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    • Hi, despite saying you would post it up we have not seen the WS or EVRis WS. Please can you post them up.
    • Hi, Sorry its taken me so long to get round to this, i've been pretty busy today. Anyway, just a couple of things based on your observations.   Evri have not seen/read my WS (sent by post and by email) as they would have recognised the claim value is over £1000 as it includes court fees, trial fees, postage costs and interests, and there is a complete breakdown of the different costs and evidence. I'd say theres a 1% chance they read it , but in any case it won't change what they write. They refer to the claim amount that you claimed in your claim form originally, which will likely be in the same as the defence. They use a simple standard copy and paste format for WX and I've never seen it include any amount other than on the claim form but this is immaterial because it makes no difference to whether evri be liable and if so to what value which is the matter in dispute. However, I have a thinking that EVRi staff are under lots of pressure, they seem to be working up to and beyond 7pm even on fridays, and this is quite unusual so they likely save time by just copying and pasting certain lines of their defence to form their WX.   Evri accepts the parcel is lost after it entered their delivery network - again, this is in my WS and is not an issue in dispute. This is just one of their copy paste lines that they always use.   Evri mentions the £25 and £4.82 paid by Packlink - Again, had they read the WS, they would have realised this is not an issue in dispute. They probably haven't read your WS but did you account for this in your claim form?   Furthermore to the eBay Powered By Packlink T&Cs that Evri is referring to, Clauses 3b and c of the T&Cs states:  (b)   Packlink is a package dispatch search engine that acts as an intermediary between its Users and Transport Agencies. Through the Website, Users can check the prices that different Transport Agencies offer for shipments and contract with the Transport Agency that best suits their needs on-line. (c)  Each User shall then enter into its own contract with the chosen Transport Agency. Packlink does not have any control over, and disclaims all liability that may arise in contracts between a User and a Transport Agency This supports the view that once a user (i.e, myself) selects a transport agency (i.e Evri) that best suits the user's needs, the user (i.e, myself) enters into a contract with the chosen transport agency (i.e, myself). Therefore, under the T&Cs, there is a contract between myself and Evri.   This is correct but you have gone into this claim as trying to claim as a third party. I would say that you need to pick which fight you wan't to make. Either you pick the fight that you contracted directly with EVRi therefore you can apply the CRA OR you pick the fight that you are claiming as a third party contract to a contract between packlink and EVRi. Personally, I would go with the argument that you contracted directly with evri because the terms and conditions are pretty clear that the contract is formed with EVRi and so if the judge accepts this you are just applying your CR under CRA 2015, of which there has only been 2 judges I have seen who have failed to accept the argument of the CRA.   Evri cites their pre-existing agreement with Packlink and that I cannot enforce 3rd party rights under the 1999 Act. Evri has not provided a copy of this contract, and furthermore, my point above explains that the T&Cs clearly explains I have entered into a contract when i chose Evri to deliver my parcel.    This is fine, but again I would say that you should focus on claiming under the contract you have with EVRi as you entered into a direct contract with them according to packlink, as this gives less opportunites for the judge to get things wrong, also I think this is a much better legal position because you can apply your CR to it, if you dealt with a third party claim you would likely need to rely on business contract rights.   As explained in my WS, i am the non-gratuitous beneficiary as my payment for Evri's delivery service through Packlink is the sole reason for the principal contract coming into existence. I wouldn't focus this as your argument. I did think about this earlier and I think the sole focus of your claim should be that you contracted with evri and any term within their T&Cs that limits their liability is a breach of CRA. If you try to argue that the payment to packlink is the sole reason for the contract coming in between EVRI and packlink then you are essentially going against yourself since on one hand you are (And should be) arguing that you contracted directly with EVRi, but on the other hand by arguing about funding the contract between packlink and evri you are then saying that the contract is between packlink and evri not you and evri.  I think you should focus your argument that the contract is between you and evri as the packlink T&C's say.   Clearly Evri have not read by WS as the above is all clearly explained in there.   I doubt they have too, but I think their witness statement more than anything is an attempt to sort of confuse things. They reference various parts of the T&Cs within their WS and I've left some more general points on their WS below although I do think  point 3b as you have mentioned is very important because it says "Users can check the prices that different Transport Agencies offer for shipments and contract with the Transport Agency that best suits their needs on-line." which I would argue means that you contract directly with the agency. For points 9 and 10 focus on term 3c of the contract  points 15-18 are the same as points 18-21 of the defence if you look at it (as i said above its just a copy paste exercise) point 21 term 3c again point 23 is interesting - it says they are responsible for organising it but doesnt say anything about a contract  More generally for 24-29 it seems they are essentially saying you agreed to packlinks terms which means you can't have a contract with EVRI. This isnt true, you have simply agreed to the terms that expressly say your contract is formed with the ttransport agency (EVRi). They also reference that packlinks obligations are £25 but again this doesn't limit evris obligations, there is nothing that says that the transport agency isnt liable for more, it just says that packlinks limitation is set. for what its worth point 31 has no applicability because the contract hasn't been produced.   but overall I think its most important to focus on terms 3b and 3c of the contract and apply your rights as a consumer and not as a third party and use the third party as a backup   
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
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      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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MBNA reduces serious PPI complaints to a parlour game - are they behaving illegally?


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MBNA

 

I'm in the middle of a PPI claim (have been self-employed since 1995 but discovered I've been paying PPI on my credit card since I took out the card in 2003). Today, I had the most annoying letter, from MBNA, saying the following:

 

'You may recall that we recently wrote to you and requested that you complete and return a questionnaire to provide further information in relation to your PPI complaint. To date we have not received your questionnaire.

I have completed a review of the account based on the information we currently hold and am unable to uphold your complaint or issue a refund on the premiums you paid.

This is our final response to your complaint. If you remain dissatisfied you now have the right to refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman, which you must do within 6 months o the date of this letter. For more information about how to do this, please read the enclose Financial Ombudsman's leaflet. Their address is as follow:

 

[FO address]

Yours sincerely

Rachel Nixon'

 

This letter is astonishing and annoying as:

 

1) There is no telephone number to call them up about this letter.

 

2) In early-Jan, I started a PPI complaint against MNBA. I called them for some basic info and said I'd send them a filled out copy of a PPI form (which I found online via a BBC site). They said not to bother as they would fill one out for me. The inference was that this was a 'service', that they would speed up proceedings as they had all the facts and figures to hand. Stupidly, I trusted them. I actually waited around 10 days for the form to appear and all that was on it was my name and surname. No other data. So they had simply slowed the process down by ten days.

 

3) With the form was a letter, demanding that I fill out the form within 21 days, or the matter would be closed. I don't ever recall entering into a contract with MBNA saying I had to jump to their timetable. This was especially rich as they had wasted 10 days - and had, in fact, sent a follow-up letter, apologising for *their* delay in sending out necessary information. When the apology came, I assumed something else would be arriving in the post from them - it didn't.

 

4) As I was busy with work at the end of Jan, it wasn't until around the 20-day mark that I was able to get down to the form. I actually called them, first of all, for some data (the start date of my credit card contract). At that point, they had every opportunity to say the case was closed, due to some strange time limit they'd imposed without my permission. They did not.

 

5) I spent the best part of a working day looking through the questions on the form, then posted it to them.

 

6) On 23 January, I received the above letter, dated 15 January (when did post ever take that long to arrive?).

 

...I have never, in my life, come across what feels like such a blatant attempt to renege on responsibilities. This, coupled with a lack of reply address, gives me an even lower opinion of MBNA and their insurance companies. Am I within my rights to go back to them? I don't want to go to the FOS - I'm a busy person and would like a speedy resolution to this matter (I estimate MBNA owe me within the region of £4000. However, if there is no other option but to go to the FOS, is there anything I can say to the FOS about these frankly dodgy practices?

 

Brenda

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Sadly this is happening with ALL the banks.

 

You can of course reject the decision made by MBNA - if you want to do this, then I suggest you download the complaint form from the FOS website, complete it and return it to Ms Nixon and ask her to stop pussyfooting around and investigate your claim with due dligence. Perhaps head your accompanying letter with the heading OFFICIAL COMPLAINT.

 

Other than that you have 2 choices - FOS which is usually a long winded process or issuing your own claim through the courts.

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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If you read the interpretive calculations thread below sadly I think you could be in for the long haul and will be much much more angry at the end of this than when you started.

 

Your only way to get back from them what they owe is patience and a dont give up attitude. They are counting on you being busy and not putting the effort in. Its what they do.

 

FSA and FOS quite frankly need spoon feeding. They will believe the bank always over you. They are part of the establishment as is the bank.

 

I have been at this since last summer and its progressing slowly. I got the uphold as have many others. If you get the right redress is another matter entirely.

 

Hope this post isnt too negative. Just they want you to get miffed off and give up. They are upsetting you and winning. Cup of coffee time and mental note to oneself the way to get even and hurt them is by winning your claim by fair or foul.

 

You are at the start of a process that could take two years or more to resolve. They are playing on joe publics short attention span.

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http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?372400-MBNA-PPI-Award-“Interpretative”-Calculations&highlight=interpretive+calculations

 

Ken, I think you left this link out of your thread - it does indeed make for an interesting read !

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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