work programme after 2 years

[doobydoo]

Wow! That is brutal! I think that's the worst punishment I've seen so far from any Jobcentre. Do you have any more details of the "course"? Do you actually mean it will be run at the Jobcentre?

 

As I said before - IT is NOT a Punishment - It is a directive from an internal memo they received - I READ IT !!! It is STANDARD procedure for you to go in every day for the first 2 weeks and probably be put on a course.

 

I have not been put on the course yet - I have to see them tomorrow and we will discuss it - I will explain my 3 year course has come to an end and I need to study for some essential further exams before i can secure a Job myself in that field.

 

I thought I read somewhere in their blurb that if that is the case it would be unreasonable to put me on their course !

[doobydoo]

Yes in the Job centre - typical - How to get a job blah blah blah courses

[Mr K]

Yes in the Job centre - typical - How to get a job blah blah blah courses

 

And the job centre home made videos about Alan. Out of work for many years, shows you how he became a high flyer and bagged a job after his first application emptying dustbins for the NHS. If only getting a job was that easy!

[jasta11]

Strange how individual jobcentres can vary so much in their approach; at my first PWP interview, my advisor said that bringing people in too often simply didn't work and made more paperwork for the jobcentre. Surprised me quite a bit as I was expecting to be called in more times.

 

Also, when I did my normal signing today, the clerk I saw actually asked me if I'd like to show my jobsearch evidence via UJ or on paper. Normally they always push for UJ - I think they're starting to realise (at least in my jobcentre) that clients are more clued-up now on the rules and know what's allowed and what's not.

 

Regarding the earlier post of providing printouts from UJ - you don't have to. A FOI response from the DWP Central Office said;

In response to the question you have raised about requiring jobsearch evidence from Universal

Jobmatch. Advisers cannot mandate claimants to give them access to their Universal

Jobmatch account, nor can they force a claimant to print out screen prints of their UJ account.

 

Full document is here:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/169272/response/411434/attach/3/FOI%203354.pdf

The DWP is very good at playing with words; they can ASK for screen prints and the guidance can SUGGEST you give screenprints but it's entirely up to you if you want to.

[JustInterested]

As I said before - IT is NOT a Punishment

 

3 months of a full time course that will be more of the usual nonsense they try to peddle as help - by any definition that is a punishment. You have to understand that everything they do is designed to wear you down and get you to sign off benefits!

[doobydoo]

Thanks for the info jasta11

[jasta11]

The 'What Do They Know' site is very good for finding out things - people make FOI (Freedom Of Information) requests and by law these requests have to be answered (though sometimes they get round it by saying 'it's not in the public interest to reveal this information' or 'it would cost too much to gather this information'. Typical cop-outs for awkward questions.

 

However, the majority of questions are answered and the information can be used against the Work Program and the Jobcentre - the advisers don't know any of these rules so we have the advantage. Plus they come from DWP Central Office so no advisor will go against them and if they do - you report them for not following guidelines There's a whole section on the DWP and this is the one to keep checking, as new answers appear daily.

[Mr K]

3 months of a full time course that will be more of the usual nonsense they try to peddle as help - by any definition that is a punishment. You have to understand that everything they do is designed to wear you down and get you to sign off benefits!

 

I was told at my 1st interview that I could attend college for 14 hours per week. The advisor put this in my action plan that we both signed. She wants to retract that statement now and says that I must bin the college to be available for work. It's just tantamount to bullying in order to get people to sign off. She even said that as my course would lead me into signing off in a few months it was ok.

[JustInterested]

This should interest a few people:

 

A3. Claimants will not be mandated to use IADs available in Jobcentre Plus offices and

will, therefore, not be sanctioned if they refuse to use them. Use of IADs by claimants is

voluntary.

 

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/173127/response/422728/attach/html/3/FOI3884%20Gazz%20WDTK%20Reply.pdf.html

[jasta11]

That is very interesting - first they tell us that if we don't want to use our home pc's then we have to use theirs..now it seems we don't have to use theirs either.

 

I hear the quiet whirr of many printers, printing this document out Thanks for posting it.

[stilljobless]

Every Work Programme returner will also be required to register with Universal Jobmatch to aid work search and job matching. This will allow their adviser to check their work search activity online should the claimant give permission.

 

Anyone who has finished the work program (Ingeus etc) and are about to be sent to a weekly job centre advisor or already is with one I just want to point out again (as others have) that you do NOT have to use the Universal Jobmatch website and you do NOT have to give your advisor permission to view it. They can't force you to use it and you will NOT be sanctioned if you refuse..so ignore your advisors "threats" if they try to force you in to it. I hate the jobmatch site when you register is gives you a long random unmemorable number to use as your login, who the heck can remember that every time they need to login? lol whenever you use the jobmatch site you can apply for jobs without logging in and the only reason the advisor wants you to login and use the site is so they can spy on you and see which jobs you've applied for.

 

I had my first PWP appointment 3 weeks ago and the next is next week so I will see how it goes, hope I don't get put on another stupid course or have to go to job centre every day. If I have to go every day I won't have time for job search lol.

 

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Channel 4 do one of their programs where they wire up some claimants with hidden cameras and will finally show the government just how useless and a waste of money these courses really are.

[sillygirl1]

More ranting in the Daily Mail today about the feckless jobless, they really do need to change their tune!

 

I am wondering if now they realise how unworkable it actually is 'tracking' people who are jobless for the few who do flout the system they may change their minds, or rather it is another 'jobs for the young' scheme.

 

How galling is it when you see somebody screwing up an admin task that would take you five minutes when they take 20 just trying to find a document!

[doobydoo]

Reaction to the Daily Fail article on 5live on the 10-1pm show you can check it out on iplayer from about 1.30pm.

They were insinuating that job centre advisers just tell the unemployed all the loopholes so the jobless can just sign on for a laugh !

 

What a load of tosh - if only they knew the reality !!!

 

Had to turn it off - was gonna throw my DaB at the wall

 

The daily mail is for mentally ill bigots...

[sillygirl1]

One comment on the DM article said to relocate jobcentres to Eastern Europe and there would be a hundred out of a hundred accepting a job.p>

 

Ad I have frequently said 'Thete ate lies, damn lies and the Daily Mail lies...'

[sillygirl1]

sorry, not used you answering posts from mu phone yet.

[LongHairedLily]

Re: Daily Mail..

 

Now the attack on the JCP Advisors. It's called planting seeds in the minds of the public. 'Highlight' the ineffective JCP and their services, will create less resistance to when the JCP is privatised. Look how the Daily Mail has waged war on the 'failing NHS' another media whipped up hysteria for when they decide to finally privatise it. People will take the bait and say 'oh well the NHS wasn't working in its nationalised state, so private will be better'. This shower are a transparent as glass.

[Mr.P]

'oh well the NHS wasn't working in its nationalised state, so private will be better'

 

Wait until a service that everyone relies on is privatised - We've had the three main utilities privatised and for the most part, service has been adequate until a complaint needs to be resolved. The postal service will be privatised next year and within five years, the universal service will be scrapped (most likely a 3-5 day delivery, four or five days a week). Within ten years, Posties will be paid piecemeal rates and operating out of their homes much like Hermes does now.

 

Privatising the JCP would see call centres offshored to India, South Africa, or Nigeria and customer facing staff employed on zero hour contracts by the likes of G4S and A4e. The general public won't give a rat's bottom for the JCP until they have to use the "service", but they will be up in arms when Auntie's christmas card goes missing.

[doobydoo]

3 months of a full time course that will be more of the usual nonsense they try to peddle as help - by any definition that is a punishment. You have to understand that everything they do is designed to wear you down and get you to sign off benefits!

 

Turns out the course I'm on is a 2 day one - but there is a list of three different courses on the memo I saw and one of them defo says it's a 13 week one - I hope you dont have to go on all three courses !!!

[Mr K]

I have been sent a list of courses from JCP. Nothing more than the Work Programme failed to provide; CV writing, customer service, interview techniques and job search skills. All under the title of Employability skills.

 

It's printed on that dirty looking paper DWP use. Also printed in bold print that I must take part or face losing benefits. No mention of how long the course is or when they'll start peddling it. I officially enrol at college on Friday so unless it fits in with my timetable they can stuff it where the sun don't shine, they've continually ignored my requests for help and never had the funding or facilities in place. I want to retrain and enter work under my own steam - what I'm doing leads to a diploma, what they're offering just amounts to wasted time and nothing that employers will recognise at the end of it. Just like the Work programme.

[Lorise]

So was at my 2nd JCP interview today since I left the WP my advisor was ok, she asked again why I haven't give them permission to view my UJ, I told her I thought it was optional and she agreed but still tried to get me to give in (didn't) she did have a job for me to apply for I have to email them(JCP) and then they will apply for me? don't know why (came home can't find job anywhere on the internet) she also did a job search for me and like we all know there was almost nothing there a few temp jobs I mentioned I didn't want a temp job as I have a child and my last job was temporary and it was so much hassle trying to get everything sorted when the job ended, took JC 5 weeks to get my money sorted last, which with a kid and bills to pay was a nightmare, she then told me I will have to start applying for temporary jobs as if I don't the JC will look on it as me refusing work, and they can sanction me for it, in her eyes 3 weeks work is better than nothing. my JC agreement doesn't say temp work so can they make me apply?

[Mr K]

So was at my 2nd JCP interview today since I left the WP my advisor was ok, she asked again why I haven't give them permission to view my UJ, I told her I thought it was optional and she agreed but still tried to get me to give in (didn't) she did have a job for me to apply for I have to email them(JCP) and then they will apply for me? don't know why (came home can't find job anywhere on the internet) she also did a job search for me and like we all know there was almost nothing there a few temp jobs I mentioned I didn't want a temp job as I have a child and my last job was temporary and it was so much hassle trying to get everything sorted when the job ended, took JC 5 weeks to get my money sorted last, which with a kid and bills to pay was a nightmare, she then told me I will have to start applying for temporary jobs as if I don't the JC will look on it as me refusing work, and they can sanction me for it, in her eyes 3 weeks work is better than nothing. my JC agreement doesn't say temp work so can they make me apply?

 

Strictly speaking the answer should be yes although I've done the same and signed up for 6 months agency work which lasted 12 days. Then the hassles with the signing in and off

 

The Job centre are very devious in the way that they operate. They say that the two tick boxes on Universal Job-match are optional yet I've been threatened with sanctions for not allowing access.

 

If its possible attend your appointments with a witness who is willing to take notes of the meetings. They will be reluctant to allow this and will try to terminate the meeting. They tell you what you want to hear and then put the opposite on your file. Ask for a copy of the JC advisors notes and your witnesses notes and spot the difference. The advisors make good bullies and when they get you backed into a corner on your own and it becomes a case of your word against theirs. I have my third appointment on Friday, last time I visited I got threatened with sanctions for not being invited to an interview since March despite sending loads of cv's and applications. My witness took notes and this has been raised in an official complaint. I missed the next appointment which is rescheduled for Friday because they didn't send the letter and got a 4 week sanction. The manager apologised and handed me the letter in the JC. It hadn't even been posted. And the money they owe me still hasn't been paid!

 

I start college on Monday so get the feeling I'll have to sign off to avoid the headache they cause.

Edited September 2, 2013 by Mr K

[Lorise]

Well at my local JCP you can't have anyone with you unless they are school age children, if you have someone with you they have to wait outside the building for you and they certainly can't come upstairs when you go for your interview...(they have even removed the table and chairs from waiting area so you can't hang around) maybe that is why they started those rules to stop people having witnesses....

 

Also at my interview on Monday with my Advisor at the JCP when she told me I would have to start applying for temp jobs no matter how short they are or else it would be seen as refusing work, she then turned round and said if I didn't want temp work they would have to remove Retail workl from my JSA agreement as most the retail jobs are temp at this time of year, Now I have only really ever worked in Retail and did my NVQ in retail and most of my training and skills are all for retail so what do they want me to apply for if they remove that from my agreement, am I missing something or are they that dumb?

[JustInterested]

Lorise if you want to record your interviews you have that right but they must provide a private room for you to do it in so that you don't record other jobseeker's private information. You'll find they are far less bossy and give far less BS when they are being recorded!

 

And you don't have to apply for any job under 24 hours:

 

34424 of the DM guide - sanctions (http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/dmgch34.pdf)

...if a claimant refuses or fails to apply for or accept employment that is for less than 24 hours a

week, the claimant will have good cause.

 

So they can't sanction you for not accepting a job under 24 hours, assuming you have not restricted your hours of availability below 40.

[Mr.P]

Lorise: Ask your job centre what allowances they make for disabled claimants that require assistance from an attending carer, or non-native that requires a translator present. Oh well, covertly record meetings and be damned.

 

As for retail/temp jobs - If retail was removed from your JSAg, that wouldn't stop you from applying for work in that sector. You could even use it to your advantage and say "Hey, I'm looking outside my JSAg for alternative employment".

 

Temp jobs suck, but as with any vacancy, there is no guarantee that you'd get offered the job - That said, I did a temp job through an agency that ended up being full time and permanent (until the company closed down).

[LongHairedLily]

You couldn't make it up!

Rang my local JCP the in work team, to sign off at lunch. I rang some 7 times, engaed tone. I rang my advisor. She said the In Work Team wasn't manned. Could I come in, no was my reply. She said -you are signing on tomorrow, I said no I am signing OFF today. I now have to go in on Friday to physically sign off!! Whats the blinking point of the telephone number and so called in work team??? Meanwhile I cannot reg as self employed till I have signed off otherwise questions will be raised via HMRC. Blumin annoyed.