Cash4phones Problem

[ericsbrother]

As you say the phone has been trashed then you need to decide whether it is worth continuing with this. Your problem is proving that the phone was in a decent condition when it arrived with them rather than the condition it is in now. The value of your loss due to their actions is then the sticking point. Your current costs offer no advantage in settling for their offer so you need to set out that you did attempt to settle the matter beforehand and that their terms and conditions are not visible and thus unfair. By visible it is meant either on the opening web page or one click away. Mediation can work if you think that the company are determined to stick to their guns as it will make them look intransigent.

I dont see the need to make a counter offer as a norm, it looks like that they are exploiting and abusing their T&C's to put people off asking for the return of their property. Dont mention this though util your claim goes to court

[Speck1965]

"By visible it is meant either on the opening web page or one click away."

 

Yes, this is where I hope to gain, there are two tabs on their website, one is FAQ's, the other is entitled "how it works". Either of these would be a good place to mention the £8.95 or the fact that they may make a counter offer, but its not there. It is in the T&Cs and I did click a box saying I accept them

 

Be aware that Cash4phones are almost certainly following this thread.

[BankFodder]

I suggest that you follow the instructions to amend your claim.

Also, get screenshots of heir website so that it is clear that the return fee is not mentioned. Do that now before anything might change.

 

I don't suppose that you have any record of all the varying versions which they have given you over the phone.

 

I suggest that you make a detailed statement now as to everything which has been said - including dates and times. Keep it safe

 

Amend your claim and then proceed to trial. As long as you have screenshots of all of the other similar complaints you have found on the Web, I think that you have a good chance of success.

 

If you get a judgment then we will publish it here and circulate it in our newsletter which reaches about 300,000 people. I expect that Martin Lewis will be interested as well and his newsletter goes out to millions.

 

I'm going to say again that it is a shame that you need to go through the hassle of amending the claim. It was so obvious that the condition of the phone was the central issue - the only one - and even you referred to it in your first post - yet you didn't bother to say anything about it in your claim.

 

You've made a rod for your own back on this one - but you may as well carry on because you have a very good chance of success.

 

 

The best thing that C4P could do is to pay you the money - and they can chalk it up to experience.

[Speck1965]

You probably are not going to like this but I am not going to amend the claim. I appreciate your advice and I fully understand why you feel it should be done, but it is just not viable. I am claiming a total of £87.50, to pay £60 to amend it just does not make sense, even if I can claim it back. I am going ahead on my original statement, as flawed as it is. I hope you can still offer advice based on this.

 

Thanks

[Speck1965]

I don't suppose that you have any record of all the varying versions which they have given you over the phone.

YES, FULLY DOCUMENTED IN EMAILS THEY HAVE SENT ME.

 

As long as you have screenshots of all of the other similar complaints you have found on the Web, I think that you have a good chance of success.

YES, GOT THE SCREENSHOTS, AND A HUGE LIST OF POSTS MADE BY OTHER DISGRUNTLED C4P CUSTOMERS.

[BankFodder]

Well in that case - at least they have helped you because their big litigation mistake was to raise the issue of the condition of the phone in their defence. They should have asked me how to draft their defence before they filed it. Tough.

 

I would suggest that you now serve a reply to their defence.

 

This means that you serve them with a formal document in which you counter the points raised in their defence - even though you may not have raised them in your initial claim.

 

 

Keep it brief and to the point - not some schoolboy essay style as they have done.

 

Do it in short numbered paragraphs but make sure that you deal with the issue which they have raised as to the condition of the phone.

 

I suggest that you prepare something and post it here before you send it off.

[Speck1965]

Ok, thanks. Will knock something up and post ASAP.

[Speck1965]

Right, just put this together as a first draft, nothing been sent yet............

 

 

I refer to your undated and unsigned defence statement received 14th March 2013 in reference to my claim No. 3QTXXXXX.

 

• The price offered, or “quote” as you refer to it as, of £51.00 was more or less in line with what other phone recycling companies were offering, albeit your offer was a few pence higher. Nothing on your website lead me to believe that this price would be altered or re negotiated for any reason.

 

• The phone was sent to you and was in pristine condition, having spent its life in a soft rubber case. You claim that your system generated a counter offer because, in your words “the screen was literally tearing away from the handset”. This is simply untrue. You reduced your offer to £17.86 because you claimed it had excessive scratching. I have a copy of the email documented as proof. When this excessive scratching claim was challenged you offered to take another look and then claimed that the screen had been glued, you sent photos and it does indeed appear that someone has glued the screen cover, but it was most definitely not in that condition when despached.

You now are claiming that the screen is tearing away from the handset. As the photos you sent clearly show the screen attached perfectly to the handset then it is quite obvious that the “tearing away” has happened whilst the phone was in your care. I have copies of the photos as evidence.

 

• At no point during the transaction was any mention made of the return fee of £8.95. In particular, two sections of your website entitled “FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions) and “How it works”, were thoroughly read through and there is no mention of such a fee. This is where I would expect to find such an important and relevant piece of information. Screen shots of your website have been taken as evidence.

 

• You claim that I was unwilling to work with you to a compromise. Another untruth. I sent you many emails to try to come to a compromise but you ignored most of them. I have documented evidence of this. I also made many phone calls, again documented in relation to time date and duration. Despite all of this you refused to shift from you original offer of £17.86. The court action only became necessary because your employee by the name of “Lawrence” was quite adamant that £17.86 was the final offer and that I would have to go to the courts or accept it.

 

• I agree that you did offer to return the handset to me using standard post and at my risk. This was refused for two reasons. (1) Had the phone not arrived for any reason then I would have lost both my phone and its sale price. (2) The phone had clearly been damaged, either deliberately or accidently, whilst in you care.

 

• Despite your point blank refusal to increase your offer of £17.86 prior to instigation of court proceedings, you now offer £30.00 in your defence statement. This is a long way short of your original “quote” and also does not address my expenses in bringing this action, therefore this offer is declined.

[BankFodder]

I think that your reply is over-long.

How about this.

 

You only have to make the points. The rest of it you save as arguments to be used in the trial.

 

In the XXXX county court

claim no.XXXXXX

 

Between

Speck

claimant

 

and

 

C4P

defendant

 

 

 

Reply to defence

 

It is admitted that the initial price is a quote, as described

It is denied that the phone was in substandard condition. The phone was in pristine condition when it was sent to the defendant.

It is denied that the defendant's return fee is brought to the notice of their customers in advance

It is admitted that the claimant refused to accept the return of the phone. This was because the claimant no longer had confidence that the phone would be returned in the pristine condition in which it was in when it was sent to the defendant.

The claimant has found numerous instances of identical complaints against the defendant

 

 

I believe that the facts stated above are true

 

Signed

 

Date

I'm a bit troubled by their insistence that their return fee is published somewhere. I think that you should double-check very carefully. It seems strange to me that they would make such a confident assertion about this very simple matter if it were untrue. Are you sure that you haven't missed it somewhere. It would be better to discover it now than to come out with egg on your face. The issue of the return fee is not the central issue and it doesn't matter very much if you are mistaken - but better to find out now and to surrender the point now rather than to suffer the embarrassment of losing the point in court.

 

Have you made any contact with anyone else yet?

[Speck1965]

The £8.95 return fee is mentioned in the Terms & Conditions, this was mentioned by me in my very first post. Does this render your line 3 null and void?

Who would I have made contact with? Am I missing a subliminal message here?

 

Cheers.

[BankFodder]

On their website there are sections entitled "how it works" and "FAQ's". No where in these sections is the £8.95 return fee mentioned. No where on their initial email offering the £51.00 was this fee mentioned. Yes, it is in their T&Cs and yes I did check a box saying I agreed, but I still find this underhand.

I don't know why, I hadn't twigged that the fee was mentioned. Clearly I didn't digest your opening post thoroughly enough.

Also, I was mislead by your claim which specifically says that the fee was not mentioned - but now I see that it was.

 

I think that it is getting more and more complicated because your claim is so wide of the mark.

 

Still, I supposed that you may as well continue - but yes it has a big effect on my suggested para.3

 

 

It would now have to read

 

In the XXXX county court

claim no.XXXXXX

 

Between

Speck

claimant

 

and

 

C4P

defendant

 

 

 

Reply to defence

 

 

1. It is admitted that the initial price is a quote, as described
   
2. It is denied that the phone was in substandard condition. The phone was in pristine condition when it was sent to the defendant.
   
3. It is admitted that the defendant's return fee is brought to the notice of their customers in advance, but not in a manner which was clear and which afforded the information due prominence given the importance of the provision.
   
4. Regardless of this, the central issue is that the claimant supplied a phone in perfect condition to the defendant but which they later claimed was sent to them in damaged condition.
   
5. It is admitted that the claimant refused to accept the return of the phone. This was because the claimant no longer had confidence that the phone would be returned in the pristine condition in which it was in when it was sent to the defendant.
   
6. The claimant has found numerous instances of identical complaints against the defendant
   

 

 

I believe that the facts stated above are true

 

Signed

 

Date

[Speck1965]

OK, will get this typed up and away.

 

I am also in the process of completing the Allocation Questionaire and it raises a couple of questions.

 

Question A asks if I would like to the free small claims mediation service, I am minded to tick the YES box, do you have any thoughts either way?

 

Question B asks "Is there any reason why the case needs to be heard at a particular court?" If I tick the NO box will it automatically allocate to my local court?

 

Cheers.

[BankFodder]

Normally I would say no to mediation - but in this case, I think that you should say yes.

 

Say that you want it heard in your local court because you are a private individual and they are a company.

Don't just tick the no box

[Speck1965]

Ok thanks.

 

Just discovered that they have paid £17.86 into my account today. This flys directly in the face of their own defence in which they state.....

"We will hold all payments until we know whether to return the handset or pay accordingly"

[Speck1965]

Ok, been a while but here is an update. Just had a call from Jackie at Cash4phones, seems they have caved in. Full amount to be paid into my account.

 

She apologised that it had been allowed to go this far.

 

A bitter sweet victory?

[BankFodder]

Well done- does this take in all costs etc?

 

If not, don't withdraw the claim.

 

Don't withdraw the claim until you have all the money in cleared funds.

[Speck1965]

Yes, they have agreed to pay the claim in it entirety, and I will not withdraw the claim until the money is in the bank.

[BankFodder]

Well done.

 

Let's hope that others in the same boat find this thread through Google so that they know what do do.

[Speck1965]

Hope so, thats why I said the victory was bitter sweet, they are free to carry on ripping off other unsuspecting victims.

If you have found this thread via a Google search then do not take it lying down, complain and if necessary take court action.

 

Thanks everyone who helped, particularly bank fodder, it is very much appreciated.

[BankFodder]

Another similar complaint here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?388900-legal-rights-recycling-mobile-phone-cash4phones.co.uk-HELP-needed

[Brownguy53]

thanks

[Janmccombie]

Maybe we should all form a group and take legal action against them together, seems to me that the way every story is told you cannot win you either get offered a reduced price for your phone or get your phone back damaged.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Janmccombie

[Speck1965]

Maybe we should all form a group and take legal action against them together, seems to me that the way every story is told you cannot win you either get offered a reduced price for your phone or get your phone back damaged.

 

Cannot win? Rubbish!

Read this entire thread and you will see that I won.

They rely on people backing down and caving in. Occasionally some people, such as myself, don't back down or cave in. They know they are wrong so they pay up.

Please please please take them through the small claims procedure, get this **** company to pay up. It is so easy to do. You can do it all online.

[BankFodder]

Janmccombie I have moved your post to a new thread - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?395336-Another-Cash4phones-Problem so that you can receive advice more easily

 

Please will everyone use their own thread for their own story.

[mrsmhrogers]

Do you have to pay for small claims? I am currently contacting trading standards and watchdog regarding their [causing problems]..