ET1 - and Remedy

[Richard's son]

I am back for more advice....

Partner was sacked - then offered job back after successful appeal. New terms were imposed which were totally unacceptable, so he didn't return to work there. As former employer owed lots of overtime, holiday and pension (per contract) we have submitted the ET1.

The next step is the Remedy. ACAS called partner and said this was to be done net - I had worked out everything gross before that.

So, my question is, how do I work out the net amount? Do I take the gross (which is easier to work out) and then assume that tax is charged at 20% and NI at 12%. So for every £100 gross in my numbers I show £68 (100-20-12) on the remedy?

Does this mean that the employer takes responsibility for paying the PAYE and NI contributions? I am confused and any help would be gratefully received.

Also, I always assumed that ACAS were there to make sure it was all done fairly but the CAB said it is not the case. That they want to clear as many cases as possible before going to court and they might recomend a very low figure just to get it sorted. Is it correct that we don't have to accept ACAS's deal and that we still have the choice of going to court?

[becky2585]

I am back for more advice....

Partner was sacked - then offered job back after successful appeal. New terms were imposed which were totally unacceptable, so he didn't return to work there. As former employer owed lots of overtime, holiday and pension (per contract) we have submitted the ET1.

The next step is the Remedy. ACAS called partner and said this was to be done net - I had worked out everything gross before that.

So, my question is, how do I work out the net amount? Do I take the gross (which is easier to work out) and then assume that tax is charged at 20% and NI at 12%. So for every £100 gross in my numbers I show £68 (100-20-12) on the remedy?

Does this mean that the employer takes responsibility for paying the PAYE and NI contributions? I am confused and any help would be gratefully received.

Also, I always assumed that ACAS were there to make sure it was all done fairly but the CAB said it is not the case. That they want to clear as many cases as possible before going to court and they might recomend a very low figure just to get it sorted. Is it correct that we don't have to accept ACAS's deal and that we still have the choice of going to court?

 

Hello

 

What are the claims being brought? To work out the amount for a schedule of loss, it's usually easiest to pull the net and gross figures from the last few months' payslips.

 

You don't have to accept any offer put through ACAS - but be aware that any verbal agreement made through them is legally binding!

[Richard's son]

Thank you for your reply - especially the warning about ACAS. I had assumed that you had to accept what they recommended. My partner will now be very careful what he says (assuming they get involved).

 

I have managed to pull together the numbers for the remedy. I can't see the sense of doing them net though as they are "earnings" and therefore subject to tax, so I am doing two columns labelled net and gross. Makes me feel better if nothing else!

 

Where I am struggling now is how to write the remedy. Do I just have a list of items and the amounts relating to them and a total at the bottom? I know to label all pages with the Case Number and their names.

There are two seperate issues. One is breach of contract (employer failed to make any pension contributions although it is in contract).

The other is constructive dismissal because the boss only offered him his job back with different terms (which meant a pay cut). These terms have not been imposed on former workmates although letter of reinstatement said they were to be across the board.

Is there an example of how to write remedies somewhere? Or could somebody help me? Do I write a paragraph saying that we are seeking payment of pension contributions, unpaid overtime hours and unpaid holiday plus the basic award, compensatory award and future loss. Then put the numbers afterwards?

Feeling quite a bit confused and it has to be submitted tomorrow!

 

Thanks

[becky2585]

It would be worth googling for a template.

 

The way the legal world would do it would be in a table with two columns.

 

The first section is details - ie, gross weekly pay, net weekly pay, start date, date of termination, claimants date of birth or age at the date of termination.

 

The second section would be for constructive dismissal and is broken down into a basic award (the equivalent of a statutory redundancy payment), loss of earnings compensation (number of weeks to hearing x net weekly pay), notice pay (net) and loss of statutory rights (which I currently claim at £700, but I've yet to test this in tribunal!).

 

The last section you can calculate the breach of contract/unlawful deductions from wages into pension contributions, unpaid holiday and overtime.

 

Then put the sub total and if the case is appropriate for an uplift for failing to follow the ACAS code, eg if a grievance was raised but not answered, I'd add a 25% uplift, then the final total at the bottom.

[Richard's son]

We received the ET3 back from the tribunal people.

I know I am nit-picking but does it matter that the first page we received, the one that starts with section 1, has no case number filled in at the top. The box is left empty. The case number does appear later where they have typed up a few seperate sheets saying "Grounds of Resistance"

 

I thought that if the forms were not filled in that they were bounced?

 

Can anybody advise me?

[Skinnered]

Is not Form ET3 the one sent by the tribunal, when they have accepted youe claim, to your employer or ex employer to fill in?

 

If the rest of the form is already filled in then this this will be a copy to you for your information

[Richard's son]

Is not Form ET3 the one sent by the tribunal, when they have accepted youe claim, to your employer or ex employer to fill in?

 

If the rest of the form is already filled in then this this will be a copy to you for your information

Thanks for your reply, however, I am not sure how to answer the question.

We sent ET1

Not sure what an ET2

is

Et3 was completed by the employers solicitor. The respondent. It was the official form, filled in by hand. And as mentioned before, where the case number box is has not been completed.

We received a copy of the form both from the solicitor and the tribunal.

Do we have grounds to get it rejected?

[Skinnered]

1. You sent ET1 laying out your case.

 

2. Whatever ET2 is is not relevant here.

 

3. ET3 is the form where the respondent sets his stall out, giving his side of the story and his objections to your story.

 

When your ET1 was accepted by the tribunal they sent a copy to your employer along with form ET3 for them to complete. On completion they are obliged to send it back to the tribunal. They are also obliged to send you a copy along with copies of any other documentation that they may want to use at the hearing. You are also obliged to let them have copies of any documents that you may wish to rely on at the hearing.

 

The idea is to compare what they have said in the copy they sent you with the copy the tribunal sent you and with your version and then prepare yourself to counter their version at the hearing.

 

Whether or not a case number is missing from a page is hardly going to swing the case either way. If the tribunal accept it I'm not sure why you should bother about it unduly.

[Richard's son]

My partner is going to an employment tribunal. Please can somebody clarify the timetable for me?

 

It says at 10 weeks

>

Does this mean that we can include new witness statements that were NOT sent to be included at the file that the respondent was meant to prepare at eight weeks? Or does it mean that we use the statements that the respondent already knows about and has put in the file?

If it means that we prepare new statements, then is this what the witness stands up and reads at the tribunal? So it should be written in their words rather that lawyer-speak?

Also, am I right in thinking that the file for the tribunal can only include bits relating to what was written in the ET1, ET3 and Grounds of Resistance and that the Respondent can't introduce new issues that have never been mentioned not even in disciplinarys or anywhere else?

Many thanks

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

Does this relate to your previous threads please? It may help the guys to have the information together, I'll let them say if it would be good to have the threads merged.

 

My best, HB

[Richard's son]

Hi Honeybee

 

Yes it does relate to the previous thread........the process all seems to take so looong. I tried to add it to the previous thread and it wouldn't let me. I tried to reply on this thread last night and it looked like it had worked but the message wasn't there this morning.

 

Any clarification on my problem that you can offer would be really appreciated.

 

Thanks

[honeybee13]

Thank you for that, I'll see if I can merge your threads. I expect the forum guys will be along later.

 

HB

[Pusillanimous]

My partne

 

It says at 10 weeks

>

Does this mean that we can include new witness statements that were NOT sent to be included at the file that the respondent was meant to prepare at eight weeks? Or does it mean that we use the statements that the respondent already knows about and has put in the file?

If it means that we prepare new statements, then is this what the witness stands up and reads at the tribunal? So it should be written in their words rather that lawyer-speak?

Also, am I right in thinking that the file for the tribunal can only include bits relating to what was written in the ET1, ET3 and Grounds of Resistance and that the Respondent can't introduce new issues that have never been mentioned not even in disciplinarys or anywhere else?

Many thanks

 

The tribunal won't bar a witness statement just because it was not sent in time for the deadline. Theoretically, you do not need to sign the witness statement until the day of the hearing. However, once you have signed it, you need to produce an additional amendment should you wish to change anything, as the original will still stand, but with the amendment added.

 

You can write anything you like in your witness statement. However, unless you want to annoy the tribunal, you should stick to issues relating to the documents in your bundle. Don't include anything that's not backed up by evidence (the bundle). Use headers, but keep it chronological and in objective language.

[becky2585]

My partner is going to an employment tribunal. Please can somebody clarify the timetable for me?

 

It says at 10 weeks

>

Does this mean that we can include new witness statements that were NOT sent to be included at the file that the respondent was meant to prepare at eight weeks? Or does it mean that we use the statements that the respondent already knows about and has put in the file?

If it means that we prepare new statements, then is this what the witness stands up and reads at the tribunal? So it should be written in their words rather that lawyer-speak?

Also, am I right in thinking that the file for the tribunal can only include bits relating to what was written in the ET1, ET3 and Grounds of Resistance and that the Respondent can't introduce new issues that have never been mentioned not even in disciplinarys or anywhere else?

Many thanks

 

Hello

 

Your understanding is not quite correct.

 

The Bundle is WRITTEN and DOCUMENTARY evidence, and is not a statement. If it has statements contained in it, they are completely separate to the issue of witness evidence.

 

Your witness statement is the basis of your ORAL evidence and is supplementary to the evidence in the bundle. The Bundle isn't just for the ET1, ET3 etc, but must contain a full list of anything which either party wishes to rely on, or which adversely affects or supports their case. Witness statement s can refer to the bundle - but all evidence needs to be in your statement. You MUST put down everything you want to rely on in there. It's wise to do it in chronological order, refer to the bundle where appropriate, and put down your opinion and memories of events where there is no evidence in the bundle (the Tribubal will then listen to both parties version of events and will make a finding of fact as to what happened).

 

In short, if its not in your ET1, the Bundle, or your witness statement - you won't be able to introduce it as evidence on the day.

[Richard's son]

Thank you for the response. I am finding the stress of the situation isn't helping my understanding (I am not thick really!)

 

So, we have statements from witnesses and they get put into the bundle which should be done at 8 weeks by the respondent.

Then the respondent and my partner (claimant) write their statements at 10 weeks.

Nobody else gets to write another statement at 10 weeks, just the two of us?

 

One more question please.

The respondent's solicitor has sent us some new information in an attempt to discredit my partner. He says he is guilty of theft, not from his employer but a third party. Having been to the police station no theft has been reported. It is not anything that he's ever mentioned before and was not in the disciplinary hearings, the appeal, the ET1, ET3 or the remedy. He's pretty much saying either back down and tell ACAS that you are pulling out or we will bring this to the tribunal. (He is also threatening civil action for this if we don't back down).

My partner is of the opinion that the court won't allow totally new evidence unrelated to anything that has already been mentioned.

I am concerned that the court WILL allow it and that we should quickly get our responses together and sent to the respondent's solicitor in time to go in the bundle.

Which of us is correct please?

I would leave it until next week when partner is going to see a solicitor but he can't get an appointment before the stuff would need to be back at the respondent's solicitor.

 

Thanks again

[becky2585]

Now in confused - has the tribunal ordered exchange of witness statements twice?...

 

Was the evidence they're using to discredit your partner available and taken into account at the point of dismissal, or after?

[Richard's son]

Hi Becky

 

Thanks for your response - and I am confused also (not helped by a bottle of wine!)

 

The quote that I included came from the letter from the court. I don't think they have asked for statements from third party witnesses twice, but I am not sure. I can't get my head round whether they are saying that the third party statements go in the bundle and at the point when my partner writes his witness statement (10 weeks) that we only do his and the respondent's statements not any extras but I wanted to be sure I had not misunderstood.

 

My partner's ex boss has discovered evidence AFTER submitting the ET3 and sent it to us last week. They say they intend to add it to the bundle. Ignoring the fact that it is twaddle I guess I want to know if they can include it? In all honesty, if the evidence is true (its rubbish in my books) then its a matter for an ordinary court but it would be for a third party to take him not his ex boss if that makes sense.

 

They have also asked the tribunal to lengthen the time for the hearing. Their letter was sent a while ago, we had the answer from the court which was 'no'. But they have gone back to the court claiming their letter went AWOL which it didn't, because we have an answer to it from the court.

 

Personally, I think, that because we are not using a solicitor they are trying to scare us into submission. They started with breach of contract allegation and we said 'I don't think so'. And now they are saying theft is involved - again, they have no evidence. I can only assume they think they won't win at the tribunal because their deductions were unlawful, they have breached the data protection act (we have been to the ICO and await a reply,) and more importantly THEY breached the contract first.

 

I hate tribunals.........but the CAB have been wonderful and will get a donation out of anything my partner gets back via the tribunal.........its just that getting appointments can be hard.