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work programme after 2 years


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I am only 3 weeks in to INGEUS and already starting to lose my rag with them. If I can find a way to earn £70p/w even if it is cleaning toilets I will get myself off off this 'programme' before it makes me ill. Let's not beat about the bush, they do not care one iota about any of us, they are robots and behind the friendly attitude I get when I go there I see past it and see resentment and them thinking another loser to see.

 

As ive said many times before, all ingeus care about is their bonus at the end of the month. :mad2:

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To Emma078 about her post above:

When they issued you with a jobseeker's direction to provide evidence about your job search, I think it means print outs and screen shots of your fortnightly job applications. As for "not doing enough to find work": they are tricky ****s because in your Jobseeker's Agreement it says apply for at least 5 jobs a week and you think you have done enough if you apply for 10 a week. Then they still claim you haven't done enough.

 

If it says you've got to apply for 5 a week and you do 10 i think you've done more than enough. mine says i have to do 6 a fortnight, but i always managed 1 a day everyday.

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Always give them more than they ask for - if nothing else it lessens the chance of them picking on you if they see you've done way over what they asked. Hard to raise a sanction doubt in that case.

 

When it suits them, they'll say your JS Agreement is 'only a guide', even though it's actually the core document of your claim to benefits and so should be as binding as a contract. Other times they'll stick to the JS Agreement very precisely - again, only when it suits them.

 

I used to get this at work a lot; whenever I quoted the rules they were just 'guidelines and open to interpretation' but if the boss quoted them they were suddenly 'hard fact'. Old trick.

 

Don't give them the chance to find any fault. Click on a few more applications and play safe.

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You can not "just come off the Work Programme" - You have been mandated to attend for two years from the date of your initial contact with Seetec. There are limited ways to exit the programme early:

 

 

  • Get a job (Seetec then claim an outcome payment for your efforts).
  • Sign off and live on savings, goodwill, or charity (Seetec will still try to claim an outcome payment).
  • Enter full time education - Great if you can secure funding and have the means to live for the duration.
  • Retire and claim state pension - Not many have reached that stage of life.
  • Die - Not really a viable option as there is no return if you don't like it (Seetec will still try to claim their outcome payments).

 

Complaining to the DWP and/or the WP provider will achieve nothing. The complaint will be dismissed as a disgruntled claimant failing to "engage" with the provider. You'd be better off contacting you MP and challenge him/her as to whether the Work Programme is delivering value for money and achieving the targets that the government expects. Going to the press is always another option, but few reporters are interested (Shiv Malik & Amelia Gentleman, both from the Guardian, have an interest in WP failures).

 

 

what about if you go onto ESA like my friend, will he still have to attend the WP (ingeus)? he received another appointment from them for next tuesday, the only difference is this one is missing the part about it been mandatory, does that mean it is still mandatory though? :/

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what about if you go onto ESA like my friend, will he still have to attend the WP (ingeus)? he received another appointment from them for next tuesday, the only difference is this one is missing the part about it been mandatory, does that mean it is still mandatory though? :/

 

Has he made his ESA claim yet?

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yes he posted the forms today.

 

He will probably still have to attend WP appointments, but it will be on a different basis from the way it was when he was on JSA. ESA claimants can't be mandated to apply for jobs or participate in "work experience" or other compulsory workfare schemes.

 

It might smooth things over if your friend attends the appointment next Tuesday, but an appointment is only mandatory if specific wording is used in the letter, and the letter must be sent by post or handed to him - email, texts, phone calls and so on cannot be used to mandate attendance.

 

WP providers are not very good at dealing with people who switch from JSA to ESA. They appear not to know what the rules are.

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He will probably still have to attend WP appointments, but it will be on a different basis from the way it was when he was on JSA. ESA claimants can't be mandated to apply for jobs or participate in "work experience" or other compulsory workfare schemes.

 

It might smooth things over if your friend attends the appointment next Tuesday, but an appointment is only mandatory if specific wording is used in the letter, and the letter must be sent by post or handed to him - email, texts, phone calls and so on cannot be used to mandate attendance.

 

WP providers are not very good at dealing with people who switch from JSA to ESA. They appear not to know what the rules are.

 

this letter was missing the part about it been mandatory and ive told him he should go to explain the situation but in his current state i don't know if he'll go or not, his doctor has given him some tablets to start with to see if they help. how long will it take before he hears back from the jobcentre about his ESA claim?

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this letter was missing the part about it been mandatory and ive told him he should go to explain the situation but in his current state i don't know if he'll go or not, his doctor has given him some tablets to start with to see if they help. how long will it take before he hears back from the jobcentre about his ESA claim?

 

It could take two or three weeks to hear about his ESA claim. If he doesn't go to a WP appointment then he should at least document the date and time and his reasons for not going, for his own reference.

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I would go along and show them the evidence that he is on ESA, I presume he hasn't had an assessment yet so he won't be assigned to a work related adviser.

 

Let them know politely and firmly that due to medical condition you are NOT engaging with them and will need your time for recovery, and that the stresses they place upon you are unacceptable.

 

Put that in writing and copy in your GP, local MP and the top person at the centre you attend. I know somebody who did this and still got letters asking them to attend twice a week, despite having three hospital appointments each week - their local MP managed to get the centre to stop sending the letters out - apparently they have no control over the letters as they are not sent out locally (some of mine came from an office in Somerset, and I am in south-west London).

 

This whole system has bitten the government on its collective bottom as they did not concentrate on the people who really need help and assumed everyone was a lazy scrounger.

 

I've got work until the end of this month, and hopefully up until June, plus I have some self-employed work coming through regularly now so I will go self employed when my contract ends - that is until I get another job. I am doing completely different office work to what the Provider wanted me to do, and in fact removed all the skills I am using out of my CV!

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what about if you go onto ESA like my friend, will he still have to attend the WP (ingeus)? he received another appointment from them for next tuesday, the only difference is this one is missing the part about it been mandatory, does that mean it is still mandatory though? :/

 

Well..... If the letter was sent out after the claim for JSA was closed and before the ESA paperwork was submitted, making the appointment mandatory is pretty pointless - Ingeus should be aware that there is (at the time of issuing the letter) nothing they could do to ensure compliance. It could be a fishing trip to find out if they could claim an outcome payment for "helping" your friend off JSA.

 

As the letter is purely an invite without any element of mandation, it is up to him if he wishes to attend - If he elects to stay at home, I'd suggest sending a short note of rejection, something along the lines of:

As my JSA claim ceased on , I am under no obligation to attend your premises on . As I am otherwise occupied on the day in question, I will not be attending.

No need to mention switching to ESA at this stage.

 

WP providers are not very good at dealing with people who switch from JSA to ESA. They appear not to know what the rules are.

 

WP providers are not very good at dealing with any claimant - They seem to make up their own rules as they go along and ignore official DWP issued guidance as a matter of routine. Two recent examples spring to mind: Bogus "Job Seeker's Direction" from Working Links, benefit doubt raised for not providing photo ID (yet it wasn't requested in any mandation letter).

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I would go along and show them the evidence that he is on ESA, I presume he hasn't had an assessment yet so he won't be assigned to a work related adviser.

 

Let them know politely and firmly that due to medical condition you are NOT engaging with them and will need your time for recovery, and that the stresses they place upon you are unacceptable.

 

Put that in writing and copy in your GP, local MP and the top person at the centre you attend. I know somebody who did this and still got letters asking them to attend twice a week, despite having three hospital appointments each week - their local MP managed to get the centre to stop sending the letters out - apparently they have no control over the letters as they are not sent out locally (some of mine came from an office in Somerset, and I am in south-west London).

 

This whole system has bitten the government on its collective bottom as they did not concentrate on the people who really need help and assumed everyone was a lazy scrounger.

 

I've got work until the end of this month, and hopefully up until June, plus I have some self-employed work coming through regularly now so I will go self employed when my contract ends - that is until I get another job. I am doing completely different office work to what the Provider wanted me to do, and in fact removed all the skills I am using out of my CV!

 

he hasn't had an assessment yet and from what ive heard you have to wait 13 weeks for one but i don't know if heard right? i'll tell him but he gets so nervous about going to ingeus he often just goes along with what they are saying.

 

the whole system is an absolute joke, the sick disabled and unemployed get treated worse than criminals imo and it seems to be all about how many sanctions can be imposed each month to keep figures down :(

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Well..... If the letter was sent out after the claim for JSA was closed and before the ESA paperwork was submitted, making the appointment mandatory is pretty pointless - Ingeus should be aware that there is (at the time of issuing the letter) nothing they could do to ensure compliance. It could be a fishing trip to find out if they could claim an outcome payment for "helping" your friend off JSA.

 

As the letter is purely an invite without any element of mandation, it is up to him if he wishes to attend - If he elects to stay at home, I'd suggest sending a short note of rejection, something along the lines of:

No need to mention switching to ESA at this stage.

 

 

 

WP providers are not very good at dealing with any claimant - They seem to make up their own rules as they go along and ignore official DWP issued guidance as a matter of routine. Two recent examples spring to mind: Bogus "Job Seeker's Direction" from Working Links, benefit doubt raised for not providing photo ID (yet it wasn't requested in any mandation letter).

 

i'll let him know but won't ingeus still try to raise a sanction doubt? :/

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does my new claim mean i go back to the start as a new customer or not?

 

As far as i know, you have to be signed off JSA 12 weeks, before you are classed as a new customer so to speak. or this is what i was told....

 

We'd all be signing on the sick for afew weeks, if it mean't when we went back, we'd of got rid of all the WP and Post WP rubbish. :lol:

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i'll let him know but won't ingeus still try to raise a sanction doubt? :/

 

Eh, they might send off a referral, yes. There's not much anyone can do about that, and it doesn't mean a sanction is automatic.

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As far as i know, you have to be signed off JSA 12 weeks, before you are classed as a new customer so to speak. or this is what i was told....

 

We'd all be signing on the sick for afew weeks, if it mean't when we went back, we'd of got rid of all the WP and Post WP rubbish. :lol:

 

In general, this is true - a new claim for JSA made within 12 (or is it 13?) weeks is called a "linking claim" and is, in effect, treated as an extension of the previous claim.

 

However, once a Work Programme referral has been made, it is effective for two years. So anyone who's been sent on the WP and reclaims within that time will find themselves back at Ingeus or wherever.

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right here,s one for a pc boffin out there. ive been trying for a week now to login to mu uj account and all im getting is a message application error so can anyone help and tell me why this is happening and how to put it right (please )

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I'm no pc tech myself - hope someone can help you. In the meantime, take a screen shot of the 'error' message and keep it. Might come in handy to cover yourself if you ever forget to apply for jobs on there. The advisers are all aware of the unreliability of the site anyway.

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right here,s one for a pc boffin out there. ive been trying for a week now to login to mu uj account and all im getting is a message application error so can anyone help and tell me why this is happening and how to put it right (please )

The error could be due to several factors.... more than likely a conflict is creating the error. Depending on your computer system, I suggest that you visit the Control Panels, and perform a Systems Update. Then download and install other Browsers (such as Firefox, Chrome, Safari), and then try to access your Universal Job Match account.

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The error could be due to several factors.... more than likely a conflict is creating the error. Depending on your computer system, I suggest that you visit the Control Panels, and perform a Systems Update. Then download and install other Browsers (such as Firefox, Chrome, Safari), and then try to access your Universal Job Match account.
many thanks for that i will try and do that now :wink:
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I've been trying for a week now to login to mu uj account and all im getting is a message application error so can anyone help and tell me why this is happening and how to put it right (please )

 

Anything like the attached screen shot ?

 

If it is, then you probably have your browser set to reject cookies from the UJM web site - How you enable your browser to accept cookies is dependent on which one you are using (i.e. Firefox, Internet Explorer, Google Chrome).

 

If I were you, I'd count it as a blessing and print out screen shots each day to attach to your job search diary - When challenged over the use of UJM, offer the screen shots up and say "this is the error I am getting - How do you suggest I get round it on my computer ?"

Put the onus on the JCP advisor to provide the answer :wink:

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

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No... you can't eat my brain just yet. I need it a little while longer.

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Anything like the attached screen shot ?

 

If it is, then you probably have your browser set to reject cookies from the UJM web site - How you enable your browser to accept cookies is dependent on which one you are using (i.e. Firefox, Internet Explorer, Google Chrome).

 

If I were you, I'd count it as a blessing and print out screen shots each day to attach to your job search diary - When challenged over the use of UJM, offer the screen shots up and say "this is the error I am getting - How do you suggest I get round it on my computer ?"

Put the onus on the JCP advisor to provide the answer :wink:

thats exactly what im getting everytime. i use internet explorer so what am i doing wrongg ? any help wouyld be apreciated very much. im lucky at the mo as been on esa for 3 months so dont have to go to the jokecentre or answer to them and their ways :lol:

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thats exactly what im getting everytime. i use internet explorer so what am i doing wrongg ?

 

I don't use MS Windows (unless someone pays me to, and it has to be good money), so I'd suggest having a look at: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows7/how-to-manage-cookies-in-internet-explorer-9

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

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No... you can't eat my brain just yet. I need it a little while longer.

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I don't use MS Windows (unless someone pays me to, and it has to be good money), so I'd suggest having a look at: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows7/how-to-manage-cookies-in-internet-explorer-9
hi mr p and many thanks for your help. tried allowing cookies and still got same stupid error message. contacted dwp and they were as much help as a chocky teapot :lol:
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