Lloyds/SCM claimform - credit card debt *SETTLED BY TOMLIN + PPI RECLAIM**

[AndyOrch]

Department SO

PO BOX 499

Second Floor

Three City Park

The Droveway ,Hove

East Sussex

BN3 7AU

 

 

Regards

 

Andy:wink:

[lindyhop]

Thanks Andy

 

you have confirmed the address i have, so at least i know now it is the right one.

[lindyhop]

Hi

 

i am being taken to court by Lloyds, who have advised (following my CPR request) that they cannot locate a copy of an original signed agreement so have attached a reconsituted copy.

 

however this is a pre 2007 case.

 

also they are unable to provide copies of credit card statements from inception stating ' The claimant is only required to hold statements for a period of 6 years so they have met their obligation in providing the statements they have'

 

the statements they have sent start with a large chunk, and the start amount on their print out could have come from anywhere? how would i be able to check?

 

they also state that they cannot provide a copy of the default notice because there is no obligation to, as they do not retain copies for practical reasons! they state that as it shows as being sent on their computer records then it was sent!

they have sent a template instead.

 

they are suggesting a settlement by way of a Consent Order.

 

But what is a Consent Order? what is it i would be consenting to? i have tried to look this up on the Web, but it refers in the main to divorce settlements:???:

 

i have been saving up for an all in one printer so that i will be able to print and scan up docs in private. at my local internet shop some of the staff have a good read of the items customers want to print off, prior to printing it!!! im on ESA so its taken a little while, but will be able to purchase a cheap on in a couple of weeks.

 

tried my library, they print but do not scan or photocopy. Please bear with me.

 

Thanks

[The Mould]

Hello Lindy

 

What does the proposed consent order say, precisely please.

 

Kind regards

 

The Mould

[lindyhop]

Hi Mould

 

there is no wording as they are suggesting this as negoiation and if i dont agree they will go for a summary judgement.

 

but what is a consent order anyway?

 

Thanks

[The Mould]

Thank you Lindyhop

 

A consent Order would be where you agree to all terms proposed by the Claimant therein, if you should default on the same, then the Claimant can enforce his claim and use said consent Order signed by you for the same.

 

As your agreement is pre-2007 and the Claimant is able to provide a re-constituted version of the same in order to meet the requirements of CCA 1974 for request made under the same, such reconstituted agreement may not satisfy the statutory requirements of CCA 1974 (As amended) which would, therefore, render the alleged agreement between you and your creditor unenforceable as a matter of law - see CCA 1974 sec 127 and Wilson v First County Trust in this respect.

 

Kind regards

 

The Mould

[lindyhop]

Thank you Mould

 

i dont honestly know if the recon is correct, it is just a document that someone has typed up on unheaded paper. how would i be able to verify?

 

i take it that their failure to provide statements from inception and default notice makes no odds?

 

is it advisable to request sight of their terms for a consent order, and can i do so without admiting any liability? is there a template on here for such a response?

 

Thanks

[lindyhop]

Mould, please excuse me, i forgot to say that i will look up wilson v first and section 127.

 

can i come back to you if i cant make sense of it?

 

thanks

[The Mould]

Yes of course, I and indeed other CAG members will help you all we can.

 

See also - Link v Harrisson 2011.

 

Would you kindly provide a chronology of these proceedings, the Claimant's Particulars of Claim ("POC") your Defence, any Directions/Orders served by the Court etc.etc.

 

Kind regards

 

The Mould

[lindyhop]

Hi dx100

just found your reply in post 4. would you mind expanding on your comment

 

'knowing lloyds and CCA the department that sent the recon in the SAR pack, the rest of lloyds dont know about it'

 

im querying because i have been sent a recon with a blinding error in it. is it normal for Lloyds to send out recons with errors hoping you wont notice?

 

in my own case they sent a recon and stating the Carey case and that they would not go into any further communication about the matter - however my agreement stems from 1997 so im not sure the Carey case applies especailly as they are pursuing the matter through the courts.

 

the recon states my original credit limit as being a minimum of £2,500, however on reading through the SARs stuff they sent, their own records show a substantially lessor credit limit was allowed on inception. their recon APR doesnt even cover the credit limit amount allowed me at the time of inception!

 

im pretty sure this means that they havent complied and should therefore not be able to enforce until they do????

 

i have been trying to find out lloyds card services address back in 1997 and their rates of interest in 1997. do you have any idea where i can find this info? i have tried online but am coming up blank!!!

 

Thanks

[dx100uk]

as its pre 2007 they'll need the signed original

 

end off

 

nothing owed stop paying it

 

 

dx

[lindyhop]

Hi dx

 

thanks for your response.

however i am still concerned.

 

the recon provided by Lloyds got passed Northampton!

 

i assume that a judge there saw the recon paperwork and passed it as acceptable.

 

i am amazed that it has got as far as it has without them being able to provide an original!!!

 

i have put Lloyds to strict proof so they may yet come up with a copy of the original for their summary judgement application,

 

as ive had notification from Northampton that the claim is now being passed to my local court.

 

Thanks

[dx100uk]

so this has gotten to court

 

thanks for telling us.

ok so ddi you challenge the recon

dxid you attend court at all?

and how much supporting documentation did they have?

 

dx

[lindyhop]

Hi dx

a hearing date has now been set for June.

the notification from the court,

does not make it clear what type of hearing, just states 'hearing' and that i should attend.

 

i had expected to receive with the hearing notification the evidence that Lloyds have,

but nothing else was included with the notification!!

 

so i do not know how i am to defend this,

 

as i am not sure what Lloyds have said and what they have produced for this part of the process?

 

anyone else had this?

 

thanks

[postggj]

what defence was submitted to the particulars of claim

 

lloyds card services i believe were southend on sea, but you need to confirm that

[lindyhop]

Hi Squaddie

 

thanks for your input.

 

OK the recon they have provided does quote Southend on Sea.

 

Defence

 

i put lloyds to strict proof and submitted an embarassed defence, not admitting liability to anything as i was unable to submit a full defence, lloyds not having supplied the information i requested under CPU

ie a copy of any agreement (subsequently a recon was sent)

DN they dont have their own copie apparently they do not keep them (they subsequently sent a recon DN as example)

statements of account from inception (couple of points here, first off statements not from inception - they basically said that they do not have to supply them to inception and that i was lucky that they were able to supply me with statements for more than six years anyway!)

consequently the statements start with a debt, with no clarification how the debt was originally incurred

termination notice as stated on their POC seems to have been totally forgotten as not mentioned at all by their solicitor!

 

for some reason lloyds have withheld some of their timeline information - i know that they have it as a small section of the witheld stuff was supplied to me by their solicitors, not by accident but by design. they were trying to show that their records showed the supposed date a DN was sent. i am missing an essential 4 months worth! i have followed up on my SARs requesting they comply and send me all information - to date they have chosen to ignore my request, and im not sure what to do about this? can anyone advise.

 

more importantly, can anyone advise as to how i am to defend without sight of the documents lloyds have now put forward as proof/evidence for the acutal hearing, as i understand for the Northampton Bulk Centre they didnt have to attach any docs to get the process started!

 

Thanks

[postggj]

did you do a CPR 31.14 request for information and documents mentioned in the particulars of claim

 

have you done a part 18 request yet for specific information

[postggj]

lloyds are very naughty in this quoting Carey and that they will enter into no further communication.I am also concerned which i have mentioned on many occasions peoples assumptions that courts will accept reconditioned agreements from the creditor to enforce obligations by the debtor.

 

The carey judgements was for a section 78 request only, not for enforcement. I can also use Harrison v link financial where judge Waksman said original agreements would be needed to enforce. If any debtor has a claim against them with a reconstructed agreement, and you are sure no executed agreement exists, your defence will be under section 61 of the CCA 1974 (as amended) and that a reconstructed copy agreement does not prove compliance. Any reconstructed agreement needs to be a true copy of the original, but if they had the original, why a reconstruction ?

 

That is with T&C at the time the agreement was taken out

 

Carey provided what constitutes an agreement, but lloyds are bending it some way in your case

 

Keep any defence to a claim short but accurate and to the point e.g. “the agreement is defective and does not constitute a valid contract”. You may hint at why but do not go into chapter and verse, leave that for the judge if it comes to it.

 

It will be beneficial also to have defects in default and termination regulation or assignment irregularities as well, best not put all your eggs in one basket

 

What i state is just my educated opinion

Edited April 22, 2013 by squaddie

[lindyhop]

Thank you Squaddie.

 

i did put Lloyds to strict proof and submitted and CPR for the evidence they put on their POC. response was reconstructed agreement (to date), no statement from inception but from at least a couple of years missing, no default notice or termination notice - with lloyds claiming that they do not keep copies of these due to the number of them that they have to send out, they therefore sent a reconstruction of one they say they would have sent!

 

i havent done a part 18 - but that is because im not sure what a part 18 is? am i allowed to submit this at this stage? i have a little while before the hearing.

 

the other thing is that lloyds havent even acknowledged my complaint and follow up to their failure to provide the missing info to my SARs request! i know for a fact what is missing. is there anything i can do to get them to send me the information?

 

Thanks for your help

[postggj]

This is just me but i am not a great fan of a embarrassed defence

 

its ok though in you're case as you had to do it

 

The proper way was to state you cannot pleads to the particulars of claim as you do not have the documents to plead your case , and ask to submit a defence when you have them. And that you have requested those documents from the claimant for which they still have not complied to your CPR 31.14 request

 

That is me and others will tell you different no doubt, but no harm has been done

 

At the hearing the judge will give directions, probably ordering the claimant to produce the requested documents within so many days or strike out the claim. The judge will also allow you to construct a fully particularized defence as well

 

As the hearing is not till June, i would think a letter to Lloyd s solicitors pointing out Carey and inviting them to withdraw the claim will be a good move

Edited April 27, 2013 by squaddie

[lindyhop]

Thanks Squaddie

 

i will draft a letter and post on here for comment and feedback. May also help others in same situation.

 

any advice on the SARs situation or should i just leave it? i assuming the part 18 does not apply now.

 

thanks again

[postggj]

Do not worry about a part 18 now, forget it

 

Read up on Carey though, post up your letter and we will help edit it when required

 

Its best you have a crack at it first so you can understand what is being said

[Guest]

the hearing is re summary judgment application? if the J finds that your defence has no merit ('real prospect'), there will be judgment for the claimant. if merit, then the application would be dismissed. and things would continue as norm (unless the claim is then struck out!). directions re the hearing may be made prior to the hearing. you'll prob need to prepare a full defence in argument.

loyds seem to like making sum judg applications.

Edited April 28, 2013 by Ford

[lindyhop]

Hi Ford and Suaddie

 

yes i had to contact the court to determine the type of hearing. the following was established.

 

the case is a 'full summary judgement' hearing as described by the court clerk that i spoke with. i take it this is another term for CCJ application?

the notice of hearing had been sent by the bulk centre (Northampton) and not my local court

the notice of hearing should have contained more information than that supplied on the notice by the bulk centre

ie, defence details and relelvant claimant docs.

 

the notice of hearing and subsequently does not say anything about AQ's. should i be initiating this?

 

Squaddie, thank you for your invaluable advice. i have read up on Carey and am prepping a defence.

 

in the meantime i have a great fear, and i apologise now to those who may consider my fear stupid.

 

my fear is putting more details ie drafts of docs i intend sending as i understand that creditors also read this site and can work out who you are and use your own information against you at a hearing(?)

 

This is such of major importance, and already risky, i do not want to help to arm lloyds against me.

 

if agreeable by the site i would prefer drafted docs be posted following the hearing, soley to help reduced any jepody to my own case. would this be deemed reasonable? it is important to me that i 'put back in the pot' and use my experience and docs used on my own journey as this may help others in a similiar situation to my own.

 

but in the meantime how do i get help with the drafts i have composed? i have been sitting on this quandary for a couple of weeks now and am getting desperate.

 

advice appreciated

[Guest]

lindyhop

is the court sending further info? were there any directions prior?

yes, they are applying for judgment without the need for a trial hearing. civil procedure rule 24 with associated practice direction outlines this. ie they will be trying to show that your defence submitted has no 'real prospect' (a SJ app'n is one of the poss probs when submitting an 'embarrassed' defence). so, you'll prob need to counter their application with a fuller defence/reasons to show 'real prospect'? you might have to explain away your initial defence, and hope that J takes into account further details in defence.

afaik, there is no allocation q for you to initiate?

if you need help with docs, then you'll prob have to post up. see what site team says about that.

as you rightly say, loyds have been known to look in on threads, and use them!

Edited May 16, 2013 by Ford