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    • The sticky thread is locked because it's just a template thread. We need to see the invoice you're disputing. And for you to answer the questions below (I'm guessing this is an ANPR capture, the vast majority of tickets are) -   For PCN's received through the post [ANPR camera capture] (must be received within 14 days from the Incident)   Please answer the following questions.   1 Date of the infringement Give answer here   2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] Give answer here   [scan up BOTH SIDES as ONE PDF- follow the upload guide] please LEAVE IN LOCATION AND ALL DATES/TIMES/£'s   3 Date received Give answer here   4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] Give answer here   5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Give answer here   6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] Give answer here   Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up Give answer here   7 Who is the parking company? Give answer here   8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Give answer here   For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. Give answer here   There are two official bodies, the BPA and the IAS. If you are unsure, please check HERE   If you have received any other correspondence, please mention it here   Copy the windscreen or ANPR section to your thread and answer the questions... …….... In either case scan up both sides of any letters/tickets in or appeals made out to ONE MULTIPAGE PDF ONLY
    • Perfect, thanks Dave.   You're right, a whole dodo storm this has been. As sons of first-generation immigrant parents, whenever something like this happens the old man panics. There was a whole "appeal this now" because my dad paid for the parking as he was with the hirer at the time and he isn't as tech-savvy as my brother so he ended up doing what he did and because I don't live there anymore it came all the way down to this.  But yes, we'll do this SAR and see what comes of it.  Will keep posting here with the hopes that it may benefit someone in the future.  Thanks again, everyone. 
    • saying the thread is locked, what shall I do?
    • Please fill in the forum sticky and upload a copy of the invoice, redacted of anything that could identify you -  
    • first time to use this forum, so a bit clueless got a PCN from Horizon, saying that "exceeded ma stay period" any template for me to make appeal please?
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TK Maxx accident - RLP letter - advice welcome


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Hello all,

 

I'd like advice on my situation if you'd be so kind as to indulge me. Forgive me, I've written an awful lot!

 

Last Wednesday (20th Feb), after work I went casually browsing for bargains in TK Maxx, which I do about once a month. At the time I was also distracted with organising an event via my phone. I found some pants I liked the look of so picked them up and off the hangers before making my way over to the shoes.

Upon looking through and seeing something I liked, I absent mindedly put the pants in my bag to have my hands free to investigate (which is something I've started doing since the introduction of bag charges in Wales. I then exit via the till, and so negating the need for a bag).

On this occasion though, I completely forgot to pay for the items and walked out, whilst still fiddling about on my phone.

 

A security guard followed me out, got my attention and promptly 'arrested' me for shop lifting. My response was utter shock and my first re-action was to get my wallet and the pants out and wander over to the till to pay. The guard said 'It's too late for that love' and escorted me to the rear of the shop whilst in constant communication with other guards (saying he didn't require further assistance) via his wallkie talkie, which was very loud and totally embarrassing in front of the other shoppers.

 

He then sat me down in a back room, accompanied by I'm assuming one of the girls from the till, and asked if I stole those items.

I explained that it was an accident and I'd forgotten to pay (which sounded totally stupid as soon as the words came out of my mouth), to which he said 'you need to admit that you've stolen those items or I have to phone the police'.

At this point I completely panicked as I've never been in this situation before and my mind flashed to being made redundant for the third time in two years (last one in, first one out policy both times before - the burden of the freshly employed graduates of today), to which I replied 'I guess I have no choice but to admit to this then'.

He then asked to see photo ID, which I showed him (driving licence) and asked for my address, telephone number, national security number. I wrote down my address as best I could (I was shaking like a leaf).

He then said he didn't believe my story, which I found so belittling; as I'd been watched via CCTV removing pants from hangers and stuffing them into my bag, acting shifty and walking out.

He passed me a banning form which I was to sign, and told me to expect an unknown figure regarding civil recovery...'probably twice the value of the pants' (£40) and said 'you'd better not try and come back in as I work in all the shops within the south Wales region and you will be caught and arrested'

I had the presence of mind to ask what I was to do regarding items I already owned, which needed refunding; to which he looked at his colleague and didn't know what to say.

He eventually passed me the stores number in order for me to arrange a time to come by when I'd be allowed to enter the shop under supervision. I did not have the presence of mind to ask to see aforementioned CCTV footage.

Before signing this form, I tried to explain again that this was an accident due to me being distracted with the phone and whilst shopping I'd quite often put items in my bag before taking them out at the till and paying.

He agreed that he did see me utilising the phone like I'd said, but at this point; the till girl piped up with 'so you pinch things quite often then?'. Responding to her contempt, I just replied with 'well, when you put it like that, I guess I do'. I'd already realised it was pointless telling the truth to these people, they had already made up their minds. I was still in blind panic and just wanted to get out.

 

Upon further pondering once I had calmed down and had discussed it with close friends, I thought it would be wise to ask to speak to the store manager to explain the situation; as by now I felt terrible for what happened (ultimately, I was totally in the wrong for being stupid and walking out of the shop, therefore stealing), embarrassed that I was banned from all TK Maxx and scared of the prospect of an unknown figured fine. I also thought that if I could speak to them, they would see it was a genuine mistake and accident.

 

I rang on the Friday (22nd) to arrange a time to come in, for my refund and to speak to them. She (Miss X) couldn't tell me when she was working until the Monday. When I rang her again on the Monday (25th), it was agreed that I'd be able to come in and speak with her.

 

I took a friend in with me as so far I've found this to be a horrific ordeal.

 

I explained the situation to Miss X, apologised for my stupid mistake and asked if I could have my ban removed and fine revoked. She appeared to believe me, but said it was outside of her jurisdictional. She spoke to her area manager - who happened to be upstairs, who gave me the number of Miss Y and I was to ring her to see if there was anything she could do.

 

Wednesday (27th) I rang Miss Y, found she didn't answer in the office, rang the number back and was then put through to her mobile. Upon speaking with her, I found she wasn't in work, and so i've arranged to ring her again tomorrow (Friday 01st) after 10am to discuss things further.

 

Upon arriving home this evening (28th), my doorstep has been darkened by a lovely letter (dated the 25th) from RLP, saying I've won a prize, but to claim it I need to pay £147.50...So, after reading a good few other threads on here with similar tales of woe, that seems to be a familiar figure.

 

My current plan is to see what Miss Y says to me tomorrow, if there's a magic wand she can wave; or any way I can take this further and get some sort of written letter from TK Maxx absolving my sins, that I can bat back to RLP and close the case.

 

My question to you... is this a futile gesture? Am I just wasting my time? In reality, I am in a position to pay this sh1tty ' fine' and have it out of my hair; it would just mean that I struggle for a few months for my idiocy. A price I'm willing to pay for my sanity and lack of stress.

 

Anyhoo, your wise words of wisdom are eagerly awaited.

Edited by ims21
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My honest opinion?

 

 

IGNORE IGNORE IGNORE

 

Don't correspond with RLP, don't be tempted to correspond.

 

If you absolutely MUST talk to them, send them a one line letter that simply states:

 

Dear idiots,

 

Any liability to you or any associated companies is denied.

 

No further correspondance will be entered into.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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You won't get anywhere with the store. You need to speak to head office, customer services - 01923 473000

 

There is a specific lady, Rose, who deals with loss prevention issues.

 

The store itself, including the store manager, has no powers to resind your ban. All loss prevention staff are based out of head office, and it is them who make the decisions.

 

The cctv will of been retained, and burnt off to disc. All cctv showing 'arrests' and incidents is retained for 6 years. You have the right to have a copy - contact customer services and ask for a data protection 'subject access request'.

 

The lady at head office has the power to resind the ban - she will look at the arrest paperwork, view the cctv, and make a decision based on that. The stores are fitted with microphones in the holding room (the little room you were taken to at the back), as well as cctv, so everything said by both parties will be on video and audio.

 

You dont have to admit guilt if you weren't - you have your right in law to have your say in court, and be found innocent or guilty by a court of law. It is however a bit late now. I am not sure how head office will view you 'admitting' to what happened, when deciding to remove any ban / rlp action.

 

The security person sees a lot of people in a week who take items. Even I used to get a bit polarised with people who said 'innocent', when they meant 'had a lapse in judgement, silly thing to do, sorry'.

 

 

Let us all know how it goes.

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Thank you for all responses to date, I'm very grateful for any and all advice given.

 

I have spoken to Rose last Friday, she was the second lady i afore mentioned in my last post.

 

On Friday when i got through on the phone, I explained that this was an accident and I'd like my ban removed and fine revoked if possible. I think she took down my basic details, but didn't ask for any more detail, so I offered to send her an email explaining from my point of view. She said they'd be reviewing the case at the start of this week. I asked what i was to do in regards to the letter I'd received from RLP. she basically said don't ignore it, to give them a call/ email them explaining that i was in communication with her (which is something I've put off in view of the 'IGNORE' advice)

 

I've rung again today, but not spoken to her. I have however left a voice mail asking for an update on the situation.

 

In regards to the CCTV, I suppose it would show me wandering around browsing through clothes, selecting pants off the rack, wandering over to the shoes, somewhere along the lines putting the underwear into my bag, fiddling about on my phone whilst also walking out, then being escorted back in, then taking my wallet out to pay.

 

There isn't anything else I've omitted or falsified in my email to her, which would have been recorded in the back room so I'm not too concerned on that front.

 

I think my next move is to pluck up the courage to email/ ring RLP and explain that I am in communication with Rose into getting this ban and fine expunged.

I'm not expecting a welcoming reception from them, so I need to know what to say when I speak to them. In reality, i will not be able to pay this charge in one whack anyway and certainly not before pay day, but I have no idea how flexible they will be. I've seen that they even charge you for making any type of card payment!

 

in regards to seeking more advice, i managed to speak to a local citizens advise lady today, who brought to my attention the case of 'a retailer v Ms B + Ms K oxford county court - 9 may 2012', in which the amount stolen was so small, the court saw fit to throw out the case. Her advise was to offer a reduced payment of twice the value of the underware (so in my case £30). How do you guys think this will go down?

 

Just to pre-empt any more messages from you guys telling me to just ignore the letters from rlp...I really can't be dealing with the stress of worrying about it to be honest (which, unfortunately, I do).

I'm the one getting threatening letters, no one else. It's my credit history at steak, no one else. I've made myself sick thinking about financial consequences i don't even understand when really, i should be looking forward to a hard earned snowboarding holiday i'm going on next week.

Don't get me wrong, I have considered re-sealing the letter and sticking it back 'return to sender', but i just haven't got it in me. If I have to line the pockets of some unscrupulous thieving lawyers to get my piece of mind that the hounds will be reigned in...then so be it.

 

Unfortunately for TK Maxx, if i end up permanently banned and £150 out of pocket, they would be sacrificing my custom (probably worth hundreds a year), as well as various friends of mine who are horrified with my story..who as a result won't be shopping there either. 'bad news travels twice as fast'

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You dont have to communicate with RLP at all. It is Tx maxx's problem not yours. RLP are just idiots on the sidelines. They have no legal rights nor ability to do anything. If you call or email them, they will flag you as a gullible "debtor" and turn up the harassment. Trust me. We've seen it happen time and time again. Thats why we say Ignore.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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You are the 2nd person who has posted on the forums where they have visited TKMaxx, been accused of shoplifting then wanted the ban removed !!

 

You have been given advice, what you choose to do with it is up to you. IMHO, I would be too embarrassed to return to a store where even if innocent, I had been accused of stealing !1

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cant do bugger all to your CRA file either

 

there is no 'debt'

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Well, taking what you say at face value, their investigation will be basically looking at the footage then !.

 

They will be looking to see if it was a genuine mistake - or any elements of dishonesty - removing the price tickets, removing the items of the hanger and discarding the hangers, looking around at other customers and staff, or up at the cameras, damaging or removing security tags, pulling at the tags in an attempt to remove them.

 

If as you say, its a genuine 'didn't mean to' moment, and there's no 'alert signals' (as I've put above), then I'm sure they will make the right decision.

 

 

Good luck.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi there!

 

Something similar happened with me and my mother a couple years back,

they harassed and harassed us and you know what happened in the end? Nothing!

 

They threatened us with court etc yada yada yada wanted us to pay a £247-ish fine,

eventually lowering it to £40,

and based on principle and their absurd behaviour we decided to burned their letters and ignore them.

 

It wasn't in the Cardiff store, was it? Where yours happened? Sorry if you mentioned where it was and I missed the detail! :p

 

What happened with you was a genuine mistake and RLP have no legal standing whatsoever,

and even though we haven't focused much on this area of the law,

as a Law student I know (albeit partially) what I'm taking about.

 

Good luck with everything and don't lose sleep over it!

 

Don't pay the fine, don't lose sleep over it,

don't let it stress you out,

I understand how stressful it can be but you just have to tell yourself that you didn't do anything wrong. AT ALL.

 

They didn't lose their goods at all.

 

If anything THEY owe YOU compensation for false imprisonment.

 

What they did was illegal. As citizens they can only 'arrest' you for an indictable offence.

 

No offence whatsoever was committed, you didn't even leave the store.

 

What they did was false imprisonment.

 

They pressurised you into signing those forms.

 

It's a false confession.

 

Anyway, just want to make sure your mind is at ease! You're gonna be fine. Don't roll over and don't worry about it. Their whole system is based on forced confessions from innocent victims and people being pressurized into giving over money when there is no legal obligation to do so. So don't you worry! :)

 

EDIT: Sorry if this post is huge with loads of spaces, when I posted it it wasn't but if a mod has made it bigger then fair enough. :)

Edited by RyanEllis
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