work programme after 2 years

[sillygirl1]

I can assure ANYONE on this site that if the Work Providers claim they are going to ring every job you have applied for to find out if you put your application in that the person stating this doesn't know what they are on about.

 

HR Departments will NOT give this information out, unless of course the Work Providers pay for it! They do not have the resources and anyway it is against Data Protection for them to reveal to anyone (even a recruiting manager) who has applied for a particular post and whether they have had the application.

 

This is why they are relying on UJM to do the work they thought they could do. I still see no real reason why people strongly object to it if it stops them hassling you - they CANNOT see everything you do on a computer it is on, they CANNOT stop you from looking via other websites and they CANNOT continue to chase you once you have employment.

 

I had an email from UJM saying I hadn't logged in for a year - well I've been working - so they are going to close my account. Which is quite a relief to me as it stops all the unsuitable jobs they have been sending.

[Mr.P]

This is why they are relying on UJM to do the work they thought they could do. I still see no real reason why people strongly object to it if it stops them hassling you.

 

I can think of a very good reason for not allowing DWP access - You do a job search and find that "perfect job", do a little bit of research and find it is a [problem] so decide not to apply. DWP see that you didn't apply, issue a sanction. Alternatively, an adviser spams everyone in his/her folder when a fictitious vacancy appears, you recognise it for what it is, bingo. Another sanction.

 

The UJM has little to do with helping people to find work - It is primarily a system to monitor peoples activity at a reduced cost and generate benefit doubts for those that choose to use alternative methods of finding work.

[Perseus1]

I can think of a very good reason for not allowing DWP access - You do a job search and find that "perfect job", do a little bit of research and find it is a [problem] so decide not to apply. DWP see that you didn't apply, issue a sanction. Alternatively, an adviser spams everyone in his/her folder when a fictitious vacancy appears, you recognise it for what it is, bingo. Another sanction.

 

The UJM has little to do with helping people to find work - It is primarily a system to monitor peoples activity at a reduced cost and generate benefit doubts for those that choose to use alternative methods of finding work.

 

Write it down on your job log or apply for the job anyway.

 

I sign up with Recruitment Agencies and just cut and paste including reference numbers. Reference numbers are important if I want to track the application. It is easier. Does not mean I don't forget to record some. Just less likely to.

[Emma078]

I went to sign on today after being given a job seekers direction to provide evidence of my job search (which I always do anyway). My appointment was for 1pm (with the person who supposed to have seen me 3 times now but always passes me to someone else) well surprise they didn't see me today either, I was told to come back at 2.30pm to see someone else. After waiting outside for the time to slowly pass I went back in. The person I saw said I'm sending your claim to a decision maker because you haven't done the direction that was given to you, which I replied that I have and shown them everything written out including the dates, job id, email addresses and was told it wasn't enough and why haven't I given them access to my universal jobmatch account (I'm so sick of being asked that) after going on I got annoyed and asked to see the manager. He was a idiot to and told me its up to him whether he pays me or not and I've not done enough to find work. He went on universal jobmatch and was looking at jobs up to 40 miles away saying look on this page alone there's 1,2,3 and started counting them, to which I had to say a few times your counting apprenticeships, ones in the heading saying 18 to 24 year olds only, and your not clicking them on to see if experience is needed. He just said I'm sending it to a decision maker and told the women to start the claim and left. After the women was messing on the computer I signed on, was given a appointment for 2 weeks times and then she told me I need to fill in the booklet everyday of what I'm doing, how long, etc... if I don't she'll send it of to a decision maker again. I shown her the freedom of information act on my phone where it says it up to us how we provide evidence and she just said well its something to show the citizens advice, not me

 

Can't believe their trying to sanction me again (well I can). My 13 week sanction comes to a end on the 26th of this month and all I'm getting now is hardship, which they are still taking nearly £15 out for a social fund repayment, so all I get is £70 a fortnight which I'm really struggling on. Don't know how I'll survive on this for another 6 months if/when the decision maker sanctions me again

 

Back to the jobcentre tomorrow (yippee) for a assessment interview for a 3 week employability course, so that should be fun

[Tj rodgers]

1) Doctor: have a word with him and explain the position. I am not qualified or think it is my job to advise on this. If want to claim ESA you will need a fitness note (or sickness note). It will specifiy a period of time, say 3 months. The GP can add comments like restrictions in the type of work you can do. It would be worth going to the Doctor and try and get his advice anyway. Sometimes they may feel that suitability for work is outside their remit.

I went to my doctor for purpose to be cured, but it will take time for me. I asked for a prognosis. It was not advantageous for me to claim ESA so it was different. I am much older.

2) If you want to claim ESA you have to ring up the DWP will send you a form to complete, or the large form can be completed online.

You will have to sign off JSA and it is important to do this because the claim for ESA will be delayed.

3) Then you receive the assessment rate of ESA until you have to attend an ATOS asessment which may take 13 weeks or more. ATOS will almost certainly examine you not by a Doctor but another health professional. Most probably they will give you nil points and pronounce you fit for work. Then you can appeal. At this stage, if not now, you may need more expert advice.

 

So it is a rather circular process. So I would not be very keen to do it, unless you really are quite ill. Doctors seem to know all about this and may not sign a sickness certificate. The DWP may write to your GP for a medical opinion, tests etc. I liked this to make sure I was getting adequate medical treatment on the NHS.

 

There is an alternative after going to your Doctor. You could ask the Job Centre if you can see the Disability Advisor. This may not be possible because they are very busy people.

 

There is one great advantage for claiming ESA and that is the opportunity to do permitted part time work and get paid up to £100 a week in addition to your benefit. This last lasts for one year and is meant to ease you into full time work with people with reduced capacity medical conditions. If you want to take that route ask about it, saying for medical reasons you do not think you are capable of doing full time work straight away. It will be just as competitive trying to get those jobs so you have to make it clear about it.

i got my doctors note but it is only for 10days so do i just move frm jsa to Esa for 10 days then back to Esa? Any help much appreciated x

[hatsanman]

i got my doctors note but it is only for 10days so do i just move frm jsa to Esa for 10 days then back to Esa? Any help much appreciated x

you have to keep going back to your doctor when your sicknote runs out. depends what you are on esa for. ive been claiming esa now for over 3 months and still not been assesed so each time my sick note runs out i go back to doctor to get another. hope this helps.

[bcham]

I went to sign on today after being given a job seekers direction to provide evidence of my job search (which I always do anyway). My appointment was for 1pm (with the person who supposed to have seen me 3 times now but always passes me to someone else) well surprise they didn't see me today either, I was told to come back at 2.30pm to see someone else. After waiting outside for the time to slowly pass I went back in. The person I saw said I'm sending your claim to a decision maker because you haven't done the direction that was given to you, which I replied that I have and shown them everything written out including the dates, job id, email addresses and was told it wasn't enough and why haven't I given them access to my universal jobmatch account (I'm so sick of being asked that) after going on I got annoyed and asked to see the manager. He was a idiot to and told me its up to him whether he pays me or not and I've not done enough to find work. He went on universal jobmatch and was looking at jobs up to 40 miles away saying look on this page alone there's 1,2,3 and started counting them, to which I had to say a few times your counting apprenticeships, ones in the heading saying 18 to 24 year olds only, and your not clicking them on to see if experience is needed. He just said I'm sending it to a decision maker and told the women to start the claim and left. After the women was messing on the computer I signed on, was given a appointment for 2 weeks times and then she told me I need to fill in the booklet everyday of what I'm doing, how long, etc... if I don't she'll send it of to a decision maker again. I shown her the freedom of information act on my phone where it says it up to us how we provide evidence and she just said well its something to show the citizens advice, not me

 

Can't believe their trying to sanction me again (well I can). My 13 week sanction comes to a end on the 26th of this month and all I'm getting now is hardship, which they are still taking nearly £15 out for a social fund repayment, so all I get is £70 a fortnight which I'm really struggling on. Don't know how I'll survive on this for another 6 months if/when the decision maker sanctions me again

 

Back to the jobcentre tomorrow (yippee) for a assessment interview for a 3 week employability course, so that should be fun

ive been on two 3 week employability courses. and got two city and guilds level 1 certificates.both the same,they will no doubt send me again for the same course.

[Mr.P]

[...]asked to see the manager. He was a idiot to and told me its up to him whether he pays me or not and I've not done enough to find work.

 

Errmmm... nope. It is not a manager's decision as to whether you get paid JSA. Neither is it for him to judge that you have done enough to find work - In both cases, it is for a Decision Maker to review the evidence and make the decision.

 

If you have done everything that has been asked of you in respect to job search and evidence, then this "manager" is just being an a***. Rise above it and resist the temptation to react out of anger or frustration.

[Tj rodgers]

you have to keep going back to your doctor when your sicknote runs out. depends what you are on esa for. ive been claiming esa now for over 3 months and still not been assesed so each time my sick note runs out i go back to doctor to get another. hope this helps.

so how will they check if i was fit for work or not when mine only lasts 10days? By the time they want to asses me i be back on jsa hopefully

[antone]

so how will they check if i was fit for work or not when mine only lasts 10days? By the time they want to asses me i be back on jsa hopefully

 

Prior to your assessment every day of your claim needs to be covered by a doctor's note. Well, there are a few technicalities, but as a general rule, you should seek a cert for every day.

[jasta11]

Emma, if an advisor has issued a jobseekers direction to make you give access to your UJ then this is totally wrong and should be reported at the highest level both to the DWP and especially the PCS Union, who have in the past issued clear instructions to Jobcentre staff that they cannot make customers give them access to their UJ account. Ask your advisor for the direction in writing - I'll bet they won't do this because they know they're acting out of line.

 

I actually have a line at the top of my home-made Job Log which says 'Any attempt to coerce access to UJ account will be treated as harrassment and reported to DWP District & Regional managers, PCS Union and Data Protection organisation'. No advisor ever mentions it now

 

Also, the DWP are not allowed to seek feedback on any vacancies you applied for unless they found it for you - ie a 'matched' notified vacancy. Anything you find yourself they can only seek feedback if they have your express permission. I would imagine this would also apply to the Work Program bods too. If they ask you to get feedback then that's fair enough, but they themselves can't just ring up employers as they wish as this could, in some cases like Local Government vacancies, cause your application to be rejected.

[Tj rodgers]

Orders of action:

 

1) Go to see your Doctor. Get a fitness note. You doctor has the option to recommend working with conditions.

2) Have a word with the Job Centre staff and ask for a meeting with the Disablement Officer (optional)

3) Ring up DWP.

i got my doctors note and was awarded Esa for 3 weeks but it ends wednesday coz im better now as it was for bronchitis so i open a new Jsa claim again on thursday but does anybody know where i will start frm as during my old jsa claim which ended 2 weeks ago i was at post work program support stage -does my new claim mean i go back to the start as a new customer or not?

[JasonB86]

I have just started the work programme. My job centre advisor sent me to the Seetec provider.

 

I started on the 27th January where i completed the two week induction and i am currently on stage one. Stage one consists of four weeks going to the local centre on two days a week between 9-5 pm.

 

So far my time on the programme has been appalling. During the five weeks i've been on the programme, i've sat with my advisor only once and that was for less than 20 minutes. I sat with them while they sent off for four jobs matching my previous working experience.

 

I also have to sign a register four times! Once at 9am, 11am, 1pm and 3pm or five if you count the "health and safety register"

 

In the afternoon you go in to a training room where you have a "session" Last monday i had a session on "stepping stone jobs" a 40 minute session which wasn't even delivered properly, all he did was babble on for 40 minutes on how we might go for a job we might not like to fill the gap in a CV.

 

I'm seriously thinking of coming off this programme. They've told me my interview techniques and CV are fine and i'm spending the majority of the time sitting in a room doing something i could be doing at home with out like feeling like a school kid/prisoner.

 

Whom at the job centre do i complain to about this so called "work programme"?

[tfp]

Who do you complain to at the jobcentre? I'm not sure you'll get much of a hearing I'm afraid. As long as you are on the WP, JCP washes it's hands of you with regards support (other than box ticking style job search checking, applying sanctions and signing).

 

 

Before going onto the WP, I had a right argument with a scruff bag of an adviser (wore the same clothes every week) about the nature of the providers delivering the WP. At the end of it, I advised him to read the evidence about such companies I had with me.

 

 

Perhaps complain to the providers head office and the Independent Case examiner. Also, as well as forums such as this, get yourself onto radio phone ins on the subject and contact any interested journalists. This is exactly what I have done and more besides.

[JasonB86]

My local Seetec are also short staffed or so they keep telling us.

 

This morning another WP customer had a go at a Seetec member of staff running the launchpad session for single mums. Apparently a group of single mums doing a work related activity was too noisy for him! They weren't bothering me but this was the same man that was blairing out his dance music for the entire room to hear.

 

It's a complete joke and i'm tempted to sign off.

[Mr.P]

I'm seriously thinking of coming off this programme.

 

Whom at the job centre do i complain to about this so called "work programme"?

 

You can not "just come off the Work Programme" - You have been mandated to attend for two years from the date of your initial contact with Seetec. There are limited ways to exit the programme early:

 

• Get a job (Seetec then claim an outcome payment for your efforts).
  
• Sign off and live on savings, goodwill, or charity (Seetec will still try to claim an outcome payment).
  
• Enter full time education - Great if you can secure funding and have the means to live for the duration.
  
• Retire and claim state pension - Not many have reached that stage of life.
  
• Die - Not really a viable option as there is no return if you don't like it (Seetec will still try to claim their outcome payments).
  

Complaining to the DWP and/or the WP provider will achieve nothing. The complaint will be dismissed as a disgruntled claimant failing to "engage" with the provider. You'd be better off contacting you MP and challenge him/her as to whether the Work Programme is delivering value for money and achieving the targets that the government expects. Going to the press is always another option, but few reporters are interested (Shiv Malik & Amelia Gentleman, both from the Guardian, have an interest in WP failures).

[Tj rodgers]

I was on jsa and was at the Post-work-programme-support stage but had to sign off onto Esa after my 3rd period of sickness in 12months even though it only lasted 3 weeks -when i go back to make a new claim for Jsa at end of next week does anybody know if i go back to post work programme support? Or will i be treated as a new claim an go right back to the start? Any help is much appreciated thanks x

[Beatrice Bee]

Last year I was off JSA for almost 6 months yet when I signed on again, I had to continue with the Work Programme to complete the two years with them.

 

Guessing PWPS is the same and you continue with them.

[Beatrice Bee]

To Emma078 about her post above:

When they issued you with a jobseeker's direction to provide evidence about your job search, I think it means print outs and screen shots of your fortnightly job applications. As for "not doing enough to find work": they are tricky ****s because in your Jobseeker's Agreement it says apply for at least 5 jobs a week and you think you have done enough if you apply for 10 a week. Then they still claim you haven't done enough.

[essexmat]

I am only 3 weeks in to INGEUS and already starting to lose my rag with them. If I can find a way to earn £70p/w even if it is cleaning toilets I will get myself off off this 'programme' before it makes me ill. Let's not beat about the bush, they do not care one iota about any of us, they are robots and behind the friendly attitude I get when I go there I see past it and see resentment and them thinking another loser to see.

Edited March 2, 2014 by honeybee13

[Charlotte_Henderson]

I am only 3 weeks in to INGEUS and already starting to lose my rag with them. If I can find a way to earn £70p/w even if it is cleaning toilets I will get myself off off this 'programme' before it makes me ill. Let's not beat about the bush, they do not care one iota about any of us, they are robots and behind the friendly attitude I get when I go there I see past it and see resentment and them thinking another loser to see.

 

As ive said many times before, all ingeus care about is their bonus at the end of the month.

[Charlotte_Henderson]

To Emma078 about her post above:

When they issued you with a jobseeker's direction to provide evidence about your job search, I think it means print outs and screen shots of your fortnightly job applications. As for "not doing enough to find work": they are tricky ****s because in your Jobseeker's Agreement it says apply for at least 5 jobs a week and you think you have done enough if you apply for 10 a week. Then they still claim you haven't done enough.

 

If it says you've got to apply for 5 a week and you do 10 i think you've done more than enough. mine says i have to do 6 a fortnight, but i always managed 1 a day everyday.

[jasta11]

Always give them more than they ask for - if nothing else it lessens the chance of them picking on you if they see you've done way over what they asked. Hard to raise a sanction doubt in that case.

 

When it suits them, they'll say your JS Agreement is 'only a guide', even though it's actually the core document of your claim to benefits and so should be as binding as a contract. Other times they'll stick to the JS Agreement very precisely - again, only when it suits them.

 

I used to get this at work a lot; whenever I quoted the rules they were just 'guidelines and open to interpretation' but if the boss quoted them they were suddenly 'hard fact'. Old trick.

 

Don't give them the chance to find any fault. Click on a few more applications and play safe.

[joeski]

You can not "just come off the Work Programme" - You have been mandated to attend for two years from the date of your initial contact with Seetec. There are limited ways to exit the programme early:

 

 

• Get a job (Seetec then claim an outcome payment for your efforts).
  
• Sign off and live on savings, goodwill, or charity (Seetec will still try to claim an outcome payment).
  
• Enter full time education - Great if you can secure funding and have the means to live for the duration.
  
• Retire and claim state pension - Not many have reached that stage of life.
  
• Die - Not really a viable option as there is no return if you don't like it (Seetec will still try to claim their outcome payments).
  

 

Complaining to the DWP and/or the WP provider will achieve nothing. The complaint will be dismissed as a disgruntled claimant failing to "engage" with the provider. You'd be better off contacting you MP and challenge him/her as to whether the Work Programme is delivering value for money and achieving the targets that the government expects. Going to the press is always another option, but few reporters are interested (Shiv Malik & Amelia Gentleman, both from the Guardian, have an interest in WP failures).

 

 

what about if you go onto ESA like my friend, will he still have to attend the WP (ingeus)? he received another appointment from them for next tuesday, the only difference is this one is missing the part about it been mandatory, does that mean it is still mandatory though? :/

[antone]

what about if you go onto ESA like my friend, will he still have to attend the WP (ingeus)? he received another appointment from them for next tuesday, the only difference is this one is missing the part about it been mandatory, does that mean it is still mandatory though? :/

 

Has he made his ESA claim yet?