IDS is misleading the public again!!!

[san_d]

Anybody that promises to break up the banks and reintroduce the concept of savings-based capitalism (vs debt-based capitalism) will get my vote but it ain't happen.

[TheLion]

I like this IDS quote from the BBC:

 

"I simply say that I don't agree that the way to get children out of poverty is to simply keep transferring more and more money to keep them out of work."

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21739607

 

It sounds like he wants to reintroduce child labour!!!

[dyfed]

In order to pay the £6.19 per hour, the employer has to raise the cost of their goods to the buyer. The buyer in turn passes this onto the consumer who is the person being paid £6.19. However that consumer person can no longer afford the commodity due to the price increase. A wage increase happens again, price of goods go up further, the consumer person is no better off and so the cycle is repeated. When does it stop? When the employer is paying £100, £200 per hour and with the goods now priced even further out of reach?

 

I dont know whether you have noticed but inflation is rocketing at the moment and wages are static. The price of goods will not increase by as much as you say because of a thing called competition.

 

The pay gap between the management and labourers has to be brought closer. Stop paying bonuses and huge salarys and hey presto no need to increase prices.

[Nystagmite]

I like this IDS quote from the BBC:

 

"I simply say that I don't agree that the way to get children out of poverty is to simply keep transferring more and more money to keep them out of work."

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21739607

 

It sounds like he wants to reintroduce child labour!!!

 

But what other option is there when there's no work out there? Especially work where there's enough hours for someone to come off JSA and not need to sign on.

[dyfed]

I am a long term unemployed and I hate this and the previous govermnment but I'd like to see the NMW abolished. It has created a black market of people willing to work for less and cash in hand. At the moment most jobs in retail and service sectors go to foreign (non EU) students who nominally work part-time but get cash in hand to work full-time. How can you beat that?

 

I'd like to see NMW abolished but tax free income up to £20k a year. My opinion.

 

Yes and I would like to see rape and murder being illegal.

 

If the government sets a minimum wage in law then every employer will have to abide by the law or face prosecution. Its a bit of a cop out saing "oh well what can you do". Cash in hand, prostetution, slavery are all illegal in britain so what about NMW?

[dyfed]

Interesting points.

The Tories doing things because they know they won't last long? What a short memory you have. How many years of the Tories did we have last time?

 

Labour are just as much to blame as the Tories for the banking crisis if not more so.

 

The minimum wage argument saying that it will cause inflation,well since it has been introduced we have had low inflation. Who remembers the 70s, where was the minimum wage then. There are many costs that increase with no account for the labour costs,oil.steel.utilities.

 

The banks do pay huge bonuses but they get spent,sadly maybe on imports but also on local goods and services.

 

Most arguments have two sides.

 

Plutocracy and bankers are to blame for the banking crisis. However if you would like to blame any one person then blame thatcher because she fired the starting pistol on big investment banking.

[dyfed]

We need a PM who knows what they're talking about and one who isn't intent on screwing up the country.

 

 

A tall order considering we live in a plutocracy and your government are mere puppets.

[dyfed]

Capitalism is broken, so there is no answer.

 

\0/ YAAYYY!!! We have a winner!

I agree with you.

[dyfed]

but we can afford to give millionaires tax cuts and billions away to other countries.

 

 

The billions are not given to other countrys out of the kindness of their hearts. They dont have a heart.

Foreign aid buys political influence. You heard of cash for questions? Well foerign aid is cash for votes, eg UNSC buys votes from India, a non perminant member, for britain to invade Iraq.

 

If any british government of any colour had some compassion for innocent women and children then why would they impose sanctions that cause pain, suffering and death to millions?

[fletch70]

San d where is your evidence that most retail and service sector jobs are being done cash in hand?

 

I am sorry but i think that is a comment worthy of the DM. Most retail and service sector jobs i suspect are created by. big organisations who no longer pay cash in hand.

Remember if a small company pays cash they have to account for it somewhere.

[fletch70]

You also have to agree that it's wrong to be having a second generation of people who see living on benefits as a valid way of life. Even when there was low unemployment there will still be a hard core like that.

My OH has a very radical view. If you are on JSA you should be applying full time for jobs,if not you should be doing community based work and if not then no benefits. If you are on no benefits children get taken into care.

Not saying I agree with all of that but he has a point.

[osdset]

Not just IDS, I've had a theory for a while now that the events we are seeing now were planned many years ago, before the banking crisis.

Leaders not just in this country got together and decided capitalism was on it's way out unless drastic measures were taken to prevent it, without capitalism the cosy world of the 1% falls apart.

 

The answer arrived with the fall of communism, it was not hard to realise that borders would come down and free access to live and work across Europe would be a reality, so an ideal time to let the (costly) indigenous population of the western world slowly fall into starvation and decay, after all there would be millions of cheap and willing workers waiting to fill the void.

 

Our government cares little for the British population as a whole, it matters not to them where the services and workers they rely on come from or what language they speak, so long as they work for less and don't complain.

 

The playboy habits of the top tier of society will still be maintained, these people do not mix with 'ordinary' folk anyway, life will go on as usual.

 

Conspiracy theory? Maybe, but it's the only answer that makes any sense to me.

[fletch70]

A theory i am familiar with but disagree with. IMHO it is not so planned. Civilisations rise and fall. China fell and is now rising the great Civilisations of pre history fell. Maybe its our turn.

[dyfed]

You also have to agree that it's wrong to be having a second generation of people who see living on benefits as a valid way of life. Even when there was low unemployment there will still be a hard core like that.

My OH has a very radical view. If you are on JSA you should be applying full time for jobs,if not you should be doing community based work and if not then no benefits. If you are on no benefits children get taken into care.

Not saying I agree with all of that but he has a point.

 

By the governments own figures its a very low percentage of free loaders.

[dyfed]

Not just IDS, I've had a theory for a while now that the events we are seeing now were planned many years ago, before the banking crisis.

Leaders not just in this country got together and decided capitalism was on it's way out unless drastic measures were taken to prevent it, without capitalism the cosy world of the 1% falls apart.

 

The answer arrived with the fall of communism, it was not hard to realise that borders would come down and free access to live and work across Europe would be a reality, so an ideal time to let the (costly) indigenous population of the western world slowly fall into starvation and decay, after all there would be millions of cheap and willing workers waiting to fill the void.

 

Our government cares little for the British population as a whole, it matters not to them where the services and workers they rely on come from or what language they speak, so long as they work for less and don't complain.

 

The playboy habits of the top tier of society will still be maintained, these people do not mix with 'ordinary' folk anyway, life will go on as usual.

 

Conspiracy theory? Maybe, but it's the only answer that makes any sense to me.

 

Maybe it is the Bilderburgers. I agree with you and its more conspiracy fact me thinks

[dyfed]

A theory i am familiar with but disagree with. IMHO it is not so planned. Civilisations rise and fall. China fell and is now rising the great Civilisations of pre history fell. Maybe its our turn.

 

Hmmm I am not too sure. Take communist Russia for example. It was UNITED STATES and its western allies that brought soviet Russia to an end. Not everything is as it seems.

[fletch70]

Just like the Spanish finished off the great south American Civilisatio

 

Low percentage or not it is still too high.

[dyfed]

Just like the Spanish finished off the great south American Civilisatio

 

Low percentage or not it is still too high.

 

Umm no its very low percentage. Like around 1.5%.

If you put this in context. The bankers bonuses are more. Mps expenses are more. Tax avoidence is much more.

 

The whole thing is driven by tory ideolgy and nothing more.

what you see on the tv and read in the papers is propaganda bull. Designed to demonize benefit claiments as benfit cheats. To get the public on side before making huge cuts sending families into poverty and on to the street.

[Consumer dude]

i personally think they are all the same..we'd be better running the country ourselves without them

 

Now your talking my language. Any demand to support a plutocracy should be met with 'sorry no contract'

[RaeUK]

Now your talking my language...

 

Right. We have joeski, Ruby, Consumer and myself. Probably not quite enough to overthrow the country. Anyone else in? ...

[estellyn]

Right. We have joeski, Ruby, Consumer and myself. Probably not quite enough to overthrow the country. Anyone else in? ...

 

What about me??? Don't leave for the revolution without me!

[bigissue]

IDS is not an by any means an intellectual, he probably does believe his point of view is correct but it is lead by ideological dogma which he slavishly follows. He does not have the intellect to truly think for himself he is something of a "useful idiot" to the free market capitalists who really run the show. I think most people know this except perhaps IDS himself.

[Surfer01]

Capitalism is broken, so there is no answer.

Actually there is an answer and that is to make it difficult to obtain credit so that the whole system becomes more cash based. At the moment when applying for credit they look at past history and a decision is based on that criteria instead of more important criteria like can the applicant afford it. Before extending credit, priority debts like council tax, rent, utilities should be taken into account and then credit granted taking into consideration any current debts. At the moment credit is granted based on the gross amount you earn and not the net amount.

For example if you earned £1400 per month gross but net income was £1140 minus £100 council tax, £600 rent/mortgage, £100 utilities and £280 for food. This then means you could safely borrow £1000 over 36 months with a repayment of £40 per month. When we borrowed we used this as a basis to determine if we could afford the repayments. Sadly lenders will look at net income, credit history and then make a decision. Credit is very easy in the UK.

If we, including businesses, borrowed less, interest payments are less which increases the spending power of your money plus wages can be improved annually as your employer does not have to borrow plus pay interest. Just a thought!

[san_d]

Cash in hand, prostetution, slavery are all illegal in britain so what about NMW?

 

You've just named three items that are punished in theory but will never go away because they're built-in in every society.

 

When I did have a job I was earning way more that NMW, I couldn't care less about it. I was in higher league, so to speak. Now that I a perfect nobody I would happily work for £5 an hour but I can't because there are people (the above mentioned extra-EU students) who work for £2 ph. Yes, it is illegal but it's in nobody's interest to prosecute their employers.

 

I am not anti-capitalist like many here, actually I'm a firm believer in classic capitalism and free market, but there's no free market any more. The economy is ruled by the banks, when they win they collect the gain, when they lose the taxpayer has to bail them out. This is not capitalism, if the banks fail they must go bankrupt like any of us.

[worried33]

In order to pay the £6.19 per hour, the employer has to raise the cost of their goods to the buyer. The buyer in turn passes this onto the consumer who is the person being paid £6.19. However that consumer person can no longer afford the commodity due to the price increase. A wage increase happens again, price of goods go up further, the consumer person is no better off and so the cycle is repeated. When does it stop? When the employer is paying £100, £200 per hour and with the goods now priced even further out of reach?

 

That is the trap.

 

Effectively what is needed is to regulate profits so eg. make it illegal to raise prices when making billions a year in profit.

 

However that goes against the principles of capitalism so will never happen in this country.

 

Essentially I am saying capitalism is the problem, it is flawed and broken and will only work to serve the few.