discs simply wore out after the last mot, or is there a chance it was a dodgy garage that did the last mot?

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Hi, My post about saying they were hiding something was aimed at a reply not the OP. I think if you approach them reasonably they may give a bit more towards. The thing with brakes is they would be good one year and not the next. It really depends how the car has been used. Heavy braking on a full car?

I think 270 isn't a bad price for the work and if you knock off labour (which original seller may have a mechaniic at his place s wouldn't have incurred that cost) then to get another £50 towards would be a good result.

I'd say worth the ask, but probably not worth the argument if they refuse.

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i think the op is jumping the gun abit here.

 

you brought a car off a dealer, how many miles have you done since?

 

i work in a garage & we hardly ever fail cars on brake discs unless they are seriously damaged, most are advisory's & do you know how long this vehicle was sitting i presume on a forecourt before you brought the vehicle.

 

bulbs can go at anytime & this is a diesel vehicle this is the most common failure with emissions people just need to get the car at operating temperature get it to the mot station for its test & if it don't go through then you may have problems. how did this garage fix the smoke problem?

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Driving it back included, I've probably done a few hundred miles tops. It was on a forecourt but I've no idea how long it had been there. My garage used an injector cleaner to get it through the test, mentions it on the invoice.

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did you get your car warm before taking it to the test, if the engine is not hot it won't go through the test these are all minor things, sticking a fuel cleaner through the system may not have been needed.

 

are you sure the mot station weren't just looking for work & did they explain why the discs and pads needed changing.

 

just checked how much you paid, £270, what did they fit genuine parts that is really is expensive using pagid braking system you'd be looking at about £160, £35 mot then depending on what bulbs & cleaner £15. there are cheaper brands about.

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I drove it straight to garage in the morning, about 10 min drive in traffic. I myself trust the garage that I go to and have been going to them to several years now. I've no idea what make of parts they fitted, I didn't have the time to question things like that, I needed the car back ASAP.

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To be fair, you had money knocked off as the MOT and Service were due. Have you checked the Air Filter? HDi Engines (Which yours will be) are very fussy about a clean air filter... Injector cleaner may have been a bypass of them having to have to wait until the next delivery round for an air filter... Brake pads and disks, well... These can go at anytime. I dont recall the Picasso having a warning light for them (even though most brands of pads come with the wire, these just get ripped out as there's no connector for them!).

I think your workshop have taken the mick here, not the dealer. Pads are £20, discs probably £25 each and then an hours labour to fit.

 

On a different note, enjoy it. Make sure the timing belt is up to date too, these are fussy old things. But super when they run right. If it keeps losing coolant, check the thermostat housing. These are plastic and tend to split.

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Had £50 knocked off for the MOT only, not the service which is due anyway. Maybe my local is a bit pricey but as I'd already said, I had no time and I needed the car back! Cambelt and pump both done last December!

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Well, the dealer has ignored my last 2 emails and I've been very polite in both. I will write to them too but is there anything I can do? I don't want an argument with them if I'm unlikely to get any money back.

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Had other things going lately so I haven't been able to write but I have composed a letter, does the following sound ok?

 

Dear Sirs,

 

 

 

I recently bought a car from yourselves, a Citroen Xsara Picasso Desire Hdi, registration number edited on the 9th February 2013.

At the time of the sale, it was due an MOT in a little under 2 months. You did offer to put it through another test for me but due to the distance I had travelled and that I'd scrapped my old car in the morning before I came over, I had no choice but to decline and take the car anyway as I needed it, another £50 was deducted from the total which was most appreciated.

 

I took the car to my local garage for an MOT on Wednesday 20thMarch 2013 and unfortunately it failed. It was refused due to the front discs being severely corroded and weakened, 2 bulbs out at the front and too much smoke blowing from the turbo. As I needed the car back I gave them authorisation to repair the car and retest it and I collected it back the day after. The bill for the works excluding the test was £228 (£190 + vat). If it was just a few pounds I wouldn't be bothered about it but for the condition of the car, the almost complete service history and how it felt when I drove it, I would have hoped it would pass its first test in my ownership, especially as I'd only had the car a little over a month.

 

Under the Sales of Goods Act 1979, it could be deemed that the vehicle was not fit for purpose at the time of the sale and that I may be entitled to a refund due to the costs of repair works that I had to carry out.

Due to these unfortunate circumstances, would you be prepared to offer me some kind of contribution towards the repair costs? You will find enclosed copies of the relevant paperwork including the failure sheet and the invoice. Please ignore the final total, a headlamp had to be replaced due to the bulbholders coming apart when the bulbs were being changed.

Apart from these issues I am more than happy with the car, but I would like a response this time as my last 2 emails through your website have been ignored and I will take things further if I do not get a reply.

 

Yours faithfully,

Edited by Conniff
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You're grovelling.

would you be prepared to offer me some kind of contributionlink3.gif towards the repair costs?

 

Change that to 'I request a contribution ......' and put in the amount you will be satisfied with.

 

Treat this with the attention that it deserves and get that off to him as soon as.

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Picasso discs are very thin and could easily have worn out between MOT,s. A point previously raised was the time the car sat in the dealers yard. Because of the cut price design of modern braking systems, if an XPIC is laid up for a while the brakes become partially seized, which in turn leads to wear and distortion of the discs. I had to have all my Pics rear brakes (discs & pads) renewed when the car was only weeks into service as it was a pre registered new car which Arnold Clark had in stock for some months. As usual Clark said there was nothing wrong with the brakes, so i took it to another main agent.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Well, Amington Motors conveniently ignored my letters as well. My recorded one wasn't signed for and was returned to me a few days ago, sent the same letter 1st class as well on the same day (12/4/13) and that appears to have been ignored as well. Looked on Birmingham Trading standards website, advises you to go though to a link to CAB so I've filled in all the info on another form and hopefully they will contact me.

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I think I would decline your request. Have you a written test laboratory report showing the discs were weakened ? no of course not. This is one of the easiest rues a test center can pull.

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