Dubai Debt through UK Courts

[Roysto11]

Can anyone provide advice on the thread title, please confirm and I will provide chapter and verse through private message to ensure I do not prejudice my case

 

Many Thanks in advance

[AndyOrch]

Hi Roysto and welcome to CAG

 

Unless litigation has actually commenced then you have posted in the wrong forum.

 

Thread moved to Overseas :- http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?385979-Dubai-Debt-through-UK-Courts(10-Viewing)-nbsp

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Roysto11]

Hi,

 

Litigation has commenced through UK courts in the last 10 days

[AndyOrch]

Thread moved back to Legal

[AndyOrch]

If you could provide details of their Particulars and a little background history and basis of your proposed defence.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Ok responding to a PM that contains all details so far.

 

 

AoS and contest jurisdiction...you must then submit an application notice (N244) within 14 days with your supported evidence as to why.When ever a Solicitor tells you not do do something and then threatens with costs its a safe bet that it will damage his claim.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Roysto11]

Its a Dubai Credit Card Debt that was established between 2007-2008

 

The debt at default stood at around £7k and I have dealt with the bank, bank's dubai lawyers, uk dca's and now uk solicitor over the last 5 years.

I have always tried to settle but they always increased the debt significantly and would only accept a one off payment.

 

Two weeks ago I received a county court claim through Northampton for £55k or x8 the original debt without it being particularised.

The Terms and Conditions (2013) provided are a direct print from the banks website and states that the claim is to be governed by UAE law under the non exclusive jurisdiction of Dubai.

 

Legal fees for both parties are estimated to be £30-50k.

the UK solicitor claims that they have successfully contested 20 similar judgements in the last 3 months and recommend that I should settle close to the amount claimed to avoid a judgement for double (legal fees incl.) furthermore they planned to take a charging order on my uk property and force the sell of the house.

[Roysto11]

Ok responding to a PM that contains all details so far.

 

 

AoS and contest jurisdiction...you must then submit an application notice (N244) within 14 days with your supported evidence as to why.When ever a Solicitor tells you not do do something and then threatens with costs its a safe bet that it will damage his claim.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Sorry for ignorance.....AoS?

[AndyOrch]

If you could check your dates Roysto as to when in 2008 you defaulted... Im pretty sure the statute of Limitations is 5 years under Commercial Code Article 638.

 

AoS Acknowledgement of Service.

[Roysto11]

Unfortunately default was Oct 2008 and the 5 years wouldn't apply.

However they are applying UAE law to this case and therefore the statute of limitations is unknown.

All I know is that for cheques it is 3 years in UAE.

 

I had to provide a blank, signed, security cheque and this would have been deposited on default to cover the whole debt + costs.

This cheque would have been referred to drawer and under UAE law a legal case would be created at this time.

[steampowered]

My personal view is that it would be difficult for you to argue against jurisdiction in this case.

Under English law the starting position is that people who are present in England can be sued through the English courts.

If you want to dispute jurisdiction the burden of proof is on the defendant to make a case for what is known as forum non conveniens, which is saying that there is another country where the case should be heard instead.

 

 

Although there is a jurisdiction clause in favour of Dubai, it is non-exclusive which means the bank can still sue in other countries.

As you do not live in the UAE anymore then I think it will be difficult to claim that the Dubai courts are a more appropriate place for this litigation. It doesn't make sense for you to go back and forth to Dubai for hearings plus the claimant would then have to go through a recognition process before enforcing a UAE judgment in England.

 

You could always have a crack at contesting jurisdiction on the basis that it is easier for the UAE courts to apply UAE law, thus avoiding any need for the English courts to hear expert evidence on UAE law.

 

 

Personally I think this argument is weak unless you can identify some genuine argument of UAE law that you might want to run.

If you do contest jurisdiction you need to be aware of the risk that there may be a preliminary hearing about jurisdiction and if you lose at that hearing you may be ordered to pay the legal costs of that hearing.

 

If you want to read about the legal basis for what I am saying, have a look at the leading judgment in this area - http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKHL/1986/10.html - specifically paragraph 5 of Lord Goff's judgment.

 

Personally I would be inclined to drop the jurisdiction point and treat this as a normal credit card claim.

However the difficulty is that you will not be protected by UK consumer protection legislation which will reduce the number of arguments you can raise.

 

 

The UAE has very little in the way of consumer protection (people get arrested by the police for not paying their mobile phone bill) and the UAE Civil Code is very brief, although I can probably dig up an English copy of it.

 

 

It certainly sounds like you need to be disputing the level of the costs and perhaps seeking an order for them to particularise their POC on this point, do you know if they are relying on a clause in the agreement making you liable for their legal costs?

[steampowered]

However they are applying UAE law to this case and therefore the statute of limitations is unknown. All I know is that for cheques it is 3 years in UAE. I had to provide a blank, signed, security cheque and this would have been deposited on default to cover the whole debt + costs. This cheque would have been referred to drawer and under UAE law a legal case would be created at this time.

 

The general limitation period for most civil claims in the UAE is 15 years. This includes breach of contract claims. There are a number of shorter periods for specific things like cheques and civil wrongs but unfortunately I think a credit card debt would fall under the general 15-year limit. I think I have an English translation of the UAE Civil Code on my work PC, I will try to dig it out for you tomorrow.

 

Another point: are you being pursued by the bank itself or by DCAs? If memory serves it is not straightforward to assign debts under UAE law. If it is a DCA then we can think about challenging them on the assignment.

 

If you have lived in the UAE you probably know this already but it is worth repeating. Under UAE law failing to honour a check is a criminal offence. If you ever return to the UAE - including stopovers in the airport - there is a good chance that you will be arrested by UAE police when you land. The UAE banks (including UAE branches of international banks) effectively use the police as debt collectors. This sounds ridiculous to Europeans but that is how the UAE works.

[Roysto11]

Firstly on jurisdiction. The T&C's attached to the claim or printed directly from the banks website. The bank has in fact merged and changed name since I originally signed the credit card agreement. They have certainly not provided the original T&C.

 

Secondly, I am not aware if they are relying on any particular clause in the agreement concerning legal fee costs and at this point the actual agreement has not been provided. There is a lot of paperwork attached to the claim but only one piece is relevant to me being a signature on an application page. It looks like a cut and paste job lot for the claimants solicitor with name and amount changes.

 

Finally, agreed....the claim would need to be particularised.

[steampowered]

What a bunch of jokers. Would love to hear from anyone who disagrees but personally I would be tempted to file a defence and then apply for an unless order requiring them to provide better particulars in default of which the claim is to be struck out.

 

If they still don't comply and don't provide a contractual basis for claiming the additional costs then perhaps apply for summary judgment on the charges.

 

you could have the SJ application heard at a CMC, and if the SJ application is granted you would have a shot at staying in the small claims track as the claim would then be under 10k.

The advantage of being in small claims is you are much less likely to be ordered to pay legal costs.

 

Please remember the small claims limit only increases to 10k for defences filed after 1 April, so don't file your defence until then (but staying within the time limits - remember, 14 days to serve defence but you can get an extra 14 days if you file an AOS indicating an intention to defend).

 

Remember that if you file a defence you will automatically be deemed to have accepted jurisdiction. If you do want to contest jurisdiction then you must first file an AOS ticking the box to contest jurisdiction, and then follow up with an application as stated by andyorch.

 

Perhaps worth writing to them and offering to pay the original debt of 7k in full and final settlement of all their claims if you do not really have any grounds for disputing the original debt?

Edited March 19, 2013 by steampowered

[Roysto11]

7k offered in Full and final on a number of occasions and in most recent weeks, they've suggested that only a figure x5 this amount could be put forward to their client

[steampowered]

For future reference, here is an English translation of the UAE Civil Code. Not sure it will help that much but you might need it later.

 

Let us know what you want to do and what help you need. I guess you now need to decide whether you want to contest jurisdiction and take the costs risk associated with that, or whether you want to accept jurisdiction and dispute the additional costs.

Edited March 20, 2013 by steampowered

[unclebulgaria67]

Steampowered

 

I thought that I had read that only the High Court can consider claims that originate out of jurisdiction. In the legislation that allows for foreign claim to be heard in UK courts, I thought that the legislation normally specifically lists the UK's High Court ?

[steampowered]

Hi,

 

You are on the right lines. Under the Civil Procedure Rules applications to enforce a foreign judgment or arbitration award must be made in the High Court. However, this would not apply when you are actually litigating the claim in the English courts. I believe new claims can still be heard by the County Court even though they might concern events from another country.

Edited March 20, 2013 by steampowered

[cerberusalert]

IIRC the poster received court papers from Northampton Bulk centre. Isn't there a limit that can be claimed through that route? Because the amount claimed should normally go through the 'Fast Track'.

[Roysto11]

For future reference, here is an English translation of the UAE Civil Code. Not sure it will help that much but you might need it later.

 

Let us know what you want to do and what help you need. I guess you now need to decide whether you want to contest jurisdiction and take the costs risk associated with that, or whether you want to accept jurisdiction and dispute the additional costs.

 

thanks for providing this, looks like a long read

[AndyOrch]

Perhaps hire a Dubai Solicitor Roysto to explain it to the English courts ?

[plasticCarpet]

Hi, I am am in a very similar position. Are there any updates on the thread please?

thanks

[hedaz]

Can anyone provide advice on the thread title, please confirm and I will provide chapter and verse through private message to ensure I do not prejudice my case

 

Many Thanks in advance

Hi Roysto11, I am new to this site. Can you let me know what happened in your case as I am in the same predicament. I would appreciate any help you can give me.

[hedaz]

Hi PlastricCarpet, Please let me know what happened in your case. I have the same prblem lately. Thanks

[lotuslove]

Please advice what has happened with your case? Would be highly obliged with any details as I have to go to court on the 24th March.