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    • The Notice to Hirer does not comply with the protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule  4 . This is before I ask if Europarks have sent you a copy of the PCN they sent to Arval along with a copy of the hire agreement et. if they haven't done that either you are totally in the clear and have nothing to worry about and nothing to pay. The PCN they have sent you is supposed to be paid by you according to the Act within 21 days. The chucklebuts have stated 28 days which is the time that motorists have to pay. Such a basic and simple thing . The Act came out in 2012 and still they cannot get it right which is very good news for you. Sadly there is no point in telling them- they won't accept it because they lose their chance to make any money out of you. they are hoping that by writing to you demanding money plus sending in their  unregulated debt collectors and sixth rate solicitors that you might be so frightened as to pay them money so that you can sleep at night. Don't be surprised if some of their letters are done in coloured crayons-that's the sort of  level of people you will be dealing with. Makes great bedding for the rabbits though. Euro tend not to be that litigious but while you can safely ignore the debt collectors just keep an eye out for a possible Letter of Claim. They are pretty rare but musn't be ignored. Let us know so that you can send a suitably snotty letter to them showing that you are not afraid of them and are happy to go to Court as you like winning.  
    • They did reply to my defence stating it would fail and enclosed copies of NOA, DN Term letter and account statements. All copies of T&C's that could be reconstructions and the IP address on there resolves to the town where MBNA offices are, not my location
    • Here are 7 of our top tips to help you connect with young people who have left school or otherwise disengaged.View the full article
    • My defence was standard no paperwork:   1.The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 2. Paragraph 1 is noted. The Defendant has had a contractual relationship with MBNA Limited in the past. The Defendant does not recognise the reference number provided by the claimant within its particulars and has sought verification from the claimant who is yet to comply with requests for further information. 3. Paragraph 2 is denied. The Defendant maintains that a default notice was never received. The Claimant is put to strict proof to that a default notice was issued by MBNA Limited and received by the Defendant. 4. Paragraph 3 is denied. The Defendant is unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment allegedly served from either the Claimant or MBNA Limited. 5. On the 02/01/2023 the Defendant requested information pertaining to this claim by way of a CCA 1974 Section 78 request. The claimant is yet to respond to this request. On the 19/05/2023 a CPR 31.14 request was sent to Kearns who is yet to respond. To date, 02/06/2023, no documentation has been received. The claimant remains in default of my section 78 request. 6. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of proof of assignment being sent/ agreement/ balance/ breach or termination requested by CPR 31.14, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to: (a) show how the Defendant entered into an agreement; and (b) show and evidence the nature of breach and service of a default notice pursuant to Section 87(1) CCA1974 (c) show how the claimant has reached the amount claimed for; and (d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim; 7. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed. 8. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974. 9. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.
    • Monika the first four pages of the Private parking section have at least 12 of our members who have also been caught out on this scam site. That's around one quarter of all our current complaints. Usually we might expect two current complaints for the same park within 4 pages.  So you are in good company and have done well in appealing to McDonalds in an effort to resolve the matter without having  paid such a bunch of rogues. Most people blindly pay up. Met . Starbucks and McDonalds  are well aware of the situation and seem unwilling to make it easier for motorists to avoid getting caught. For instance, instead of photographing you, if they were honest and wanted you  to continue using their services again, they would have said "Excuse me but if you are going to go to Mc donalds from here, it will cost you £100." But no they kett quiet and are now pursuing you for probably a lot more than £100 now. They also know thst  they cannot charge anything over the amount stated on the car park signs. Their claims for £160 or £170 are unlawful yet so many pay that to avoid going to Court. When the truth is that Met are unlikely to take them to Court since they know they will lose. The PCNs are issued on airport land which is covered by Byelaws so only the driver can be pursued, not the keeper. But they keep writing to you as they do not know who was driving unless you gave it away when you appealed. Even if they know you were driving they should still lose in Court for several reasons. The reason we ask you to fill out our questionnaire is to help you if MET do decide to take you to Court in the end. Each member who visited the park may well have different experiences while there which can help when filling out a Witness statement [we will help you with that if it comes to it.] if you have thrown away the original PCN  and other paperwork you obviously haven't got a jerbil or a guinea pig as their paper makes great litter boxes for them.🙂 You can send an SAR to them to get all the information Met have on you to date. Though if you have been to several sites already, you may have done that by now. In the meantime, you will be being bombarded by illiterate debt collectors and sixth rate solicitors all threatening you with ever increasing amounts as well as being hung drawn and quartered. Their letters can all be safely ignored. On the odd chance that you may get a Letter of Claim from them just come back to us and we will get you to send a snotty letter back to them so that they know you are not happy, don't care a fig for their threats and will see them off in Court if they finally have the guts to carry on. If you do have the original PCN could you please post it up, carefully removing your name. address and car registration number but including dates and times. If not just click on the SAR to take you to the form to send to Met.
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Fare underpaid, what will happen now?


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Hi there,

 

My girlfriend is going through the same sort of thing, although she went to the ticket office and asked for a return from Southampton to Leeds. The guy in the ticket office sold her a ticket which she paid for in full, but it wasn't until half way through the journey when a ticket inspector asked to see her ticket that she found out she had been given a Young Person's Rail Card discount - She doesn't have a YPRC so has no idea how she got the discount. The inspector said she had to pay the difference but she said no because she asked for a normal ticket and paid what she was asked to pay (plus she was a bit distressed as her father had been taken into hospital due to a serious accident - hence the travel to Leeds). Anyway, the inspector said he was going to make a report - My girlfriend thought this was a report into how she had been sold the wrong ticket - not something that was going to end up with her being summonsed to court with a possible criminal record! We don't know if she should plead guilty, guilty with mitigating circumstances (i.e it wasn't her fault the wrong ticket was given to her!) or plead innocence (as it wasn't her fault!) - The train company also haven't given the opportunity to pay the difference now this investigation is underway, which seems a bit sucky! Plus, they want to claim that she "intended to travel with the intent of not paying" (or something) which is rubbish because she did pay - what she was asked to pay at the ticket office!

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Hi there,

 

My girlfriend is going through the same sort of thing, although she went to the ticket office and asked for a return from Southampton to Leeds. The guy in the ticket office sold her a ticket which she paid for in full, but it wasn't until half way through the journey when a ticket inspector asked to see her ticket that she found out she had been given a Young Person's Rail Card discount - She doesn't have a YPRC so has no idea how she got the discount. The inspector said she had to pay the difference but she said no because she asked for a normal ticket and paid what she was asked to pay (plus she was a bit distressed as her father had been taken into hospital due to a serious accident - hence the travel to Leeds). Anyway, the inspector said he was going to make a report - My girlfriend thought this was a report into how she had been sold the wrong ticket - not something that was going to end up with her being summonsed to court with a possible criminal record! We don't know if she should plead guilty, guilty with mitigating circumstances (i.e it wasn't her fault the wrong ticket was given to her!) or plead innocence (as it wasn't her fault!) - The train company also haven't given the opportunity to pay the difference now this investigation is underway, which seems a bit sucky! Plus, they want to claim that she "intended to travel with the intent of not paying" (or something) which is rubbish because she did pay - what she was asked to pay at the ticket office!

 

I sympathise, but fear she is facing an uphill struggle.

I suspect she'd be able to plead "not guilty" up until the point she had the error pointed out to her, and had been asked to pay the correct fare.

 

Up until that point she was blameless : she didn't intend to avoid the correct fare. However, once she was asked for the correct fare, once she said "no" she is on less firm ground.

It wasn't her mistake, but a mistake had been made, and she hadn't paid the correct fare. One might ask "what was her intent once she had been made aware of the mistake and asked to pay the difference"?

 

CAG has an "industry expert" who hopefully will

spot this, and may be able to advise if there are 'industry guidelines' that cover events such as these.

 

A letter to the TOC explaining there was never an original intent to avoid a fare, highlighting her emotional state at the time, and offering to pay the fare difference and their administrative costs might find a way forward acceptable to all?

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I'm afraid that the advice that you have been given thus far is spot-on. I'm afraid it is the purchaser's responsibility to check and confirm that the ticket issued is the ticket requested

 

With the commonly heard complaint that rail fares are too high, surely your girlfriend would have checked how much she would have to pay for such a long journey before going to purchase the ticket?

 

Why didn't she query the substantially lower fare than that due for a 'walk-up' journey?

 

Once the incorrect fare and thus invalid ticket was detected, the on train staff were not obliged to offer an opportunity to pay the difference of fares, the rules say that a new ticket must be purchased. It appears that the member of staff that spoke to her gave her a chance to pay a much lower sum than that actually due.

 

Once your girlfriend refused to pay the fare due she runs the risk of being prosecuted for 'fare evasion'. Section 5 of the Regulation of Railways Act [1889] makes clear that if asked to pay, any person who has boarded a train without a valid rail ticket must pay the fare due on demand.

 

Which rail company service was your girlfriend travelling on when questioned?

Edited by Old-CodJA
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she was travelling on cross country trains and only refused to pay the difference as it was their error and she did not understand how she had done anything wrong, she did not know the usual price of this ticket as she had never travelled to Leeds on the train before, the fact she was sold a ticket with a discount without being asked for proof of entitlement or requesting a discount is just weird - does this not equate to her being given permission to travel on an invalid ticket by an employee of the rail company? - thank you for your help with this it is much appreciated.

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As in post #2. The law states that the onus is on the ticket holder to ensure the ticket is valid for the journey. It is not up to the conductor/inspector to ensure it.

 

It may sound unfair, but if it was the other way around, it would be all too easy to commit fraud and claim lower priced journeys or even free ones. On the train service near me (Wrexham - Bidston), hundreds of people get caught each year. Most times the conductor doesnt come round or doesnt get to the carriage in time, but recently theyve started getting random inspectors to board at different stops to check peoples tickets.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

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In hindsight, I now know that a little code (YP) in the corner stands for Young Person's Rail Card Discount ... How is the layman supposed to know about this. I know that when I get a train ticket, I look at the 'to' and 'from' destinations and if I'm returning on a different date, then I check that too - I don't really pay attention to anything stated on the ticket. I've read them before and it all seems pretty standard. If we (i.e people who do not work for rail companies) are supposed to check each detail on the ticket then they shouldn't be using codes to identify what the ticket is! Plus, how did the ticket office sales person sell this ticket without requesting valid identity? You get ID'd for cigarettes and alcohol (if you're lucky or underage!) and if you are underage and "get away with it" then it is the retail outlet that is punished, not the consumer! How is this any different? It should not be possible for an invalid ticket to be sold to somebody without the correct documentation. It should not be my girlfriend going through this but the ticket office person who obviously needs some training! (no pun intended!)

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In hindsight, I now know that a little code (YP) in the corner stands for Young Person's Rail Card Discount ... How is the layman supposed to know about this. I know that when I get a train ticket, I look at the 'to' and 'from' destinations and if I'm returning on a different date, then I check that too - I don't really pay attention to anything stated on the ticket. I've read them before and it all seems pretty standard. If we (i.e people who do not work for rail companies) are supposed to check each detail on the ticket then they shouldn't be using codes to identify what the ticket is! Plus, how did the ticket office sales person sell this ticket without requesting valid identity? You get ID'd for cigarettes and alcohol (if you're lucky or underage!) and if you are underage and "get away with it" then it is the retail outlet that is punished, not the consumer! How is this any different? It should not be possible for an invalid ticket to be sold to somebody without the correct documentation. It should not be my girlfriend going through this but the ticket office person who obviously needs some training! (no pun intended!)

 

The default setting on all ticket machines is 'adult single' and a specific request has to be made, whether verbally in the case of a ticket office or guard's mobile machine, or by press button selection' in the case of an ATM in order to get a discountred fare ticket.

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Like others have said, it is down to the customer to ensure that they have a valid ticket and it appears that the Train Manager has attempted to show some sympathy by simply allowing the passenger to pay the difference in fares whereas they would normally sell a whole new ticket in accordence with the National Rail Conditions of Carriage (NRCoC) as if no ticket were held, the Train Manager was simply asking her to pay the fare she should have paid in the first place, no extra. Unfortunately now this could be a straightforward prosecution under RoRA 1889 as the passenger failed to pay the correct fare upon demand or a straightforward Byelaw 18 prosecution for failing to show a valid ticket.

 

The TOC will be able to tell whether the ticket was sold at a ticket oiffice or whether it was purchased from a self service ticket machine, the only way that any damage can be limited now is if the OP can get the booking clerk who it is claimed sold the ticket to say so in writing.

Views expressed in this forum by me are my own personal opinion and you take it on face value! I make any comments to the best of my knowledge but you take my advice at your own risk.

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