Sale of goods act - second hand car

[incognitoo]

I'll summarise to keep this as short as possible:

 

Bought car and collected on Monday.

On Friday, thought I had a flat tyre, took to tyre garage, alloy wheel cracked in many places. Garage said cracks looked old. Also, had a weld, showing signs of previous repair.

 

Called garage i bought car from.

Salesman initially very helpful, asking me to email photo of wheel, so he could replace.

Sent email saying "I am sourcing a wheel for you"

 

Chased up later - boss refused to replace wheel (cost of £530, plus tyre at £300)

 

I stated this wasn't acceptable.

Wouldn't budge.

 

Offered instead to collect the wheel and "repair"

It has many cracks, tyre garage says repair is impossible / unsafe

Also, no spare wheel (car has runflats) - so sending wheel obviously renders car un-usable.

 

Car was sold with MOT put on car a day before I collected it.

Tyre garage asked an off-duty VOSA inspector to take a look - he said it shouldn't of passed MOT and to appeal the MOT cert (he was off duty- but that is his job)

 

 

I've informed the garage of my position.

Basically, that I believe under the sale of goods act, the garage has a duty to replace the wheel, since repair would be impossible.

 

What should I do?

They're asking for the wheel back, but i need VOSA to inspect first to see if MOT is invalid?

[dx100uk]

tell the garage then vosa is involved

 

go get 'em!

 

ask if they wish to 'settle' before you take things further, like dodgy MOT

 

take the car back, give me my money back and i'll do no more............

 

dx

[incognitoo]

tell the garage then vosa is involved

 

go get 'em!

 

ask if they wish to 'settle' before you take things further, like dodgy MOT

 

take the car back, give me my money back and i'll do no more............

 

dx

 

 

Sale of goods act says I have to give time for them to fix it-

What's reasonable though?

I use the car for work- cant get to work at the moment!

 

Am having to face forking out £850 to fix - should I do so and claim back?

[dx100uk]

no it dont its within 7 days

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/business-advice/treating-customers-fairly/sogahome/forcustomers

 

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/consumer_e/consumer1_cars_and_other_vehicles_e/cars_buying_a_secondhand_car_e.htm

 

dx

[incognitoo]

Hi,

Please help!

 

Here's the facts (bullet pointed for brevity)

• Bought new car last week.
  
• 5 Days later, thought i had a puncture (bad luck, i thought!) took to tyre garage, they racked it up, inspected, and showed me the wheel. Cracked in 5 places. Showed signs of previous repair (welding)
  
• Called garage I bought from. Salesman initially very helpful. Said woud replace wheel. Asked me to email photo to confirm style
  
• Emailed photo, had reply saying "I am sourcing you a wheel"
  
• Received email later asking me to return the broken wheel for repair.
  
• I said I didn't want it repaired - it has weakness, and will always be unsafe I feel (having researched)
  
• Backed down, saying it was that or nothing.
  

 

The car had a brand new MOT on it the day before i collected it, from, you guessed it, the garage i bought it from.

 

It was left at the tyre garage for several days, during which time, a VOSA inspector took a look at the car (is friends with owner of tyre garage) and said to make an official appointment as it should never of had an MOT due to the pre-existing cracks with the wheel.

 

I contacted VOSA, and they have taken details etc... but can't give me a time when someone will take a look.

 

The garage is still requesting I return the wheel.

 

However- i'm in a predicament.

What do I do?

 

If i send the wheel, I effectively lose the evidence, and any potential claim with VOSA?

 

However, I am aware that under the Sale Of Goods Act, I have to give them the chance to put things right.

But i know, as soon as they get it, they'll continue the "its your fault" thread, and stick with it, saying i caused the damage...

 

Rock and a hard place!

(I am prepared to go all the way to court with this, I KNOW I did not cause the wheel to break!!)

Edited July 31, 2012 by incognitoo
formatting

[rebel11]

Hi in

 

Welcome to CAG

 

Here's some info:- http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/676408/oft1241.pdf

 

The guys will be happy to advise as soon as they are available.

 

Please let us know how your problem has been resolved, it could help fellow Caggers.

[incognitoo]

Thanks

Sorted the formatting in original post!

 

Ok- so shall I call the OFT tomorrow?

 

I certainly will keep you updated!

[dx100uk]

i would suspect under soga you can reject the car totally.

as its within a few days.

 

how did you pay?

dx

[incognitoo]

Ideally, if possible, I'd rather keep the car - just want it put right!

 

Paid on finance- the unfortunate thing is, i withdrew from the agreement literally the day before this problem occurred, as found a cheaper loan! Pretty annoying!

[incognitoo]

Anyone?

[incognitoo]

Bought car just over 3 weeks ago.

 

Had brand new MOT (issued by garage) 49,000 miles, BMW 3 series. £21k

 

5 days, and 300 miles later after buying it, was driving home from work, when I thought I got a puncture (car shaking from rear wheel)

Got it home, and looked at it - was definately a flat tyre.

Car had run-flats, so took to tyre garage.

When they took tyre off, they invited me to look at the wheel.

 

It was completely cracked.

Had been previously repaired (twice) - the cracks had gone through the existing welds!

And 2 new cracks also!

 

I rang the dealer I bought it from. Sales manager was very apologetic, assured me it would be put right. Told me to email photo of the wheel, which I duly did.

Emailed me back, saying he was sourcing a wheel.

 

Later that afternoon, he said his boss would not authorise it, and to send the wheel back via courier, and they would repair it.

He was unavailable for another 5 days, however. This would mean my car off the road for at least that amount of time.

I'm self employed, and require the car to get to work! So I said I couldn't do without car.

No help offered.

Secondly, I really wasn't comfortable with the wheel being repaired again... the repair (which i had no idea about) had failed - imagine if that had happened at speed!

 

The tyre garage the car was at said that in their opinion, I should get VOSA to check it out, as the wheel looked like it had been damaged some time ago.

I was obviously worried what other faults may be with the car, since the garage i bought it from put the MOT on the day before I collected.

 

VOSA were arranged for the following week. They instructed me NOT to send the wheel back.

 

Been arguing via email for almost 2 weeks, now they haven't responded for 10 days.

 

Thankfully, VOSA found no other serious safety concerns with the car.

A rep from the garage came to watch the re-inspection, and also to inspect the wheel.

 

The dealer is now saying they won't replace the wheel, as I must have driven over a pot-hole causing the damage.

Also, they say i obstructed them trying to repair it by getting VOSA involved.

My primary concern was for my safety!

 

I haven't hit any pot holes.

I'm a careful driver. Never had any points on my license, and to be honest, feel well and truly stitched up.

 

What do I do from here?

 

I've spent so long dealing with this (emails, phone calls) and I now feel I should also be entitled to some kind of compensation as well as replacing my wheel..

 

I'm particularly annoyed they backed out of their original offer (in writing) of replacing the wheel!

The director is saying he didn't have the authority to offer that... but he was perfectly allowed to sell me the car 5 days earlier?!

[sailor sam]

I would contact your nearest BMW dealer and get a price on a new wheel then send the seller a formal letter requesting that they cover the cost of replacing the wheel as confirmed in their letter. The fact that the salesman had no authority to make you the offer is irrelevant... the offer was made by them as far as you are concerned and they must now honour it. Further more, VOSA have advised that the wheel is beyond repair so it must be replaced.

 

Alternatively you will replace the wheel yourself and then pursue them for the cost in the small claims court if necessary. Give them a 7 day time limit for the date of your letter and send it by recorded delivery.

 

Let us know if and what response you get.

[incognitoo]

I did this when they told me to send it back!

(Via email)

 

Luckily, I was able to borrow a wheel from someone at work who had one as he was getting his de-curbed

 

That's my thought - irrelevant if he had the "authority"

 

Majorly inconvenienced me by making himself unavailable to discuss for almost a week!

 

Unfortunately, I paid for car on finance, which I withdrew from the day after (found a cheaper loan! unbelievable luck!)

 

I'm so angry about this whole situation!!

 

 

Under SOGA - the burden of proof is reversed-

How would they go about proving it was fine when it left them - it states an MOT isn't sufficient?

just trying to get an idea of how they might try and tell me it was fine??

[sailor sam]

Well I would imagine the cracks are only obvious once the tyre is removed so would not be picked up on an MOT. At the end of the day you have the offer in writing from them which would satisfy a judge I would of thought. I would not be messing around and would make it clear that unless they cough for a new wheel then you will see them in court. VOSA say it is not repairable so that leaves just one option. Under SOGA, they must prove that the wheel was not faulty when you purchased the car. Obviously I don't think they will be able to do that but in any event by sending you the offer, they are admitting liability so this should be an easy claim.

[incognitoo]

Yeah... I only got VOSA involved due to the garage being unprofessional-

Started worrying what else they'd been unprofessional about, and missed something on the MOT!

 

They're telling me i didn't give them a fair chance to put it right:

But he told me he wasn't available for 5 days! I had to do something?!

 

I have legal cover on my home insurance so i'll see if they can help tomorrow.

 

Will keep you updated

[sailor sam]

Yeah... I only got VOSA involved due to the garage being unprofessional-

Started worrying what else they'd been unprofessional about, and missed something on the MOT!

 

They're telling me i didn't give them a fair chance to put it right:

But he told me he wasn't available for 5 days! I had to do something?!

 

I have legal cover on my home insurance so i'll see if they can help tomorrow.

 

Will keep you updated

 

Apart from replacing the wheel, how did they intend to 'put it right?' They cannot repair it so what else can they do but replace it?

 

Do you have the VOSA report in writing?

[incognitoo]

Well, that's what I said!

They didn't believe me the wheel was a write off (personally I would never repair a wheel or a tyre!)

So had to "see" it before they acted

(only said this AFTER offer of replacement was made)

 

All the VOSA report says is that the wheel (now located in boot) was a failure.

But yes, have everything in writing. and keeping everything noted!

 

I have a feeling this may go to court

[sailor sam]

Well, that's what I said!

They didn't believe me the wheel was a write off (personally I would never repair a wheel or a tyre!)

So had to "see" it before they acted

(only said this AFTER offer of replacement was made)

 

All the VOSA report says is that the wheel (now located in boot) was a failure.

But yes, have everything in writing. and keeping everything noted!

 

I have a feeling this may go to court

 

You need to send them a LBA (letter before action) first to give them the option of sorting it out. I suggest you make it clear that you will use their written offer to replace as evidence to support your claim and give the just 7 days to respond. Indicate that should you take it to court, you will be claiming interest plus all court fees so it will be expensive for them.

[incognitoo]

Cool.

Drafted my LBA

My home insurance has legal cover on it too, and they are advising me too.

 

Have got a body shop to write a report saying that the wheel shouldn't have been repaired in the first place.

Just waiting for another few alloy wheel repair specialists to give their opinion!

[incognitoo]

I've had a lot of trouble with a car I bought In July

 

5 days after I bought it, the rear wheel failed, and I took it to a tyre garage thinking it was just a flat tyre.

The garage showed me the damage - a cracked wheel.

Not only that, the wheel was cracked through previous welds.

 

I contacted the place i bought the car, who said (in writing) that they'd replace the wheel.

 

The boss then retracted this, saying I drove the car on an underinflated tyre, causing the damage

(I had the car 5 days, 400 miles.... so that's "incorrect" shall we say)

 

Been arguing this with them for several weeks, they're refusing to help me.

I told them that under the sale of goods act, they have an obligation to put it right.

And that the burden of proof was reversed for 6 months - ie, it's up to them to prove the wheel wasn't like that when I was sold it (which it clearly was... i had the thing for 5 days!!)

 

Anyway, I've had various experts look at the wheel, all of whom agree the weld was not satisfactory

BMW even said they would NEVER weld repair a wheel.

 

It now looks like it is going to go to court.

 

I've sent an LBA to the garage, which has gone ignored.

 

How much should I claim?

Can I claim for time in dealing with this issue?

Do I need a solicitor?

 

Any advice you can give is greatly received.

[CHRIS44G]

Why oh why don`t they just put you a new wheel on? Unbelivably dangerous, you`d think they`d fall over themselves to fit a new one, wouldn`t cost `em much, far easier to deal with than the aggro they`ll get when you take them to the small claims court....I`d fit a new wheel & tyre and claim the full cost. Should be a straightforward claim,bet they back down before it goes to court.

[incognitoo]

That's my thoughts exactly!

 

I was so angry when I found out.

They're trying to say it was me who damaged the wheel by driving it on a flat tyre...

 

a) they're run flat tyres

b) the flat tyre was caused by the shoddy weld breaking

 

I mean... what would of happened if it had happened at any kind of speed!

I should have done the lottery that night - this happened very close to my house, and i was able to 'limp' to a garage!

[CHRIS44G]

If it`s a "run flat" wheel and tyre they`ve found out how much they are and are trying to get out of it I reckon. Doesn`t bear thinking about what would happen if a welded up wheel broke up at speed.

[incognitoo]

yeah, basically it's £535 for the wheel, and £300 ish for the tyre!

 

But i've spent HOURS on this, arguing with them, back-forth to garage etc...

I'm wondering if I can claim for my time too?

 

Perhaps rejecting the car for a "price reduction" of say £1200 would be more appropriate?

 

Anyone got any experience of this?

[sailor sam]

You have it in writing that they will replace the wheel? Then get them to honour the offer or say you will take them to court... simples. If you have a letter from them which is on their headed paper and signed, then you are home and dry.

 

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