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Basically it's saying that, because the DWP display notices informing customers of the use of CCTV this means that merely by walking into the building you are giving implied consent for them to record you. Naturally though, if we wanted to record them it's a whole different ball game.

 

Ah, but the DWP clearly states that this policy applies to film and video recording. It does not mention audio recordings or even imply that it is not allowed. So carry on recording conversations.

 

You could hand them a letter withdrawing consent, implied or otherwise, for CCTV to be used to record your activities whilst on the premises - Don't expect it to have any effect though...

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Luckily for me I've managed to find my 'unique selling point' which is getting me work, so I don't have to deal with the inane Mandatory schemes.

 

Again the Government seem to be missing the point - real jobs which pay enough to get people off benefits completely are really scarce.

 

These schemes are basically there (IMHO and in others I've spoken to) to offer 'sweetners' to graduates to get them 'fast tracked' into management roles.

 

Good story from a friend who got shoved onto one of these schemes - first morning they were asked 'how do you greet the manager?' Friend said 'Good morning ME.' as he has nearly always been a manager. He was told at lunchtime not to bother coming back as he was 'over qualified' for the roles they were learning about! He got them to put it in writing to him just in case he got a sanction.

 

These schemes were dreamed up because the 'popular press' was portraying the unemployed as lazy or working on the side... so round them up and give them 'employable' skills instead of them milking the system both ends (but of course the government don't do that - do they - MPs with second and third consultancy jobs).

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Hi,

Can not believe that they are mandating Ema to give access to her account just to extend her sanction with yet another sanction. It is just too nasty but they are trying it on.

 

I am getting ready to show them the print out of their own guidance, just the relevant sections, which say they can not mandate claimants to allow access to UJM account.

 

Today I saw a FOI reply [Aug 2013] which shows that the DWP is working on changing the current policy about their access to accounts and they uphold their right not to give info under a FOI request about the proposed changes because the policy is under discussion so it is not in the public interest to disclose it.

 

These days my new advisor refuses to sign my job search so what hope would I have asking her to sign a Jobseekers Direction she prints out for me. Will they back off if you show them the print out of the relevant points from the Universal Jobmatch Toolkit, Chapter 3, if you say you are going to speak to the manager and write to your MP to complain if they insist on issuing a Jobseekers Direction?

 

Someone up here says JCP managers really do not like having to explain themselves to MPs.

 

One thing to be careful about: Jobseekers Act 1995 states we have to follow directions provided by the Secretary of State [Jobseekers Direction] so really need up to date knowledge about policies whether they can instruct us to allow them access or not.

 

Remember that with Universal Credit the whole thing is going to be through the internet: the claim itself, number of advisers will be cut so we will have to provide evidence online? Very likely.

 

Hope the whole system crashes before they launch it nationwide. They written off £40 million because the IT system trial did not work: need new system for UC launch.

 

Click on the .jpg screenshots below for info / to print out for your advisor and hopefully avoid DMA referral upon denying access.

 

It does say that they can ask us to show print outs of our account so careful about that one..

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]48650[/ATTACH]

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I am getting ready to show them the print out of their own guidance, just the relevant sections, which say they can not mandate claimants to allow access to UJM account.

 

I'd also suggest printing out the section from the Decision Maker's guidance I linked to (and quoted) in post #997 - If the adviser knows beforehand that a DM will reject a doubt raised, it would just be a spiteful act on their part to issue a JSD to gain access to a UJM account.

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Ok, thank you.

Here is the ready made screen shot for everyone to print out if you want.

 

These Front Line Advisers act upon their management's direction when repeatedly pestering us to allow access to our account.

 

It was interesting to read the following fact on the Public and Commercial Services Union website someone up here posted a link to:

 

"Advisors, following what they believed to be a "reasonable management request" will not face disciplinary action as a result of their action."

 

It was about advisors setting up universal job match accounts for claimants. Now how daft is that? They will know the password if they set up the account.

 

Bottom line is: when we go to the JCP manager to complain about Jobseeker's Direction issued to allow access to DWP to our UJ account, it is the manager who instructed the advisers to do so, who else would have been??

 

Yet if we stand up for our rights and speak to the manager about it waiving the print out of the Decision Makers guidance relevant points: will they still have the guts to refer us to compliance doubt to DMA.

 

Of course the whole thing put into writing, evidence attached, posted to JCP manager, proof of posting retained, saying in letter you keep copy of this letter and proof of posting: even more efficient and even more likely to **** them off and find another way to sanction you if they wish.

 

Today saw it on telly in parliament they said "there is 30% less people receiving JSA than a year ago" [to show what the government achieved to reduce unemployment to win the elections in May]. I wanted to shout: it is because you sanctioned 30% of the claimants for next to nothing or unlawfully to doctor your figures.

 

It is the number of JSA claimants they should be stating, not the number of people receiving JSA. The two are totally different as most claimants will know. At least up here.

 

Yes, they are trying to drive you to work by making work much easier than avoiding these unfair sanctions. Yet even when you really want that job because sanction doubt and JSA suspended and there is no job or they say no in the interview: that's reality and instead of lining the pockets of private Work Programme contractors who do nothing for 2 years to help us find work, they should spend that money creating meaningful jobs, not Seetec adviser jobs.

 

Create school places, extra staff in the NHS to support all these immigrants who moved in. They ain't gonna go back, 1 million Eastern Europeans moved in within 10 years so there is a need for extra services: create those jobs, more midwifes needed for the Polish girls popping out babies, please.

 

We work and will work if there are jobs, unless the 3 generations who never worked UK under class. Cut their benefits if they never worked and do not punish uni graduates with sanctions for not attending JCP appointments about which they never received a letter. Because it was never sent.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]48652[/ATTACH]

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It does say that they can ask us to show print outs of our account so careful about that one..

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]48650[/ATTACH]

 

There's another FOI response from DWP Central Office dated 22 July last year that clearly states we don't have to provide screen prints - extrect below;

 

'In response to the question you have raised about requiring jobsearch evidence from Universal

Jobmatch. Advisers cannot mandate claimants to give them access to their Universal

Jobmatch account, nor can they force a claimant to print out screen prints of their UJ account.

The extracts below from Chapter 3 of the Universal Jobmatch Toolkit clearly explain the

parameters when assessing what a claimant has done to look for work within Universal

Jobmatch.'

 

The actual wording in the Universal Jobmatch Toolkit (Chapter 3, paragraph 87) says advisors can only suggest a customer provides screen prints. Naturally, the advisors will purposely interpret this as 'must' supply screen prints and if the customer doesn't know the guidance they'll no doubt accept this as gospel. I've pointed this out to a couple of advisors before and they've never pushed the matter.

 

I always insist on the advisor signing and dating my evidence sheets, plus I always ask them if the evidence was satisfactory so I have an audio recording of them confirming it.

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I know. You are right.

 

There days I stress too much about the WP / JCP wanting to sanction us on purpose. This blooming JSA is the life line for most of us and the prospects beyond are gloomy. Went to an interview and in the ad it says nanny / housekeeper. When I was there it was called au-pair which made it clear to me that they are not going to pay taxes and NI. Now I can not afford that because the government is bringing in contributory benefits, at least for EU migrants: depending how much you paid in [taxes], you may be eligible for benefits after a certain number of years in the UK, for a fixed amount of time.

 

So what's the point of working for slave wages, no NI and taxes paid. No clue how to be self-employed to pay my own taxes and NI: it seems scary, difficult and at least £200 for an accountant.

 

Anyone seen Benefits Street part 1 and 2? Hilarious, part 1 was better. Growing cannabis in the spare room "to pay the bedroom tax", Fungi working more than a city worker [big issue, sweeping]. Shocking that the young couple with the 2 children got benefits stopped and had to live on £30 child benefit.

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Ok, English is my second language, yet I interpret the word "may" as permission in the context.

 

You may ask the claimant to show you print outs of certain pages of his Universal Jobmatch account, provided he has access to printer or cash to print.

 

If not, you may ask him to show it to you on his smart phone. If no such phone, provide access to a JCP internet access device so that client is stuffed one way or another because the adviser has always got a computer in front of her face on the desk.

 

Please read the exact words of the policy below. To me "adviser may ask client to show print outs" means adviser has permission [from DWP] to ask client to show print outs.

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[...] provide access to a JCP internet access device so that client is stuffed one way or another because the adviser has always got a computer in front of her face on the desk.

 

To allow a client use of an adviser's computer would be a serious breach of DWP IT policy and could see the adviser being sacked for gross misconduct. The JCP "internet access device" is a sanitized terminal heavily restricted so that it can not access internal DWP systems.

 

In answer to your last point: Yes, the JCP adviser [has DWP permission] to ask to see printouts if the client has access to a printer. Note - The guidance says ask, not "demand".

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"Universal jobmatch and benefit conditionality

 

81, Universal Jobmatch will be a key performance enabler in terms of making sure benefit is only paid to claimants who are entitled to receive it"

 

In other words it is a sanctioning machine and the "performance enabling" refers to them being enabled to get the sanction targets they are given from high above.

 

Better watch some telly and chill rather than get heart attack over what might happen.

 

Or what may happen. In which case may is used to expressed possibility, not permission.

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OK. It also says that it is the client's choice how they provide their job search evidence.

So if I end up having to show my Uni Jobmatch job application activity history which has nothing listed on it, on an utterly sooper dooper secure IAD to my advisor, I can cover my back quoting the right point that it is my choice how I provide evidence hence it is on paper and nothing at all online in account.

I type slowly and only get one hour a day in the library from which I was banned in another borough for 3 months because getting stressed easily as people sit too close to me on the computer. Getting banned from a library is quite an achievement.

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OK. It also says that it is the client's choice how they provide their job search evidence.

So if I end up having to show my Uni Jobmatch job application activity history which has nothing listed on it, on an utterly sooper dooper secure IAD to my advisor, I can cover my back quoting the right point that it is my choice how I provide evidence hence it is on paper and nothing at all online in account.

I type slowly and only get one hour a day in the library from which I was banned in another borough for 3 months because getting stressed easily as people sit too close to me on the computer. Getting banned from a library is quite an achievement.

 

This is why I only ever apply for UJ vacancies which give you an alternative means of application, ie if the vacancy says something like 'To apply, visit our website at XXXX' or they give you a link to another agency, such as CV-Library.co.uk who will be handling the vacancy for them.

 

You note down the UJ vacancy number, apply via the external link - recording their vacancy number - and usually you'll get an acknowledgement email as hard proof you applied. The JC then has everything they need to confirm that you've used UJ, found a vacancy and applied for it...and all without having access to your UJ account.

 

Of course they'll moan on about you not storing everything on UJ, but you're using the site, finding vacancies and have proof of your application. If they tried to refer you for a sanction they wouldn't have a leg to stand on - and they know it.

 

Remember, the most they can ever do is just mandate you to register with UJ and create a public profile - plus the usual 'check UJ once a day' condition of nearly all JS agreements. At present, there's no hard requirement to store anything on there (though no doubt it will happen one day).

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Interesting fun and games signing on yesterday while still on the PWP...

 

Advisor mentioned providing screen prints from UJ as proof of job application, to which I replied 'Pointless, as I always apply externally so don't record any activity on there, plus in any event screen prints can only be suggested, not enforced'. 'There's new guidance which now says you HAVE to provide screen prints' she then said. 'Show me' said I. 'I would but I haven't got time as I'm signing people on' she replied. Hmm...

 

So I then showed her some real guidance (FOI response) saying screen prints couldn't be forced, and she backed down immediately - rather annoyed too, I noticed. She then asked for evidence of my normal 5 a week applications, which I offered to print out on the public computer but apparently there was a small crowd already waiting to use them. I suggested emailing them to her later in the day, which she said was acceptable - but she couldn't put through my payment until then. Never had that said to me before; she's obviously still annoyed I called her bluff about the fake guidance.

 

She gave me her DWP email address and when I attempted later to mail her the evidence, up came 'Mail Delivery Failure'. Her email address did not exist. A quick phone call to the JC and one of her colleagues gave me the correct address - quite a chunk had been left out of the address the advisor had given me.

 

Carelessness??.. or a deliberate attempt to stop me sending in the jobsearch evidence?? Had I not seen the initial 'mail failure' message I would have assumed my evidence had been sent...she would naturally not have received it, having given me the wrong address...and we all know what would have happened after that, don't we?

 

No way to prove it was deliberate, obviously - though I do have a lovely clear digital recording of her telling me about this 'new guidance' which doesn't appear anywhere. Useful ammunition for the future. I even emailed her asking her to kindly send me a copy of this guidance for my records - not surprisingly she hasn't :)

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She gave me her DWP email address and when I attempted later to mail her the evidence, up came 'Mail Delivery Failure'.

 

Carelessness??.. or a deliberate attempt to stop me sending in the jobsearch evidence??

 

 

 

Always get the adviser to write these things down - Get them to provide the rope....

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They wrote down their email address on a post-it note and gave it to me, so I have the evidence. They not only left out a digit after their name but also left out the '.gov' part of the ending, so no way would my mail have ever reached them. This advisor has been there for years so hard to believe they still don't know their own work email address. Obviously they'll claim 'I was overworked with clients signing on and it was a genuine error'.

 

Concerning the fictitious 'guidance', I've just now emailed the Regional Secretary of the Northern PCS - who is known for his strong stance on DWP wrongdoing - relating what the advisor said and asking for a copy. I anticipate his reply will start with 'would you give me the name of this advisor please' :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Does anybody know how to move from jsa to esa? I have asthma and it has become increasingly worse over the last 18mnths due to stress and other health problems and find it difficult even walking 100 yards without stopping to use my inhaler i also suffer with depression an my family an a friend feel if i spoke to sumbody i would likely be signed off but ive always been to proud to go an talk about it coz i dnt like the thought of people thinkin i would do anythin not to have a job an go to work so ive just let it go on an i wouldnt know how to start the ball rolling anyway who do i speak to first ? Jobcentre plus ? Ring Dwp? Or Go to My Doctor first ? Any Help Would be Much Appreciated thanks

TJR JNR

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GP first - No point in even trying for ESA without medical evidence.

Next stop, DWP and loads of forms to fill in.

 

Best of luck.

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Does anybody know how to move from jsa to esa? I have asthma and it has become increasingly worse over the last 18mnths due to stress and other health problems and find it difficult even walking 100 yards without stopping to use my inhaler i also suffer with depression an my family an a friend feel if i spoke to sumbody i would likely be signed off but ive always been to proud to go an talk about it coz i dnt like the thought of people thinkin i would do anythin not to have a job an go to work so ive just let it go on an i wouldnt know how to start the ball rolling anyway who do i speak to first ? Jobcentre plus ? Ring Dwp? Or Go to My Doctor first ? Any Help Would be Much Appreciated thanks

 

I had the same sort of problem, a physical intermittent ailment and I am in process of changing over and I can advise of the procedure and the snags. There are also advantages.

 

However, it is also possible for this to result in a large reduction in benefit, so I cannot reeocmmend this action for everyone.

 

The three pertinent questions to ask are

 

1) Do you receive the DLA premium in addition to JSA? (If so, at what rate?) This is IMPORTANT.

2) What is your age?

3) Are you on the Work Programme? Or do you visit the Job Centre? (or have you been on the Work Programme before?)

 

You can reply privately if you want.

 

You will have to have a word with your Doctor and he will have to send in medical certificates and this might be the first step regardless.

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Orders of action:

 

1) Go to see your Doctor. Get a fitness note. You doctor has the option to recommend working with conditions.

2) Have a word with the Job Centre staff and ask for a meeting with the Disablement Officer (optional)

3) Ring up DWP.

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