work programme after 2 years

[ismael urzaiz]

i can see some jobcentre staff getting thumped over this new system,people with nothing to lose backed into a corner tend to lash out at first available target, also some of the firms taking the people on will be getting products saboutaged, there's no sanction for being clumsy or useless at a task that causes problems for your slave masters

[boomboomboom]

had my appointment today and yes i have 4 weeks to either find my own voluntary work for a charity or if i cnt find any i go on help to work placement under the mandatory work scheme which will be 30 hours per week for 4-6 weeks either in a charity shop/ tescos either bag packing or litter picking in the carpark or at local recycling plant picking objects out of rubbish as it comes down the line but you dnt get to choose which as they just send u on the first available placement

 

they have gave u a month to find your own voluntary work or even a real job i thought the help to work scheme was straight away lol!

 

its weird how u cant pick what u wanted to do as i would like to do local recycling plant picking objects would not mind that.

 

did they not say much to u today at your appointment.

[jasta11]

i can see some jobcentre staff getting thumped over this new system,people with nothing to lose backed into a corner tend to lash out at first available target, also some of the firms taking the people on will be getting products saboutaged, there's no sanction for being clumsy or useless at a task that causes problems for your slave masters

 

There have always been assaults on JC staff, but they're at an all-time high over the last year or so due to the current schemes. The way things are heading now I'm seriously expecting to read very soon about a fatal assault; I can see this happening.

 

We need to get our hands on the guidance..which apparently doesn't exist yet. Hmmm..so if there's no guidance available what exactly were the instructions given to the JC staff then?

[Mr.P]

Folks: Please try to curb any violent outbursts against the front line advisers. Most of them are trying to get through the day the same of the rest of us.

 

Save your anger for the upper management and the ministers in charge - They are the ones setting the policy, so should take the responsibility for the pain and suffering inflicted.

[dyfed]

MWA at the Playboy Mansion please

[jasta11]

Folks: Please try to curb any violent outbursts against the front line advisers. Most of them are trying to get through the day the same of the rest of us.

 

..but sadly some of them are trying to get through the day by deliberately looking to sanction people..and a lot of them aren't even playing by - or even know -the prescribed guidelines either. Even though they're just 'the messengers' they still have a duty and standards to abide by. Naturally violence towards anyone is completely unacceptable though, far better to stay 'in the right' and complain like hell.

[essexmat]

Exactly my thoughts. The problem is work coaches/advisers/[edited] or whatever they are called today will be getting so peeved with what they are being asked to do they will look for any reason to annoy the claimant. Yes, violence is something I am dead against but some of the more vulnerable people who cannot defend themselves legally or generally stick up for themselves will react the only way they can.

Edited April 30, 2014 by honeybee13
Pejorative reference.

[Shendor]

I'm due to sign on Friday, and my advisor has already told me that she will expect me to sign everyday or take a 'volunteering' role for 30 hours a week cleaning out council wheelie bins with my tongue, etc. I'm not a proud man, but I have a Masters Degree and over ten years working experience at Manager level. I honestly don't see how this enforced community service, under threat of sanction, will in any way help me get back into the job's market?

 

I looked on the gov.uk website out of interest about sentencing for criminals and under 'Community Service Orders' I found this -

 

' You may get a community sentence if you’re convicted of a crime by a court but are not sent to prison.

 

You may have to do unpaid work in your local community, like removing graffiti. This is called Community Payback.

 

Community sentences can be given for crimes such as:

 

damaging property

benefit fraud

assault '

 

So am I correct in thinking that being made to carry out up to 30 hours a week unpaid work just for claiming JSA is now akin to being convicted of assault? What's the difference? I'm genuinely scared what will happen on Friday. And looking online, I can't get a definitive answer on what my new rights are either.

[essexmat]

That is absolutely disgraceful and from what you have written I have to agree, the unemployed are now being treated the same as a convicted criminal. Shame on you IDS and your minions, shame on you. What has this country become? Great Britain? Do me a favour

[Mr.P]

[...] my advisor has already told me that she will expect me to sign everyday or take a 'volunteering' role for 30 hours a week cleaning out council wheelie bins with my tongue, etc.

 

Well, for the "good" news - If they drag you in on a daily basis, you are entitled to have your travel expenses paid. This should be by the most economical route which for most people would be the bus (chauffeur driven limo is out). If you gent to "volunteer", argue for, and demand, a role that is suitable for your skills and experience - Chances are, who ever is doing the placements (probably G4S) will be struggling to find charities willing to take anyone on.

 

As always, ask (im)pertinent questions - e.g. Copies of the guidance notes, staff briefings, and legislation that mandates these "activities". Also ask for evidence that this new regime actually improves one's prospect of employment when the pilot schemes suggest the opposite. Turn the ten minute appointment in to a two hour interrogation.

[essexmat]

Quite. Oh, and of course, when sent to a placement before you start ask JCP to provide all the up to date health and safety regulations for the placement, insurance documents for public indemnity, emergency contact numbers and so on. Of course until you are happy you are not obliged to undertake any role until you feel you are in a place of safety. As Mr P says, turn a 10 min appointment in to a 2 hour session and generally annoy the coach/adviser or whatever they are called today

[Shendor]

I hear ya. But my advisor is very 'jobsworth' and passive-aggressive. I just know that if I start to get smart with her, or if she orders me to do a volunteering role (as a fit and healthy 40 year old man with no excuses) and I turn it down, she'll sanction me for failing to make myself available or refusing to carry out a mandated activity, or some-such BS. All I'll get for hassling her is two hours extra time-wasting and a big fat sanction at the end of it for my trouble.

 

Does anyone know if I can refuse a mandated 'volunteering' role on grounds of simply not wanting to?

[Mr.P]

Further questions to ask:

 

• Who is responsible for refunding travel expenses.
  
• Where is the free staff canteen located.
  

 

• Who is the qualified First Aider and when was he/she last tested.
  
• Where is the first aid kit and when was it last checked.
  
• Where is the automated external defibrillator (AED) located.
  

Does anyone know if I can refuse a mandated 'volunteering' role on grounds of simply not wanting to?

You can always refuse anything. However, with it being "mandatory", you will probably collect a sanction within a few minutes of refusing.

 

Get them to withdraw the "offer" in writing - Demand answers to questions (H&S is a good place to start), insist on seeing copies of risk assessments done. If no assessment, ask what other basic checks have been carried out - frustrate the hell out of the company assigned to find these placements and get them to work for each and every taxpayer's penny that they are being paid.

[Shendor]

You can always refuse anything. However, with it being "mandatory", you will probably collect a sanction within a few minutes of refusing.

 

Get them to withdraw the "offer" in writing - Demand answers to questions (H&S is a good place to start), insist on seeing copies of risk assessments done. If no assessment, ask what other basic checks have been carried out - frustrate the hell out of the company assigned to find these placements and get them to work for each and every taxpayer's penny that they are being paid.

 

OK, thanks for advice. I'll report back how it goes on Friday. Wish me luck, I've been feeling stressed and p'd off about it for the last few days now. All this sh*t for £70pw JSA. Awful.

[ismael urzaiz]

can you sort your own mwa or volunteering ? example. you have a friend who has a company and takes you on. does his firm have to register with jc or do they come out and check the firm out ? or would they just be happy that you're off the records and doing something

[essexmat]

Finding your own voluntary roles is something I mentioned before - get them before they get you ...

[jasta11]

If it calls for it, I can go back to the charity shop where I did my A4e placement, as the shop staff were great and it was a very informal atmosphere; didn't even feel like work. I've deliberately made a point of keeping in touch in case the placement situation ever arose in future and they'd be very happy to see me return - plus the shop is next to my normal bus stop in town (which is why I wangled it in the first place). So that's probably the option I'll take if I have to.

 

As for the option of signing on daily, that will obviously not require me to be there for 7 hours as the shop would so in that sense it's better, but I'd need to find out more about what they expect of you daily before I considered it as a viable option - and I have a feeling it would be best to have as little contact with the JC as possible; at least if you're on a placement they leave you the hell alone.

[essexmat]

I agree. Do something YOU want to do and have as little to do with JCP as you can and stay off their radar apart from your signing days.

 

Bear in mind people, when doing a voluntary role they will do DBS checks and reference checks for you so it takes time so if you are worried about JCP slave labour placements start to get your ar*es in to gear NOW!

[dch76]

If you can find your own voluntary placement yourself does it still have to be for 30 hours a week? And does it have to be for a charity, or will ANY voluntary work class as ok?

[jasta11]

Results of a Jobcentre staff survey carried out by PCS Union, dated today.

http://www.pcs.org.uk/en/news_and_events/pcs_comment/index.cfm/sanctions-ineffective-jobcentre-staff-say

 

'Targets for sanctions

In the survey, 23% said they had been given an explicit target for making sanction referrals and 81% said there was an 'expectation' level.

Almost two thirds said they had experienced pressure to refer claimants for a sanction inappropriately.

 

More than one third stated they had been placed on a performance improvement plan (PIP) for not making "enough" referrals and 10% had gone as far as formal performance procedures.

 

The performance system can lead to dismissal so this kind of pressure is a thinly veiled threat to people's jobs.

The DWP is yet to provide any evidence that advisers who make an excessive number of referrals are challenged in the same way.'

 

Pretty damning admissions - but we already knew that anyway.

[essexmat]

Thanks for that, some sorry reading there but as you say, nothing we did not already know.

[boomboomboom]

can anyone tell me if u sign on everyday is it just with your adviser or sometimes signing on and another thing i got told that if u were to sign on u would have to be in the job centre for 30-35 hours a week? surely that is not possible as what the hell are we suppose to do in there offices they have 8 pcs but there gonna be like over a thousand people going to sign on!

[jasta11]

That's one of the many questions I'm going to ask when I sign on tomorrow. My first question is going to be 'Have you got written guidance and if so, can I have a copy please?'. I don't expect to get it that easily though. In fact, I don't expect them to even have it. They must have been told something though, even if only verbally.

 

Even with people who sign on fortnightly, the waiting area is crammed so I can't see them wanting daily signers to hang about for long. It's probably more intended to sicken people by dragging them in each day and hope they sign off - or get a doubt raised for turning up 10 seconds late.

 

I'll let you know what happens tomorrow. If I get my normal adviser I should learn something as she's one of the more decent ones.

[Shendor]

That's one of the many questions I'm going to ask when I sign on tomorrow. My first question is going to be 'Have you got written guidance and if so, can I have a copy please?'. I don't expect to get it that easily though. In fact, I don't expect them to even have it. They must have been told something though, even if only verbally.

 

Even with people who sign on fortnightly, the waiting area is crammed so I can't see them wanting daily signers to hang about for long. It's probably more intended to sicken people by dragging them in each day and hope they sign off - or get a doubt raised for turning up 10 seconds late.

 

I'll let you know what happens tomorrow. If I get my normal adviser I should learn something as she's one of the more decent ones.

 

Yes please, that would be really helpful. I'm signing on Friday and crapping myself about it tbh.

[boomboomboom]

That's one of the many questions I'm going to ask when I sign on tomorrow. My first question is going to be 'Have you got written guidance and if so, can I have a copy please?'. I don't expect to get it that easily though. In fact, I don't expect them to even have it. They must have been told something though, even if only verbally.

 

Even with people who sign on fortnightly, the waiting area is crammed so I can't see them wanting daily signers to hang about for long. It's probably more intended to sicken people by dragging them in each day and hope they sign off - or get a doubt raised for turning up 10 seconds late.

 

I'll let you know what happens tomorrow. If I get my normal adviser I should learn something as she's one of the more decent ones.

 

i agree it is crammed every fortnight i sign on so a just cant see how signing on everyday is gonna help it plus if its true to be in the job centre for 30 hours a week i doubt that what can u do there only so many jobs u can apply for not everyday will have a job for u up online.if its signing on everyday and its for like a quick 10 mins i would not mind signing on as i live like 10-15 minute walk depending on getting by traffic.

 

but if u could let me know aswell like what your adviser says as i have my post work thing in 2weeks as i will be finished my WP before that date.