Jump to content


work programme after 2 years


bcham
style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 3352 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Ok, thank you.

Here is the ready made screen shot for everyone to print out if you want.

 

These Front Line Advisers act upon their management's direction when repeatedly pestering us to allow access to our account.

 

It was interesting to read the following fact on the Public and Commercial Services Union website someone up here posted a link to:

 

"Advisors, following what they believed to be a "reasonable management request" will not face disciplinary action as a result of their action."

 

It was about advisors setting up universal job match accounts for claimants. Now how daft is that? They will know the password if they set up the account.

 

Bottom line is: when we go to the JCP manager to complain about Jobseeker's Direction issued to allow access to DWP to our UJ account, it is the manager who instructed the advisers to do so, who else would have been??

 

Yet if we stand up for our rights and speak to the manager about it waiving the print out of the Decision Makers guidance relevant points: will they still have the guts to refer us to compliance doubt to DMA.

 

Of course the whole thing put into writing, evidence attached, posted to JCP manager, proof of posting retained, saying in letter you keep copy of this letter and proof of posting: even more efficient and even more likely to **** them off and find another way to sanction you if they wish.

 

Today saw it on telly in parliament they said "there is 30% less people receiving JSA than a year ago" [to show what the government achieved to reduce unemployment to win the elections in May]. I wanted to shout: it is because you sanctioned 30% of the claimants for next to nothing or unlawfully to doctor your figures.

 

It is the number of JSA claimants they should be stating, not the number of people receiving JSA. The two are totally different as most claimants will know. At least up here.

 

Yes, they are trying to drive you to work by making work much easier than avoiding these unfair sanctions. Yet even when you really want that job because sanction doubt and JSA suspended and there is no job or they say no in the interview: that's reality and instead of lining the pockets of private Work Programme contractors who do nothing for 2 years to help us find work, they should spend that money creating meaningful jobs, not Seetec adviser jobs.

 

Create school places, extra staff in the NHS to support all these immigrants who moved in. They ain't gonna go back, 1 million Eastern Europeans moved in within 10 years so there is a need for extra services: create those jobs, more midwifes needed for the Polish girls popping out babies, please.

 

We work and will work if there are jobs, unless the 3 generations who never worked UK under class. Cut their benefits if they never worked and do not punish uni graduates with sanctions for not attending JCP appointments about which they never received a letter. Because it was never sent.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]48652[/ATTACH]

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Replies 1.2k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

It does say that they can ask us to show print outs of our account so careful about that one..

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]48650[/ATTACH]

 

There's another FOI response from DWP Central Office dated 22 July last year that clearly states we don't have to provide screen prints - extrect below;

 

'In response to the question you have raised about requiring jobsearch evidence from Universal

Jobmatch. Advisers cannot mandate claimants to give them access to their Universal

Jobmatch account, nor can they force a claimant to print out screen prints of their UJ account.

The extracts below from Chapter 3 of the Universal Jobmatch Toolkit clearly explain the

parameters when assessing what a claimant has done to look for work within Universal

Jobmatch.'

 

The actual wording in the Universal Jobmatch Toolkit (Chapter 3, paragraph 87) says advisors can only suggest a customer provides screen prints. Naturally, the advisors will purposely interpret this as 'must' supply screen prints and if the customer doesn't know the guidance they'll no doubt accept this as gospel. I've pointed this out to a couple of advisors before and they've never pushed the matter.

 

I always insist on the advisor signing and dating my evidence sheets, plus I always ask them if the evidence was satisfactory so I have an audio recording of them confirming it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I know. You are right.

 

There days I stress too much about the WP / JCP wanting to sanction us on purpose. This blooming JSA is the life line for most of us and the prospects beyond are gloomy. Went to an interview and in the ad it says nanny / housekeeper. When I was there it was called au-pair which made it clear to me that they are not going to pay taxes and NI. Now I can not afford that because the government is bringing in contributory benefits, at least for EU migrants: depending how much you paid in [taxes], you may be eligible for benefits after a certain number of years in the UK, for a fixed amount of time.

 

So what's the point of working for slave wages, no NI and taxes paid. No clue how to be self-employed to pay my own taxes and NI: it seems scary, difficult and at least £200 for an accountant.

 

Anyone seen Benefits Street part 1 and 2? Hilarious, part 1 was better. Growing cannabis in the spare room "to pay the bedroom tax", Fungi working more than a city worker [big issue, sweeping]. Shocking that the young couple with the 2 children got benefits stopped and had to live on £30 child benefit.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, English is my second language, yet I interpret the word "may" as permission in the context.

 

You may ask the claimant to show you print outs of certain pages of his Universal Jobmatch account, provided he has access to printer or cash to print.

 

If not, you may ask him to show it to you on his smart phone. If no such phone, provide access to a JCP internet access device so that client is stuffed one way or another because the adviser has always got a computer in front of her face on the desk.

 

Please read the exact words of the policy below. To me "adviser may ask client to show print outs" means adviser has permission [from DWP] to ask client to show print outs.

Link to post
Share on other sites

[...] provide access to a JCP internet access device so that client is stuffed one way or another because the adviser has always got a computer in front of her face on the desk.

 

To allow a client use of an adviser's computer would be a serious breach of DWP IT policy and could see the adviser being sacked for gross misconduct. The JCP "internet access device" is a sanitized terminal heavily restricted so that it can not access internal DWP systems.

 

In answer to your last point: Yes, the JCP adviser [has DWP permission] to ask to see printouts if the client has access to a printer. Note - The guidance says ask, not "demand".

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

No... you can't eat my brain just yet. I need it a little while longer.

Link to post
Share on other sites

"Universal jobmatch and benefit conditionality

 

81, Universal Jobmatch will be a key performance enabler in terms of making sure benefit is only paid to claimants who are entitled to receive it"

 

In other words it is a sanctioning machine and the "performance enabling" refers to them being enabled to get the sanction targets they are given from high above.

 

Better watch some telly and chill rather than get heart attack over what might happen.

 

Or what may happen. In which case may is used to expressed possibility, not permission.

Link to post
Share on other sites

OK. It also says that it is the client's choice how they provide their job search evidence.

So if I end up having to show my Uni Jobmatch job application activity history which has nothing listed on it, on an utterly sooper dooper secure IAD to my advisor, I can cover my back quoting the right point that it is my choice how I provide evidence hence it is on paper and nothing at all online in account.

I type slowly and only get one hour a day in the library from which I was banned in another borough for 3 months because getting stressed easily as people sit too close to me on the computer. Getting banned from a library is quite an achievement.

Link to post
Share on other sites

OK. It also says that it is the client's choice how they provide their job search evidence.

So if I end up having to show my Uni Jobmatch job application activity history which has nothing listed on it, on an utterly sooper dooper secure IAD to my advisor, I can cover my back quoting the right point that it is my choice how I provide evidence hence it is on paper and nothing at all online in account.

I type slowly and only get one hour a day in the library from which I was banned in another borough for 3 months because getting stressed easily as people sit too close to me on the computer. Getting banned from a library is quite an achievement.

 

This is why I only ever apply for UJ vacancies which give you an alternative means of application, ie if the vacancy says something like 'To apply, visit our website at XXXX' or they give you a link to another agency, such as CV-Library.co.uk who will be handling the vacancy for them.

 

You note down the UJ vacancy number, apply via the external link - recording their vacancy number - and usually you'll get an acknowledgement email as hard proof you applied. The JC then has everything they need to confirm that you've used UJ, found a vacancy and applied for it...and all without having access to your UJ account.

 

Of course they'll moan on about you not storing everything on UJ, but you're using the site, finding vacancies and have proof of your application. If they tried to refer you for a sanction they wouldn't have a leg to stand on - and they know it.

 

Remember, the most they can ever do is just mandate you to register with UJ and create a public profile - plus the usual 'check UJ once a day' condition of nearly all JS agreements. At present, there's no hard requirement to store anything on there (though no doubt it will happen one day).

Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting fun and games signing on yesterday while still on the PWP...

 

Advisor mentioned providing screen prints from UJ as proof of job application, to which I replied 'Pointless, as I always apply externally so don't record any activity on there, plus in any event screen prints can only be suggested, not enforced'. 'There's new guidance which now says you HAVE to provide screen prints' she then said. 'Show me' said I. 'I would but I haven't got time as I'm signing people on' she replied. Hmm...

 

So I then showed her some real guidance (FOI response) saying screen prints couldn't be forced, and she backed down immediately - rather annoyed too, I noticed. She then asked for evidence of my normal 5 a week applications, which I offered to print out on the public computer but apparently there was a small crowd already waiting to use them. I suggested emailing them to her later in the day, which she said was acceptable - but she couldn't put through my payment until then. Never had that said to me before; she's obviously still annoyed I called her bluff about the fake guidance.

 

She gave me her DWP email address and when I attempted later to mail her the evidence, up came 'Mail Delivery Failure'. Her email address did not exist. A quick phone call to the JC and one of her colleagues gave me the correct address - quite a chunk had been left out of the address the advisor had given me.

 

Carelessness??.. or a deliberate attempt to stop me sending in the jobsearch evidence?? Had I not seen the initial 'mail failure' message I would have assumed my evidence had been sent...she would naturally not have received it, having given me the wrong address...and we all know what would have happened after that, don't we?

 

No way to prove it was deliberate, obviously - though I do have a lovely clear digital recording of her telling me about this 'new guidance' which doesn't appear anywhere. Useful ammunition for the future. I even emailed her asking her to kindly send me a copy of this guidance for my records - not surprisingly she hasn't :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

She gave me her DWP email address and when I attempted later to mail her the evidence, up came 'Mail Delivery Failure'.

 

Carelessness??.. or a deliberate attempt to stop me sending in the jobsearch evidence??

 

 

 

Always get the adviser to write these things down - Get them to provide the rope....

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

No... you can't eat my brain just yet. I need it a little while longer.

Link to post
Share on other sites

They wrote down their email address on a post-it note and gave it to me, so I have the evidence. They not only left out a digit after their name but also left out the '.gov' part of the ending, so no way would my mail have ever reached them. This advisor has been there for years so hard to believe they still don't know their own work email address. Obviously they'll claim 'I was overworked with clients signing on and it was a genuine error'.

 

Concerning the fictitious 'guidance', I've just now emailed the Regional Secretary of the Northern PCS - who is known for his strong stance on DWP wrongdoing - relating what the advisor said and asking for a copy. I anticipate his reply will start with 'would you give me the name of this advisor please' :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Does anybody know how to move from jsa to esa? I have asthma and it has become increasingly worse over the last 18mnths due to stress and other health problems and find it difficult even walking 100 yards without stopping to use my inhaler i also suffer with depression an my family an a friend feel if i spoke to sumbody i would likely be signed off but ive always been to proud to go an talk about it coz i dnt like the thought of people thinkin i would do anythin not to have a job an go to work so ive just let it go on an i wouldnt know how to start the ball rolling anyway who do i speak to first ? Jobcentre plus ? Ring Dwp? Or Go to My Doctor first ? Any Help Would be Much Appreciated thanks

TJR JNR

Link to post
Share on other sites

GP first - No point in even trying for ESA without medical evidence.

Next stop, DWP and loads of forms to fill in.

 

Best of luck.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

No... you can't eat my brain just yet. I need it a little while longer.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Does anybody know how to move from jsa to esa? I have asthma and it has become increasingly worse over the last 18mnths due to stress and other health problems and find it difficult even walking 100 yards without stopping to use my inhaler i also suffer with depression an my family an a friend feel if i spoke to sumbody i would likely be signed off but ive always been to proud to go an talk about it coz i dnt like the thought of people thinkin i would do anythin not to have a job an go to work so ive just let it go on an i wouldnt know how to start the ball rolling anyway who do i speak to first ? Jobcentre plus ? Ring Dwp? Or Go to My Doctor first ? Any Help Would be Much Appreciated thanks

 

I had the same sort of problem, a physical intermittent ailment and I am in process of changing over and I can advise of the procedure and the snags. There are also advantages.

 

However, it is also possible for this to result in a large reduction in benefit, so I cannot reeocmmend this action for everyone.

 

The three pertinent questions to ask are

 

1) Do you receive the DLA premium in addition to JSA? (If so, at what rate?) This is IMPORTANT.

2) What is your age?

3) Are you on the Work Programme? Or do you visit the Job Centre? (or have you been on the Work Programme before?)

 

You can reply privately if you want.

 

You will have to have a word with your Doctor and he will have to send in medical certificates and this might be the first step regardless.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Orders of action:

 

1) Go to see your Doctor. Get a fitness note. You doctor has the option to recommend working with conditions.

2) Have a word with the Job Centre staff and ask for a meeting with the Disablement Officer (optional)

3) Ring up DWP.

Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks for the reply im 28 i have never claimed DLA before and im at post work program support

 

1) Doctor: have a word with him and explain the position. I am not qualified or think it is my job to advise on this. If want to claim ESA you will need a fitness note (or sickness note). It will specifiy a period of time, say 3 months. The GP can add comments like restrictions in the type of work you can do. It would be worth going to the Doctor and try and get his advice anyway. Sometimes they may feel that suitability for work is outside their remit.

I went to my doctor for purpose to be cured, but it will take time for me. I asked for a prognosis. It was not advantageous for me to claim ESA so it was different. I am much older.

2) If you want to claim ESA you have to ring up the DWP will send you a form to complete, or the large form can be completed online.

You will have to sign off JSA and it is important to do this because the claim for ESA will be delayed.

3) Then you receive the assessment rate of ESA until you have to attend an ATOS asessment which may take 13 weeks or more. ATOS will almost certainly examine you not by a Doctor but another health professional. Most probably they will give you nil points and pronounce you fit for work. Then you can appeal. At this stage, if not now, you may need more expert advice.

 

So it is a rather circular process. So I would not be very keen to do it, unless you really are quite ill. Doctors seem to know all about this and may not sign a sickness certificate. The DWP may write to your GP for a medical opinion, tests etc. I liked this to make sure I was getting adequate medical treatment on the NHS.

 

There is an alternative after going to your Doctor. You could ask the Job Centre if you can see the Disability Advisor. This may not be possible because they are very busy people.

 

There is one great advantage for claiming ESA and that is the opportunity to do permitted part time work and get paid up to £100 a week in addition to your benefit. This last lasts for one year and is meant to ease you into full time work with people with reduced capacity medical conditions. If you want to take that route ask about it, saying for medical reasons you do not think you are capable of doing full time work straight away. It will be just as competitive trying to get those jobs so you have to make it clear about it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

PS: Don't forget the Job Centre people are meant to help you find work and not just dole out the Government spare change.

 

So there are people to help you. Like Careers Advice (search online), cheap computers (£100 desktop), computer training courses to give you skills, probably other training as well. I wish I was young now as there did not seem to be the opportunties when I was younger.

 

Reslience is a key word. The courses should give you the support to enable you to gain the resilience to get a job of there any suitable ones around. The theory is that it should help with asthma and depression. It really depends how good these people are at doing their job. The Work Programme advisors are just recruitment specialists and are a bit limited in their abilities. They are not supportive and maybe recruitment in the dog eat dog world they shouldn't be. Because the work place is sometimes not like that.

 

The WP does help 10% find jobs.

 

Good luck. You do not really want to be too ill to work. I know from past experience.

 

PS: get a second opinion from from one of the administrators or somebody experienced. I have not worked for any advisory agency and my experience is as a claimant and I do not know what happens at the DWP end.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I got my GP to sign me off sick, and then phoned up and let them know that I was now on ESA.

 

Phone your local jobcentre once you get signed off and make an appointment to get the change put through, they will need your Fit Note and they can send it to the relevant department electronically for you. Make sure you sign the sick note and then take a photocopy, you also then need to contact the council to let them know of the change so they can reassess any housing benefit or council tax reduction.

 

It took about a week for the notification to come through to me so I would advise signing off immediately after you get a JSA payment.

 

On a side note, I had an email from LinkedIn and my old adviser (who I haven't seen in over a year) was looking at my CV - I hadn't updated it in ages! It isn't the CV I did with him either as I re-wrote it once I realised I could still use a program I hadn't used in 7 years, so I now have a good income stream. I'm hoping the job I am in will become permanent, the people are lovely and the office is really close to the railway station, and there are plenty of places to go for lunch.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I went to the job centre on the 22nd for my interview after being given a jobseeker's direction to allow them to see my universal jobmatch account. The interview was not with my advisor because she wasn't in that day and was booked with someone else. The person I was booked into see put my details into the computer, read it and then gave my book to someone else, who then put my details in the computer and called me over. She asked me if I had given them permission and I replied no, which she replied 'why not' while doing an exaggerated gasp. I told her it was up to me if I wanted to give them permission and their not allowed to issue a jobseeker's direction, Which she replied well I don't know about that, I never issued it, it was your advisor. She asked for my jobsearch which I shown her written down on paper like I always do, to which I was told I need to write down everything in the booklet they give to show I'm doing 35 hours jobsearch a week. What sites I go on, what day, what time and for how long. what jobs I've gone for, how I applied, who I spoke to, etc.... Another appointment was made for 2 weeks to see who I supposed to of seen today because my advisor was fully booked

 

The next interview I had, the same thing happened again with them logging on the computer reading it then giving my book to someone else. In the end it was my advisor who saw me (I thought she was supposed to be fully booked up) she asked for my jobsearch which I shown her the paper with everything written down and she said I though you was told to write it in the booklet. She said she wants evidence next time of the jobs I've applied for (I thought that's what I've been doing and she's never said anything before in the 6 -7 months I've been seeing her) and they are going to ring up the jobs I've applied for. I have been given a jobseeker's direction for this now. It says: I will provide evidence of the jobs I apply for in order for my advisor to support me with my applications, and follow up to get some feedback on jobs I have applied for. I will bring this evidence to my appointment on.... (Which is with the same person who's supposed to have seen me twice now, but has passed me to other people after putting my details into the computer?)

 

I have also been told to go on a 3 week employability skills course which I was given a letter to go for a interview with them first (Which I had to sign for) Its got the date but they have missed out the time and my advisor never signed it, its just been left blank

Link to post
Share on other sites

To ask for evidence of job applications is not unusual - Typically, a conformation email or letter is accepted (or the rejection if you get one)... If they continue to give you grief over not allowing DWP access and refuse to accept the guidance given in the UJM Toolkit manual, I'll wade through the Decision Maker's manuals and provide you with the chapter & verse.

 

As for not stating a time on this latest "course", you need to query it as soon as possible, preferably in writing. If time is limited, then I'd suggest ringing the provider and asking them what time you are expected to attend.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

No... you can't eat my brain just yet. I need it a little while longer.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...