work programme after 2 years

[Chester6]

Yeah, hopefully it will. But it'll be too late for me. I'm living it now. My advisor seemed to take a perverse pleasure in my impotent anger. I'm sure she's not representative of all the hardworking folk on the frontline at JCP. But having now met over twenty in my years of signing, I fear she IS. How do they all sleep at night? What type of person enjoys wielding such small power over another? I'm sick to death of the whole bunch of bastards. No sympathy when they pick on some hardnut with MH issues and get their backs broken with one of those blue plastic chairs.

 

I've really had enough now.

 

"Advisor" and "support" are the wrong terms for what they do as they tell you and expect you to obey whilst they are petty and vindictive bullies, these seem to be the PWP ones

Not everyone is like that in the sanction centres as you get a few decent ones like a guy I saw who knew the ones upstairs are obsessed with UJM access, it's just a job to them and they don't care about who is hurt as a consequences of the targets or the attitudes they have

[boomboomboom]

Has he just finished his 2 year course? He should now be starting the Post Work Programme for 6 months, but maybe the DWP has done away with that - it was a waste of time anyway - and is now putting new leavers straight onto the Help To Work scheme.

 

no he finished his course 5-7months ago a will need to ask.

 

yeh i wonder what i will get told when i get an actual adviser in 2 weeks a got a letter to say i have an "post work programme" no mention of help to work on it but no doubt they will try bully you into taking there slave labour crap!

[jasta11]

Sorry to hear of your bad experiences Shendor; no doubt we'll all have to endure the same very soon.

 

Don't forget that you can ask for a change of adviser - and if they ask why then tell them. Your adviser may have had complaints already about her, if she goes on that way with everyone.

 

Ask her to put the bit about 'not paying expenses for daily signings' down in writing - she won't. Even with normal interviews I've found they would never mention expenses, though their guidance quite clearly tells them that they have to pay you. It was only the odd decent adviser who didn't wait for me to demand them.

 

I'm still looking for any sort of official guidance on Help To Work that's been put up by the DWP. Seems to already be in place in some JC's but not others.

[neword]

I was on the WP last year (finished around early October) and I got sent back to the JC. What I was not told is that I was off WP and could now get access to the start up schemes that you did not have access to whilst on WP. I was then sent to a mandatory scheme whereby I learnt how to make a CV, Update it, Interview techniques etc etc etc. The scheme ran for 3 weeks and I had to attend every day for 5 hours a day. I had some hopes for this but....

 

On the first day it started it soon became clear that the vast majority of people there were only there because it was mandatory and the atmosphere of "I'm bored, I'm only here because they sent me, this is a waste of time" soon showed it's head. This first day finished after just 3 hours had past.

2nd day was no better with very little being done and the person running it just seemed to want it over with. She got it over as fast as possible. time was 2.5 hours

By the end of the first week we had lost two people and time there was down to just 2 hours a day from the 5 the government were paying for.

 

In the 2nd week we actually got to use some computers to do our CV's on. They were not ones at the centre we were attending but ones in the local Salvation Army Centre about a mile from the place where the scheme was running. There was not enough machines for everyone and so half the people sat in the Sally Cafe area drinking and eating. They swapped after about an hour.

 

The vast majority of the people there did not have a clue as to how to use a computer and the person running the course was struggling. In the end I more or less took over as I know alot about computers and associated programs such as MSWorks etc I ended up doing 11 CV's that day.

 

Anyway by the end of the course 7 people had left it for one reason or another. The government had spent money to cover 75 hours of training and improvement to skills even though total time we were in attendance was only about 40. No one got a job and to me it was a total waste of time and public money.

 

Six months after I was referred back to the JC from the WP I told my advisor I wish I could have got onto the scheme that the government was running where you could start up a business whilst still receiving a proportion of the benefits you were currently getting. It was then that I found out that I was not still on the WP anymore and that I could now get access to this help. I had wasted 6 months and would not be in the position I am in now if they had told me this information when I was referred back to the JC from WP.

 

A lot of the problems with being on Unemployment is the sheer lack of information coming from and in some cases limited knowledge that advisers have. I know there's a limit to what can be expected from an adviser but important stuff they should know.

 

 

If they had to

[Shendor]

Sorry to hear of your bad experiences Shendor; no doubt we'll all have to endure the same very soon.

 

Don't forget that you can ask for a change of adviser - and if they ask why then tell them. Your adviser may have had complaints already about her, if she goes on that way with everyone.

 

Ask her to put the bit about 'not paying expenses for daily signings' down in writing - she won't. Even with normal interviews I've found they would never mention expenses, though their guidance quite clearly tells them that they have to pay you. It was only the odd decent adviser who didn't wait for me to demand them.

 

I'm still looking for any sort of official guidance on Help To Work that's been put up by the DWP. Seems to already be in place in some JC's but not others.

 

Thanks Jasta, sound advice.

[Charlotte_Henderson]

 

I said if I chose to sign everyday would they be paying my travel. No. No chance. Forget it.

 

 

 

They are just trying to make poor people even poorer.

[Tj rodgers]

So I've just come from grabbing my ankles at the JCP and I'm fuming. The usual ten minute smile, show job search, write John Hancock and outta there was a 35 minute interrogation. As I've been unemployed for over 3 years and have finished the horror-show that was Ingeus, my advisor told me I MUST now go on a course or sign everyday.

 

I told her this was a punishment and in no way helped me actually GET a job. She just shook her head and said so which is it to be? Your choice... a two-day course on 'Confidence Building' next week or every day sign or sanction? In addition to this I now have to sign every Friday going forward irrespective of which route I chose, yet still only get my JSA paid fortnightly.

 

I said if I chose to sign everyday would they be paying my travel. No. No chance. Forget it.

 

I chose the course. It will be an ABSOLUTE WASTE OF TIME. I don't need to be taught how to wipe my ass, or dress for an interview, or conduct myself not like a moron, thanks. I am fuming. I am being made to feel like a ****** just for being paid JSA. This is disgusting. How ironic they are sending me on a confidence building course when with their every action they are smashing my existing self-esteem, self-respect and confidence into a thousand pieces.

 

EDIT: ALSO - She also basically admitted to me that these new measures are designed to **** off long term claimants into finally 'getting off their arses' and getting a job because the alternative regime will become too intolerable. Nice, huh? Wish I'd recorded the interview.

do u mind me asking what part of the country is your jobcentre?

[Chester6]

They are just trying to make poor people even poorer.

 

If they order you to attend then other then signing days my understandings was they MUST pay your travel and if its a weekly attendance like to do 35 hours job search or the forced labour then they must pay every day's travels

[Mr.P]

Trying to find more info about this new "Help to Work" scheme and came across a pertinent F.o.I. request: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/foi-query-about-giving-help-to-work-guidance-to-jobcentre-advisers-and-managers

 

In a nutshell, the request was for copies of guidance being issued to JCP staff regarding HtW and CWP schemes. The response was to refuse claiming excemption 35 of the Freedom of Information Act - Reading between the lines, I take it to mean "we haven't got a clue what we are doing and will make it up as we go along".

[Tj rodgers]

I think we should let each other know what area are job centres that we attend are in so we can see what areas things are being implemented in and which are not - i attend a jobcentre in Wirral near Liverpool and Chester

[jasta11]

Trying to find more info about this new "Help to Work" scheme and came across a pertinent F.o.I. request: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/foi-query-about-giving-help-to-work-guidance-to-jobcentre-advisers-and-managers

 

In a nutshell, the request was for copies of guidance being issued to JCP staff regarding HtW and CWP schemes. The response was to refuse claiming excemption 35 of the Freedom of Information Act - Reading between the lines, I take it to mean "we haven't got a clue what we are doing and will make it up as we go along".

 

They usually cop-out of replying with 'It may be prejudicial to on-going implementation blah, blah'. As you say, they haven't got a clue - yet some jobcentres have apparently already started the scheme and are asking people to choose their 'punishment'.. just exactly what have the staff in those places been given by way of 'guidance', I wonder??

[boomboomboom]

am not sure if this is the set up in your local job centre but the one me and my friend sign on to they have all there desks down the side of the room and the people who come in to sign on etc in the middle but there is not much gap between me and the jcp and there client there seeing and u can hear everything they say i fought jcp took personal info serious just like the wp but the wp is not taking serious and i guess neither is the job centre as when they ask what is your phone number or address postcode etc i can hear it all.

 

just like my friend today he was in to see a adviser and he said when he sat down he was basically listen in to the chat that the jcp staff and client were having and the jcp adviser was saying u have not much work as i can see u were in jail and asking him what for and my friend said why she asking stuff like this and basically letting other people hear it am sure the boy dont want people to know why he was in jail!

[JustInterested]

Help to Work guidelines:

 

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/201658/response/517413/attach/html/3/HtW%20guidance%20v1%204%202014%2004%2024.pdf.html

[Tj rodgers]

Help to Work guidelines:

 

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/201658/response/517413/attach/html/3/ HtW%20guidance%20v1%204%202014%2004%2024.pdf.html

What is the guidence to the previous post work program support? As i left the work programme last september?

[Tj rodgers]

Help to Work guidelines:

 

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/201658/response/517413/attach/html/3/HtW%20guidance%20v1%204%202014%2004%2024.pdf.html

Also does it make a difference for universal credit as my area region is changin from jsa over to universal credit in july

[Mr.P]

Also does it make a difference for universal credit as my area region is changin from jsa over to universal credit in july

 

Don't think it will make the slightest bit of difference when the changeover to UC occurs. It will be the same selection of punitive measures.

 

A couple of points worth highlighting:

 

Page 4 Paragraph 31

NB: It is DWP policy that claimants are reimbursed travel expenses for interventions that take place on any day other than their usual signing day; reimbursement is not discretionary and is not dependant upon the claimant requesting it.

 

Page 7 Paragraph 59

Payment in advance, particularly issuing weekly bus / rail travel tickets and passes, may be the most cost-effective option to enable claimants to attend Daily Work Search Reviews.

[jasta11]

Help to Work guidelines:

 

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/201658/response/517413/attach/html/3/HtW%20guidance%20v1%204%202014%2004%2024.pdf.html

 

Looks like a minefield.

 

51. Attendance times for those allocated to Daily WSR will be different for

each day of the week

More chance of someone missing an appointment and being sanctioned

 

I bet a lot of these will be placed straight on the Daily WSR so they can be sanctioned for lateness or non-attendance..

'claimants who have a history of poor timekeeping in terms of attending

interviews at the Jobcentre. The timekeeping requirements of Daily

WSR would improve claimant's discipline and understanding of the

importance of timekeeping in a work environment.'

 

Yet again everyone benefits apart from the unemployed people taking part.

[Citizen_x]

Some good info there, Essexmat. I was also reading somewhere that this scheme only applies to those with 3 years+ unemployment who finish the WP after 28th April, so if that's the case a lot of us should escape it as we finished last year. So many conflicting statements in the media. We need clarification of the guidelines - and that doesn't look like happening anytime soon.

 

The DWP have now confirmed this. I still can't post links because I'm a new member, but there's a freedom of information request on the What Do They Know site which covers this. Maybe someone else can find the link and post it. Here's the relevant quote :-

 

"2. The HtW package of support applies to Jobseekers Allowance (JSA)

claimants whose Work Programme Completer Interview (WPCI) is on or after

28 April 2014.

3. Where the WPCI date is prior to 28 April 2014, the previous JSA Post

Work Programme Support (PWPS) guidance must be followed. "

 

So it seems that people who completed the Work Programme before 28th April 2014 will remain on Post Work Programme Support, while those who finish on or after April 28th will be mandated to the Help To Work scheme.

[Mr.P]

I did find this comment to be somewhat laughable:

NB: Due to the length of time spent on Work Programme (WP), many claimants will be unfamiliar with the support available and conditionality / sanction regime attached to their claim. It is, therefore, important that comprehensive explanations are provided.

 

Well sure, many claimants will not know what (if any) support is available from the JCP. But they will know all about the sanction regime !

[jasta11]

The DWP have now confirmed this. I still can't post links because I'm a new member, but there's a freedom of information request on the What Do They Know site which covers this. Maybe someone else can find the link and post it. Here's the relevant quote :-

 

"2. The HtW package of support applies to Jobseekers Allowance (JSA)

claimants whose Work Programme Completer Interview (WPCI) is on or after

28 April 2014.

3. Where the WPCI date is prior to 28 April 2014, the previous JSA Post

Work Programme Support (PWPS) guidance must be followed. "

 

So it seems that people who completed the Work Programme before 28th April 2014 will remain on Post Work Programme Support, while those who finish on or after April 28th will be mandated to the Help To Work scheme.

 

Yes, had that confirmed by my own adviser when I signed on last Thursday. I finished the WP last August and have been on PWP ever since so mercifully I'm spared the humiliation of 'Help To Work'. Apparently it's just 'business as usual' and fortnightly sign-on for the foreseeable future, but I wonder how long they'll let that last - no doubt they'll dream up some new scheme for all those who escaped HTW.

[Tj rodgers]

Yes, had that confirmed by my own adviser when I signed on last Thursday. I finished the WP last August and have been on PWP ever since so mercifully I'm spared the humiliation of 'Help To Work'. Apparently it's just 'business as usual' and fortnightly sign-on for the foreseeable future, but I wonder how long they'll let that last - no doubt they'll dream up some new scheme for all those who escaped HTW.

Yes but if u read further it is buisness as usual until you reach 26 weeks of post work program support then it is at the discrestion of your advisor if you go to daily work search reviews or

Community work placement

[jasta11]

Well I've now been on the PWP for 9 months now - 32 weeks and my adviser said I'm still on it for the foreseeable future, so long may it continue.

 

This is one case where I don't mind them ignoring the guidance

[Tj rodgers]

Well I've now been on the PWP for 9 months now - 32 weeks and my adviser said I'm still on it for the foreseeable future, so long may it continue.

 

This is one case where I don't mind them ignoring the guidance

 

Same here im on my 34th week now but four weeks ago my advisor said i have 6 weeks to find my own voluntary work or hes putting me forward for community work placement but then two weeks later (the last time i saw him) he said hes going to another jobcentre so im going to be getting a new advisor and also a letter saying my area Region will be moving over to universal credit in july so it might all change when i go to sign on this coming tuesday with my new MIR advisor

[kcspurs]

update.

i went on that 2 day course last week.

i sat arouund with about 9 of us while someone from reid spoke about what i will do next to inprove my chances of finding work.

the lady was really nice but im still waiting to get my fares paid back from her boss.

 

i found out im being put on another course for 3 days in june something called 3g course.

 

 

i feel like im just being passed around.

oh that letter never showed up. the one that told me where i had to go on that first course.......

[Tj rodgers]

Well I've now been on the PWP for 9 months now - 32 weeks and my adviser said I'm still on it for the foreseeable future, so long may it continue.

 

This is one case where I don't mind them ignoring the guidance

Well signed on today an only 3 staff in an got told the others were on a course an when i sat down with an advisor to sign she asked me how i was gettin on told me shes makin me an intervention appointment with an advisor who was away on the course an said it was to learn how the help to work scheme can benefit customers an to learn the guidlines an how it works etc and that everybody who finished the work programme more than 26 weeks previous will eventualy have an intervention appointment to give the advisor a chance to intervene with how the customer is looking for work and look at the Help to work scheme as a way of moving forward