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thanks for the reply im 28 i have never claimed DLA before and im at post work program support

 

1) Doctor: have a word with him and explain the position. I am not qualified or think it is my job to advise on this. If want to claim ESA you will need a fitness note (or sickness note). It will specifiy a period of time, say 3 months. The GP can add comments like restrictions in the type of work you can do. It would be worth going to the Doctor and try and get his advice anyway. Sometimes they may feel that suitability for work is outside their remit.

I went to my doctor for purpose to be cured, but it will take time for me. I asked for a prognosis. It was not advantageous for me to claim ESA so it was different. I am much older.

2) If you want to claim ESA you have to ring up the DWP will send you a form to complete, or the large form can be completed online.

You will have to sign off JSA and it is important to do this because the claim for ESA will be delayed.

3) Then you receive the assessment rate of ESA until you have to attend an ATOS asessment which may take 13 weeks or more. ATOS will almost certainly examine you not by a Doctor but another health professional. Most probably they will give you nil points and pronounce you fit for work. Then you can appeal. At this stage, if not now, you may need more expert advice.

 

So it is a rather circular process. So I would not be very keen to do it, unless you really are quite ill. Doctors seem to know all about this and may not sign a sickness certificate. The DWP may write to your GP for a medical opinion, tests etc. I liked this to make sure I was getting adequate medical treatment on the NHS.

 

There is an alternative after going to your Doctor. You could ask the Job Centre if you can see the Disability Advisor. This may not be possible because they are very busy people.

 

There is one great advantage for claiming ESA and that is the opportunity to do permitted part time work and get paid up to £100 a week in addition to your benefit. This last lasts for one year and is meant to ease you into full time work with people with reduced capacity medical conditions. If you want to take that route ask about it, saying for medical reasons you do not think you are capable of doing full time work straight away. It will be just as competitive trying to get those jobs so you have to make it clear about it.

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PS: Don't forget the Job Centre people are meant to help you find work and not just dole out the Government spare change.

 

So there are people to help you. Like Careers Advice (search online), cheap computers (£100 desktop), computer training courses to give you skills, probably other training as well. I wish I was young now as there did not seem to be the opportunties when I was younger.

 

Reslience is a key word. The courses should give you the support to enable you to gain the resilience to get a job of there any suitable ones around. The theory is that it should help with asthma and depression. It really depends how good these people are at doing their job. The Work Programme advisors are just recruitment specialists and are a bit limited in their abilities. They are not supportive and maybe recruitment in the dog eat dog world they shouldn't be. Because the work place is sometimes not like that.

 

The WP does help 10% find jobs.

 

Good luck. You do not really want to be too ill to work. I know from past experience.

 

PS: get a second opinion from from one of the administrators or somebody experienced. I have not worked for any advisory agency and my experience is as a claimant and I do not know what happens at the DWP end.

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I got my GP to sign me off sick, and then phoned up and let them know that I was now on ESA.

 

Phone your local jobcentre once you get signed off and make an appointment to get the change put through, they will need your Fit Note and they can send it to the relevant department electronically for you. Make sure you sign the sick note and then take a photocopy, you also then need to contact the council to let them know of the change so they can reassess any housing benefit or council tax reduction.

 

It took about a week for the notification to come through to me so I would advise signing off immediately after you get a JSA payment.

 

On a side note, I had an email from LinkedIn and my old adviser (who I haven't seen in over a year) was looking at my CV - I hadn't updated it in ages! It isn't the CV I did with him either as I re-wrote it once I realised I could still use a program I hadn't used in 7 years, so I now have a good income stream. I'm hoping the job I am in will become permanent, the people are lovely and the office is really close to the railway station, and there are plenty of places to go for lunch.

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I went to the job centre on the 22nd for my interview after being given a jobseeker's direction to allow them to see my universal jobmatch account. The interview was not with my advisor because she wasn't in that day and was booked with someone else. The person I was booked into see put my details into the computer, read it and then gave my book to someone else, who then put my details in the computer and called me over. She asked me if I had given them permission and I replied no, which she replied 'why not' while doing an exaggerated gasp. I told her it was up to me if I wanted to give them permission and their not allowed to issue a jobseeker's direction, Which she replied well I don't know about that, I never issued it, it was your advisor. She asked for my jobsearch which I shown her written down on paper like I always do, to which I was told I need to write down everything in the booklet they give to show I'm doing 35 hours jobsearch a week. What sites I go on, what day, what time and for how long. what jobs I've gone for, how I applied, who I spoke to, etc.... Another appointment was made for 2 weeks to see who I supposed to of seen today because my advisor was fully booked

 

The next interview I had, the same thing happened again with them logging on the computer reading it then giving my book to someone else. In the end it was my advisor who saw me (I thought she was supposed to be fully booked up) she asked for my jobsearch which I shown her the paper with everything written down and she said I though you was told to write it in the booklet. She said she wants evidence next time of the jobs I've applied for (I thought that's what I've been doing and she's never said anything before in the 6 -7 months I've been seeing her) and they are going to ring up the jobs I've applied for. I have been given a jobseeker's direction for this now. It says: I will provide evidence of the jobs I apply for in order for my advisor to support me with my applications, and follow up to get some feedback on jobs I have applied for. I will bring this evidence to my appointment on.... (Which is with the same person who's supposed to have seen me twice now, but has passed me to other people after putting my details into the computer?)

 

I have also been told to go on a 3 week employability skills course which I was given a letter to go for a interview with them first (Which I had to sign for) Its got the date but they have missed out the time and my advisor never signed it, its just been left blank

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To ask for evidence of job applications is not unusual - Typically, a conformation email or letter is accepted (or the rejection if you get one)... If they continue to give you grief over not allowing DWP access and refuse to accept the guidance given in the UJM Toolkit manual, I'll wade through the Decision Maker's manuals and provide you with the chapter & verse.

 

As for not stating a time on this latest "course", you need to query it as soon as possible, preferably in writing. If time is limited, then I'd suggest ringing the provider and asking them what time you are expected to attend.

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I can assure ANYONE on this site that if the Work Providers claim they are going to ring every job you have applied for to find out if you put your application in that the person stating this doesn't know what they are on about.

 

HR Departments will NOT give this information out, unless of course the Work Providers pay for it! They do not have the resources and anyway it is against Data Protection for them to reveal to anyone (even a recruiting manager) who has applied for a particular post and whether they have had the application.

 

This is why they are relying on UJM to do the work they thought they could do. I still see no real reason why people strongly object to it if it stops them hassling you - they CANNOT see everything you do on a computer it is on, they CANNOT stop you from looking via other websites and they CANNOT continue to chase you once you have employment.

 

I had an email from UJM saying I hadn't logged in for a year - well I've been working - so they are going to close my account. Which is quite a relief to me as it stops all the unsuitable jobs they have been sending.

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This is why they are relying on UJM to do the work they thought they could do. I still see no real reason why people strongly object to it if it stops them hassling you.

 

I can think of a very good reason for not allowing DWP access - You do a job search and find that "perfect job", do a little bit of research and find it is a [problem] so decide not to apply. DWP see that you didn't apply, issue a sanction. Alternatively, an adviser spams everyone in his/her folder when a fictitious vacancy appears, you recognise it for what it is, bingo. Another sanction.

 

The UJM has little to do with helping people to find work - It is primarily a system to monitor peoples activity at a reduced cost and generate benefit doubts for those that choose to use alternative methods of finding work.

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I can think of a very good reason for not allowing DWP access - You do a job search and find that "perfect job", do a little bit of research and find it is a [problem] so decide not to apply. DWP see that you didn't apply, issue a sanction. Alternatively, an adviser spams everyone in his/her folder when a fictitious vacancy appears, you recognise it for what it is, bingo. Another sanction.

 

The UJM has little to do with helping people to find work - It is primarily a system to monitor peoples activity at a reduced cost and generate benefit doubts for those that choose to use alternative methods of finding work.

 

Write it down on your job log or apply for the job anyway.

 

I sign up with Recruitment Agencies and just cut and paste including reference numbers. Reference numbers are important if I want to track the application. It is easier. Does not mean I don't forget to record some. Just less likely to.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I went to sign on today after being given a job seekers direction to provide evidence of my job search (which I always do anyway). My appointment was for 1pm (with the person who supposed to have seen me 3 times now but always passes me to someone else) well surprise they didn't see me today either, I was told to come back at 2.30pm to see someone else. After waiting outside for the time to slowly pass I went back in. The person I saw said I'm sending your claim to a decision maker because you haven't done the direction that was given to you, which I replied that I have and shown them everything written out including the dates, job id, email addresses and was told it wasn't enough and why haven't I given them access to my universal jobmatch account (I'm so sick of being asked that) after going on I got annoyed and asked to see the manager. He was a idiot to and told me its up to him whether he pays me or not and I've not done enough to find work. He went on universal jobmatch and was looking at jobs up to 40 miles away saying look on this page alone there's 1,2,3 and started counting them, to which I had to say a few times your counting apprenticeships, ones in the heading saying 18 to 24 year olds only, and your not clicking them on to see if experience is needed. He just said I'm sending it to a decision maker and told the women to start the claim and left. After the women was messing on the computer I signed on, was given a appointment for 2 weeks times and then she told me I need to fill in the booklet everyday of what I'm doing, how long, etc... if I don't she'll send it of to a decision maker again. I shown her the freedom of information act on my phone where it says it up to us how we provide evidence and she just said well its something to show the citizens advice, not me

 

Can't believe their trying to sanction me again (well I can). My 13 week sanction comes to a end on the 26th of this month and all I'm getting now is hardship, which they are still taking nearly £15 out for a social fund repayment, so all I get is £70 a fortnight which I'm really struggling on. Don't know how I'll survive on this for another 6 months if/when the decision maker sanctions me again

 

Back to the jobcentre tomorrow (yippee) for a assessment interview for a 3 week employability course, so that should be fun

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1) Doctor: have a word with him and explain the position. I am not qualified or think it is my job to advise on this. If want to claim ESA you will need a fitness note (or sickness note). It will specifiy a period of time, say 3 months. The GP can add comments like restrictions in the type of work you can do. It would be worth going to the Doctor and try and get his advice anyway. Sometimes they may feel that suitability for work is outside their remit.

I went to my doctor for purpose to be cured, but it will take time for me. I asked for a prognosis. It was not advantageous for me to claim ESA so it was different. I am much older.

2) If you want to claim ESA you have to ring up the DWP will send you a form to complete, or the large form can be completed online.

You will have to sign off JSA and it is important to do this because the claim for ESA will be delayed.

3) Then you receive the assessment rate of ESA until you have to attend an ATOS asessment which may take 13 weeks or more. ATOS will almost certainly examine you not by a Doctor but another health professional. Most probably they will give you nil points and pronounce you fit for work. Then you can appeal. At this stage, if not now, you may need more expert advice.

 

So it is a rather circular process. So I would not be very keen to do it, unless you really are quite ill. Doctors seem to know all about this and may not sign a sickness certificate. The DWP may write to your GP for a medical opinion, tests etc. I liked this to make sure I was getting adequate medical treatment on the NHS.

 

There is an alternative after going to your Doctor. You could ask the Job Centre if you can see the Disability Advisor. This may not be possible because they are very busy people.

 

There is one great advantage for claiming ESA and that is the opportunity to do permitted part time work and get paid up to £100 a week in addition to your benefit. This last lasts for one year and is meant to ease you into full time work with people with reduced capacity medical conditions. If you want to take that route ask about it, saying for medical reasons you do not think you are capable of doing full time work straight away. It will be just as competitive trying to get those jobs so you have to make it clear about it.

i got my doctors note but it is only for 10days so do i just move frm jsa to Esa for 10 days then back to Esa? Any help much appreciated x

TJR JNR

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i got my doctors note but it is only for 10days so do i just move frm jsa to Esa for 10 days then back to Esa? Any help much appreciated x

you have to keep going back to your doctor when your sicknote runs out. depends what you are on esa for. ive been claiming esa now for over 3 months and still not been assesed so each time my sick note runs out i go back to doctor to get another. hope this helps.

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I went to sign on today after being given a job seekers direction to provide evidence of my job search (which I always do anyway). My appointment was for 1pm (with the person who supposed to have seen me 3 times now but always passes me to someone else) well surprise they didn't see me today either, I was told to come back at 2.30pm to see someone else. After waiting outside for the time to slowly pass I went back in. The person I saw said I'm sending your claim to a decision maker because you haven't done the direction that was given to you, which I replied that I have and shown them everything written out including the dates, job id, email addresses and was told it wasn't enough and why haven't I given them access to my universal jobmatch account (I'm so sick of being asked that) after going on I got annoyed and asked to see the manager. He was a idiot to and told me its up to him whether he pays me or not and I've not done enough to find work. He went on universal jobmatch and was looking at jobs up to 40 miles away saying look on this page alone there's 1,2,3 and started counting them, to which I had to say a few times your counting apprenticeships, ones in the heading saying 18 to 24 year olds only, and your not clicking them on to see if experience is needed. He just said I'm sending it to a decision maker and told the women to start the claim and left. After the women was messing on the computer I signed on, was given a appointment for 2 weeks times and then she told me I need to fill in the booklet everyday of what I'm doing, how long, etc... if I don't she'll send it of to a decision maker again. I shown her the freedom of information act on my phone where it says it up to us how we provide evidence and she just said well its something to show the citizens advice, not me

 

Can't believe their trying to sanction me again (well I can). My 13 week sanction comes to a end on the 26th of this month and all I'm getting now is hardship, which they are still taking nearly £15 out for a social fund repayment, so all I get is £70 a fortnight which I'm really struggling on. Don't know how I'll survive on this for another 6 months if/when the decision maker sanctions me again

 

Back to the jobcentre tomorrow (yippee) for a assessment interview for a 3 week employability course, so that should be fun

ive been on two 3 week employability courses. and got two city and guilds level 1 certificates.both the same,they will no doubt send me again for the same course.

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[...]asked to see the manager. He was a idiot to and told me its up to him whether he pays me or not and I've not done enough to find work.

 

Errmmm... nope. It is not a manager's decision as to whether you get paid JSA. Neither is it for him to judge that you have done enough to find work - In both cases, it is for a Decision Maker to review the evidence and make the decision.

 

If you have done everything that has been asked of you in respect to job search and evidence, then this "manager" is just being an a***. Rise above it and resist the temptation to react out of anger or frustration.

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you have to keep going back to your doctor when your sicknote runs out. depends what you are on esa for. ive been claiming esa now for over 3 months and still not been assesed so each time my sick note runs out i go back to doctor to get another. hope this helps.
so how will they check if i was fit for work or not when mine only lasts 10days? By the time they want to asses me i be back on jsa hopefully

TJR JNR

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so how will they check if i was fit for work or not when mine only lasts 10days? By the time they want to asses me i be back on jsa hopefully

 

Prior to your assessment every day of your claim needs to be covered by a doctor's note. Well, there are a few technicalities, but as a general rule, you should seek a cert for every day.

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Emma, if an advisor has issued a jobseekers direction to make you give access to your UJ then this is totally wrong and should be reported at the highest level both to the DWP and especially the PCS Union, who have in the past issued clear instructions to Jobcentre staff that they cannot make customers give them access to their UJ account. Ask your advisor for the direction in writing - I'll bet they won't do this because they know they're acting out of line.

 

I actually have a line at the top of my home-made Job Log which says 'Any attempt to coerce access to UJ account will be treated as harrassment and reported to DWP District & Regional managers, PCS Union and Data Protection organisation'. No advisor ever mentions it now :)

 

Also, the DWP are not allowed to seek feedback on any vacancies you applied for unless they found it for you - ie a 'matched' notified vacancy. Anything you find yourself they can only seek feedback if they have your express permission. I would imagine this would also apply to the Work Program bods too. If they ask you to get feedback then that's fair enough, but they themselves can't just ring up employers as they wish as this could, in some cases like Local Government vacancies, cause your application to be rejected.

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Orders of action:

 

1) Go to see your Doctor. Get a fitness note. You doctor has the option to recommend working with conditions.

2) Have a word with the Job Centre staff and ask for a meeting with the Disablement Officer (optional)

3) Ring up DWP.

i got my doctors note and was awarded Esa for 3 weeks but it ends wednesday coz im better now as it was for bronchitis so i open a new Jsa claim again on thursday but does anybody know where i will start frm as during my old jsa claim which ended 2 weeks ago i was at post work program support stage -does my new claim mean i go back to the start as a new customer or not?

TJR JNR

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I have just started the work programme. My job centre advisor sent me to the Seetec provider.

 

I started on the 27th January where i completed the two week induction and i am currently on stage one. Stage one consists of four weeks going to the local centre on two days a week between 9-5 pm.

 

So far my time on the programme has been appalling. During the five weeks i've been on the programme, i've sat with my advisor only once and that was for less than 20 minutes. I sat with them while they sent off for four jobs matching my previous working experience.

 

I also have to sign a register four times! Once at 9am, 11am, 1pm and 3pm or five if you count the "health and safety register"

 

In the afternoon you go in to a training room where you have a "session" Last monday i had a session on "stepping stone jobs" a 40 minute session which wasn't even delivered properly, all he did was babble on for 40 minutes on how we might go for a job we might not like to fill the gap in a CV.

 

I'm seriously thinking of coming off this programme. They've told me my interview techniques and CV are fine and i'm spending the majority of the time sitting in a room doing something i could be doing at home with out like feeling like a school kid/prisoner.

 

Whom at the job centre do i complain to about this so called "work programme"?

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Who do you complain to at the jobcentre? I'm not sure you'll get much of a hearing I'm afraid. As long as you are on the WP, JCP washes it's hands of you with regards support (other than box ticking style job search checking, applying sanctions and signing).

 

 

Before going onto the WP, I had a right argument with a scruff bag of an adviser (wore the same clothes every week) about the nature of the providers delivering the WP. At the end of it, I advised him to read the evidence about such companies I had with me.

 

 

Perhaps complain to the providers head office and the Independent Case examiner. Also, as well as forums such as this, get yourself onto radio phone ins on the subject and contact any interested journalists. This is exactly what I have done and more besides.

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My local Seetec are also short staffed or so they keep telling us.

 

This morning another WP customer had a go at a Seetec member of staff running the launchpad session for single mums. Apparently a group of single mums doing a work related activity was too noisy for him! They weren't bothering me but this was the same man that was blairing out his dance music for the entire room to hear.

 

It's a complete joke and i'm tempted to sign off.

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I'm seriously thinking of coming off this programme.

 

Whom at the job centre do i complain to about this so called "work programme"?

 

You can not "just come off the Work Programme" - You have been mandated to attend for two years from the date of your initial contact with Seetec. There are limited ways to exit the programme early:

 

  • Get a job (Seetec then claim an outcome payment for your efforts).
  • Sign off and live on savings, goodwill, or charity (Seetec will still try to claim an outcome payment).
  • Enter full time education - Great if you can secure funding and have the means to live for the duration.
  • Retire and claim state pension - Not many have reached that stage of life.
  • Die - Not really a viable option as there is no return if you don't like it (Seetec will still try to claim their outcome payments).

Complaining to the DWP and/or the WP provider will achieve nothing. The complaint will be dismissed as a disgruntled claimant failing to "engage" with the provider. You'd be better off contacting you MP and challenge him/her as to whether the Work Programme is delivering value for money and achieving the targets that the government expects. Going to the press is always another option, but few reporters are interested (Shiv Malik & Amelia Gentleman, both from the Guardian, have an interest in WP failures).

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I was on jsa and was at the Post-work-programme-support stage but had to sign off onto Esa after my 3rd period of sickness in 12months even though it only lasted 3 weeks -when i go back to make a new claim for Jsa at end of next week does anybody know if i go back to post work programme support? Or will i be treated as a new claim an go right back to the start? Any help is much appreciated thanks x

TJR JNR

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To Emma078 about her post above:

When they issued you with a jobseeker's direction to provide evidence about your job search, I think it means print outs and screen shots of your fortnightly job applications. As for "not doing enough to find work": they are tricky ****s because in your Jobseeker's Agreement it says apply for at least 5 jobs a week and you think you have done enough if you apply for 10 a week. Then they still claim you haven't done enough.

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I am only 3 weeks in to INGEUS and already starting to lose my rag with them. If I can find a way to earn £70p/w even if it is cleaning toilets I will get myself off off this 'programme' before it makes me ill. Let's not beat about the bush, they do not care one iota about any of us, they are robots and behind the friendly attitude I get when I go there I see past it and see resentment and them thinking another loser to see.

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