work programme after 2 years

[cabvol]

There is a lot of use of the words "volunteer" and "volunteering" here since this new "Help to Work" regime came into force. Am I to take it that people are expected to volunteer to stack shelves at Tesco etc? That this volunteering (even for charities) is mandatory? Mandatory volunteering?

 

What employment rights would you have volunteering to work for a company like Tesco? Volunteers have far fewer rights than employees.

 

I would certainly want to know where I stood with regard to my employment rights as well as the insurance and work and safety issues!

[Mr.P]

Being mandated to undertake "voluntary" work does not make you a "volunteer", just a conscript.

 

You have no rights beyond the most basic of expectations under Health & Safety legislation. You do not qualify for any rights under employment law.

 

Whilst some have an expectation of dignity and respect, a few have reported this is non-existent.

[Tj rodgers]

quick question, whilst you're on this 30 hour slavery are you still supposed to do work search ujm etc etc ?

Yes i get my signin on day off so he wants me to use the computer in the jobcentre that day an to log into universal job match once or twice a week where he will hav sent me sum jobs he has found for me

[Tj rodgers]

There wnt be thousands of people signing everyday its only people who hav finished at the work programme and not doing voluntary work its about 200,000 for the whole country and most will be sent on the mandatory work placements so my guess is they will hav the "dregs" signing everyday the one they suspect of being alcoholics or addicts and come to sign on look worse for wear as they wont get taken on for placements and the rest will be people waiting for a vacant placement to be sent on an they will have u spend a full afternoon on a pc doing jobsearch

[jasta11]

Yes i get my signin on day off so he wants me to use the computer in the jobcentre that day an to log into universal job match once or twice a week where he will hav sent me sum jobs he has found for me

 

Don't forget you can withdraw consent at any time for the DWP to view your UJ account - that would stop him sending rubbish jobs to you. Of course, if the jobs he's finding are decent ones then that's fine.

 

*Heads Up*

Just noticed the DWP Guidance has been updated 28th April (the day the Help To Work scheme started) so it might be best to check out all the new amendments. Here's the page, click on 'See all updates'. Check out anything recently updated, especially Chapter 3c dealing with voluntary and community work, that was updated on 26th April.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/work-programme-dwp-provider-guidance

[JustInterested]

i got told that if u were to sign on u would have to be in the job centre for 30-35 hours a week?

 

That (if it happens at all) is due to start at the end of this year. And it will another trough for the providers to sink their noses into as it won't be hosted at the Jobcentres.

[Shendor]

Can anyone point me to the DWP guidance that states they must pay for my travel costs to and from the JCP, please? I plan to print it off and show it to my advisor tomorrow when she says no it's my responsibility.

Thanks

[Mr.P]

*Heads Up*

Just noticed the DWP Guidance has been updated 28th April (the day the Help To Work scheme started) so it might be best to check out all the new amendments. Here's the page, click on 'See all updates'. Check out anything recently updated, especially Chapter 3c dealing with voluntary and community work, that was updated on 26th April.

 

Some unpleasant news in there for a few. Some ESA claimants can now be mandated to undertake Work Placements (community benefit) - Will need to read the rest of the guidance notes to see what else has changed...

[Tj rodgers]

Some unpleasant news in there for a few. Some ESA claimants can now be mandated to undertake Work Placements (community benefit) - Will need to read the rest of the guidance notes to see what else has changed...

yes they mandated my partener to do work placement and he is on Esa an has been since he turned 18 hes now 30 so he found his own voluntary work at a sue ryder shop before they did

[pineappletree]

Just a thought, how are the jobcentre going to deal with people who have a criminal record? You can't do voluntary work without a CRB check, which if you have a criminal record means you can't do voluntary work

[Shendor]

Just a thought, how are the jobcentre going to deal with people who have a criminal record? You can't do voluntary work without a CRB check, which if you have a criminal record means you can't do voluntary work

 

I imagine they will be the one's who have to sign on everyday then. That'll be nice, won't it? - A thousand angry crims forced to hang around the JCP everyday

[jasta11]

Can anyone point me to the DWP guidance that states they must pay for my travel costs to and from the JCP, please? I plan to print it off and show it to my advisor tomorrow when she says no it's my responsibility.

Thanks

 

Here you go. Basically, if they've asked you to come in specially and it's not your normal signing day, they have to pay your expenses.. whether you ask for them or not.. and it should also be the very first thing they do

[Shendor]

Here you go. Basically, if they've asked you to come in specially and it's not your normal signing day, they have to pay your expenses.. whether you ask for them or not.. and it should also be the very first thing they do

 

That's brill, thanks mate.

(I just hope that if they mandate us to come in every day then that DOESN'T then become a 'normal signing day' and as such they won't have to pay travel)

[jasta11]

Well, I signed on this morning, expecting details of this new Help To Work scheme and... nothing! Everyone signing on as normal.

 

I didn't get to see my usual decent adviser but I asked the one I saw about the scheme and she said it was all still very much 'up in the air' and all they'd been told so far by the manager was a very brief outline of what it would involve. No written guidance has yet been issued and the JC staff are as much in the dark as we are.

 

She definitely was worried about people signing on daily - not happy at all, but she said that even if customers were mandated to sign daily, once the JC were satisfied that the customer was making an effort they could then stop it after a couple of weeks. Obviously they anticipate being inundated so have this as a 'get out' action.

 

So all in all, not much further information to pass on. At least the scheme hasn't started yet - in my JC anyway.

[jasta11]

(I just hope that if they mandate us to come in every day then that then becomes a 'normal signing day' and as such they won't have to pay travel)

 

They mention having to pay people's expenses for the whole week in the form of a bus pass or similar. They couldn't get away with expecting people to travel in 5 days and pay it themselves.

[Mr.P]

Just a thought, how are the jobcentre going to deal with people who have a criminal record? You can't do voluntary work without a CRB check, which if you have a criminal record means you can't do voluntary work

 

err....no....Wrong.

 

You can do voluntary work regardless of any criminal history. It is only where children and vulnerable adults are involved where CRB checks become a requirement.

[essexmat]

Evening all. Thought I would report back on my 'findings' today. I sign on every Thursday but at INGEUS where a JCP rep from my local JCP turns up to sign us on. My INGEUS adviser was on leave (I knew that) but had to go anyway to sign on for my JSA. The person I see is a great chap and we get on well as he knows that I am one of the genuine people that have fallen foul of the economic climate and was made redundant and doing all I can to find work.

 

Anyway, I updated him as usual and said I have a few options and just waiting for them to hopefully come to fruition which he was glad about as he said I deserve to be working and not having to go through this every 2 weeks with my background.

 

I asked him outright about this new scheme and first off he said that with my voluntary work and my good attitude there is no way I would be mandated to ever take part in this scheme and having two voluntary roles where I am using my skills shows I am serious about work and that they would never take that away from someone so they could place them on a scheme such as this.

 

He then went on to explain it was very much 'up in the air' which someone has already alluded to and there has also been some uprising and anger amongst JCP staff with their unions and management about the workability of the scheme and if it can actually work - he even went as far as to say there could be legal implications about forced mandatory labour where skills and experience are not being used and job searching activity time reduced and thus actually having a detrimental effect on the claimant and seeting them up for failure.

 

I then asked him if it was a scheme set up to annoy people enough so they sign off. He refused to answer that point but gave me a look as if to say this was the case and management have laid down targets to try and encourage this.

 

Cheekily I then asked if it would be the people that had never worked or had a bad attitude and had no intention of looking for work that would be subjected to this. He was very coy but basically said every JCP knows which 'clients' are abusing the system and have no intention of wanting to or trying to get work and that these are the people that would be in for a shock - as I call them, and I se plenty every fortnight, the dregs of society that come out of the WP or JCP and spark up and openly drink cans of beer whilst swearing and generally making a nuisance of themselves.

 

So, if you are genuine and are undertaking voluntary work and really trying I don't think you will have a problem - it seems the target is the wastes of space that every JCP has around the country - we all know who they are as we see them when we sign on.

 

For a 10 minute appointment he seemed to enjoy our chat as I was in there for 25 minutes.

Edited May 1, 2014 by honeybee13
Pejorative comments.

[boomboomboom]

Well, I signed on this morning, expecting details of this new Help To Work scheme and... nothing! Everyone signing on as normal.

 

I didn't get to see my usual decent adviser but I asked the one I saw about the scheme and she said it was all still very much 'up in the air' and all they'd been told so far by the manager was a very brief outline of what it would involve. No written guidance has yet been issued and the JC staff are as much in the dark as we are.

 

She definitely was worried about people signing on daily - not happy at all, but she said that even if customers were mandated to sign daily, once the JC were satisfied that the customer was making an effort they could then stop it after a couple of weeks. Obviously they anticipate being inundated so have this as a 'get out' action.

 

So all in all, not much further information to pass on. At least the scheme hasn't started yet - in my JC anyway.

 

 

where about is your job centre?

 

i really dont see the job centre coping with this because there not much staff and if they do bring in more staff its gonna cost much more to the dwp etc.

 

i will find out what i get told in 2 weeks for my first after work programme appointment and my adviser is the one i use to get and shes crabbit as hell (praise the lord) aha

[jasta11]

Some good info there, Essexmat. I was also reading somewhere that this scheme only applies to those with 3 years+ unemployment who finish the WP after 28th April, so if that's the case a lot of us should escape it as we finished last year. So many conflicting statements in the media. We need clarification of the guidelines - and that doesn't look like happening anytime soon.

 

When I signed on today I passed the woman on reception and said as usual 'I'm just signing on'. She asked 'Are you on time?' (first time I've ever been asked this) and I said 'I'm always on time - unlike the advisers'. They must have been having a purge on latecomers, bless 'em.

[boomboomboom]

Some good info there, Essexmat. I was also reading somewhere that this scheme only applies to those with 3 years+ unemployment who finish the WP after 28th April, so if that's the case a lot of us should escape it as we finished last year. So many conflicting statements in the media. We need clarification of the guidelines - and that doesn't look like happening anytime soon.

 

When I signed on today I passed the woman on reception and said as usual 'I'm just signing on'. She asked 'Are you on time?' (first time I've ever been asked this) and I said 'I'm always on time - unlike the advisers'. They must have been having a purge on latecomers, bless 'em.

 

am not sure that is true as my cousin friend had finished is wp course couple of months ago and he has an appointment coming up for help to work scheme. so am not sure if it is true but its confusing all this help to work scheme

[jasta11]

Has he just finished his 2 year course? He should now be starting the Post Work Programme for 6 months, but maybe the DWP has done away with that - it was a waste of time anyway - and is now putting new leavers straight onto the Help To Work scheme.

[Shendor]

So I've just come from grabbing my ankles at the JCP and I'm fuming. The usual ten minute smile, show job search, write John Hancock and outta there was a 35 minute interrogation. As I've been unemployed for over 3 years and have finished the horror-show that was Ingeus, my advisor told me I MUST now go on a course or sign everyday.

 

I told her this was a punishment and in no way helped me actually GET a job. She just shook her head and said so which is it to be? Your choice... a two-day course on 'Confidence Building' next week or every day sign or sanction? In addition to this I now have to sign every Friday going forward irrespective of which route I chose, yet still only get my JSA paid fortnightly.

 

I said if I chose to sign everyday would they be paying my travel. No. No chance. Forget it.

 

I chose the course. It will be an ABSOLUTE WASTE OF TIME. I don't need to be taught how to wipe my ass, or dress for an interview, or conduct myself not like a moron, thanks. I am fuming. I am being made to feel like a ****** just for being paid JSA. This is disgusting. How ironic they are sending me on a confidence building course when with their every action they are smashing my existing self-esteem, self-respect and confidence into a thousand pieces.

 

EDIT: ALSO - She also basically admitted to me that these new measures are designed to **** off long term claimants into finally 'getting off their arses' and getting a job because the alternative regime will become too intolerable. Nice, huh? Wish I'd recorded the interview.

Edited May 3, 2014 by honeybee13

[Mr.P]

I said if I chose to sign everyday would they be paying my travel. No. No chance. Forget it.

 

EDIT: ALSO - She also basically admitted to me that these new measures are designed to **** off long term claimants into finally 'getting off their arses' and getting a job because the alternative regime will become too intolerable. Nice, huh? Wish I'd recorded the interview.

 

The adviser was wrong, see: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?383804-work-programme-after-2-years&p=4526339&viewfull=1#post4526339 - It could be that she already knows what the official rules are but has been instructed by management to say otherwise.

 

The PCS union acknowledges that the new measures serve no purpose other than to frustrate claimants off benefits and increase the stress & workload of their members. Hopefully, things will go in to meltdown shortly and the DWP will have to rethink policy and implementation.

[Shendor]

The adviser was wrong, see: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?383804-work-programme-after-2-years&p=4526339&viewfull=1#post4526339 - It could be that she already knows what the official rules are but has been instructed by management to say otherwise.

 

The PCS union acknowledges that the new measures serve no purpose other than to frustrate claimants off benefits and increase the stress & workload of their members. Hopefully, things will go in to meltdown shortly and the DWP will have to rethink policy and implementation.

 

Yeah, hopefully it will. But it'll be too late for me. I'm living it now. My advisor seemed to take a perverse pleasure in my impotent anger. I'm sure she's not representative of all the hardworking folk on the frontline at JCP. But having now met over twenty in my years of signing, I fear she IS. How do they all sleep at night? What type of person enjoys wielding such small power over another? I'm sick to death of the whole bunch. No sympathy when they pick on some hardnut with MH issues and get their backs broken with one of those blue plastic chairs.

 

I've really had enough now.

Edited May 3, 2014 by honeybee13

[Chester6]

I forget if I have posted in this thread before so I'm sorry if I am repeating a contribution already made

Done the forced labour period so back at the sanction centre where I have been going fortnightly

Had a review twice - both times late with no apology yet they would penalise you if you was late:-x

First time was offered toilet cleaning plus a factory job with a start time of 5am I couldn't get to - none of which are areas of work I am seeking

Second time wasn't so bad

Just found out that it's fortnightly signings with a random member and a 13th week appointment with my PWP bully/vindictive one