Joint executors - who has the power to instruct solicitors?

[cleaver]

Hi, I know a little about insolvent estates and intestate, but nothing about this subject.

 

Myself and my sister are named as joint executors of our father's estate and are the only beneficiaries.

 

I haven't spoken to my sister for many years and don't wish to do so in the future.

 

Father is in poor health aged 89 and he insists that he will not change his directions.

 

So when the day comes following his death (hopefully not for many years to come) what powers do we have. Yes I know how the whole thing works but the problem I have is that my sister would want a solicitor to handle the estate, whereas I, due to the family breakdown, would want to cause her as much difficulty and cost as I can.

 

I will not accept any solicitor being appointed by her - can she over rule me and appoint one in her right as the joint executor?

 

Personally as far as I am concerned I don't want any of my father's money (estate will be net worth in excess of £500,000). On the other hand I want to make it as difficult and as costly as I can for her to have her half share.

 

What can happen if the estate is never wound up because of my actions - can anybody else forcibly intervene?

 

Ideally, I would be more than happy for the State to take ownership of the estate until an agreement is reached between us which will be never!

[steampowered]

This is a bad idea. You would be in clear breach of your duties as executor. Your sister (or one of the other beneficiaries) would be forced to make an application to court. Most likely they would make an application under s50 Administration of Justice Act 1985 for you to be removed as executor and your sister appointed as sole executor instead.

 

You would certainly cause delay. But you would be the only person left out of pocket. The court would simply order you to pay all the legal costs involved in the court application, which could easily be in the tens of thousands, plus compensation and interest to the beneficiaries for the delay.

 

I don't know what your particular circumstances are, but I am genuinely sad to hear that your relationship with your sister has deteriorated like this. I hope that at some point in the future you guys can patch things up, especially as this is what your father wants. If you do not feel that you can discharge the legal duties of an executor, then when your father dies you should decline the appointment.

[fletch70]

I totally agree with steampowered. You are under no obligation to take on the role of executor but if you try to delay things the only people who will gain are solicitors and the only person to lose will be you.

Please please try to make things up as life is far too short. Holding that much anger and bitterness is destructive. I can vouch for that. It has taken me nearly 40 years and while i can not fully forgive that person i am at peace with it now and have forgiven her to a great extent.

[cleaver]

This is a bad idea. You would be in clear breach of your duties as executor. Your sister (or one of the other beneficiaries) would be forced to make an application to court. Most likely they would make an application under s50 Administration of Justice Act 1985 for you to be removed as executor and your sister appointed as sole executor instead.

 

You would certainly cause delay. But you would be the only person left out of pocket. The court would simply order you to pay all the legal costs involved in the court application, which could easily be in the tens of thousands, plus compensation and interest to the beneficiaries for the delay.

 

I don't know what your particular circumstances are, but I am genuinely sad to hear that your relationship with your sister has deteriorated like this. I hope that at some point in the future you guys can patch things up, especially as this is what your father wants. If you do not feel that you can discharge the legal duties of an executor, then when your father dies you should decline the appointment.

 

Thank you for the information.

There are only two beneficiaries, myself and my sister.

 

I understand that she could apply to to be the sole executor and that the costs etc including my costs of defending the action would be bourne by myself. I have no problem with that, that would be her intention from the start, she has made that clear already via her solicitor to my solicitor.

 

Obviously that would cause a huge dent in the half that I would be entitled to.

 

I can't stop her appointing her own solicitor to act for her in her own personal capacity as executor, nor can she stop me doing the same - that has already been agreed what will happen.

 

So as I see it, it would be quite easy for me to run up a considerable debt that hopefully will wipe out my half - £250,000.

 

As for her half, she will have to fund her own solicitor and be half responsible for any solicitor that she appoints to deal with the estate.

 

That seems to be the way forward and is what my solicitor has already told me.

Personally I was looking for a way that would ensure that her half was sufficiently depleted as well. Delay is one thing, but what will really annoy her is if she sees her inheritance being swallowed up in legal costs as well.

 

Hopefully I have a few years to sort out the best way forward to make that happen.

 

My relationship with my sister became impossible following the death of our mother in 2003. i have no intention in even wanting to meet her or talk to her. We currently communicate with each other through our own solicitors. If I can cause her as much delay and loss the better it is for me.

 

If it was at all possible for the entire estate to be taken to cover legal costs, I would throw a party!

 

Thanks for your input.

[cleaver]

I totally agree with steampowered. You are under no obligation to take on the role of executor but if you try to delay things the only people who will gain are solicitors and the only person to lose will be you.

Please please try to make things up as life is far too short. Holding that much anger and bitterness is destructive. I can vouch for that. It has taken me nearly 40 years and while i can not fully forgive that person i am at peace with it now and have forgiven her to a great extent.

 

Thanks

 

I would be more than pleased if the legal costs exceeded the value of the estate.

 

Unfortunately, I am not the type to forgive and forget. Even my wife tells me that she can't understand how I can hold grudges for decades. Once someone upsets me or crosses me that is the end - family or not.

 

Even now I still plan retribution towards people that 'turned me over' back in the early 90's! Without that anger and bitterness I am nothing, the thought that people be allowed to get away with things without suffering consequences is what drives me forward every day.

[The Mould]

Your intended action to interfere with the proper administration of your father's Estate would leave you personally liable for any costs incurred, your father's Estate would not bear such costs arising from such unreasonable conduct of an Executor.

 

The Mould

[steampowered]

Obviously that would cause a huge dent in the half that I would be entitled to.

 

I can't stop her appointing her own solicitor to act for her in her own personal capacity as executor, nor can she stop me doing the same - that has already been agreed what will happen.

 

So as I see it, it would be quite easy for me to run up a considerable debt that hopefully will wipe out my half - £250,000.

 

Please do not let your hate for your sister blind you to the reality of the situation. You are never going to be able to force your sister to spend her entire share of the estate on legal costs.

 

£250,000 is the kind of legal fees you would see in a multi-week commercial trial for millions of pounds involving hundreds of boxes of paperwork and tens of witnesses. It is not what you would expect from a straightforward section 50 application. The courts actively manage proceedings to keep costs proportionate to the amount at stake, it simply will not allow you to drag out the proceedings.

 

Being an exectuor is not that complicated. If you start playing silly buggers it will be obvious to everyone involved. The court will simply grant a section 50 application and remove you as executor without too much fuss. The costs would probably be 10k or 20k at most, which would be deducted from your share of the estate and that would be the end of it. You are living in a fantasy land if you think you can force your sister to blow the entire estate on lawyers, the court simply will not permit this.

 

In any event, you might struggle to find a solicitor willing to embark on this course of action. Bringing vexatious proceedings with no legitimate purpose other than to harass and harm another person is a breach of the Solicitor's Code of Conduct and would expose them to disciplinary action by the Solicitors Regulation Authority.

 

You seem to assume that your liability is limited to your £250,000 share of the estate. This is wrong. Costs will be ordered against you personally. In the unlikely event that your sister's costs exceed your £250,000 share of the estate then your personal assets would be at risk. Your sister could then ask the court to grant an order giving her control of your bank account, make you bankrupt, send round bailiffs, or get a charging order and ultimately order for sale against your house.

 

My relationship with my sister became impossible following the death of our mother in 2003. i have no intention in even wanting to meet her or talk to her. We currently communicate with each other through our own solicitors. If I can cause her as much delay and loss the better it is for me.

 

I think this is really sad. At the end of the day, she is still your sister. Even if you don't want to talk to her, just move on your with life. The only person you will hurt by acting like this is yourself: you will end up thousands of pounds out of pocket, you will be the one hurting your father and by acting in some a vengeful way you will hurt yourself more than you hurt her. I can only hope that time will heal the wounds. If you cannot stand dealing with her then simply do not accept the appointment as executor, or simply appoint a solicitor and let them deal with it.

 

Rather than spending money on solicitors I recommend spending it on a counsellor.

[fletch70]

I do actually agree about spending the money on a counsellor. There is a danger of you becoming a sad bitter lonely old man. I am sorry if this sounds harsh. Life really is too short to spend it on being bitter. Hate is such a destructive emotion.

[cleaver]

Your intended action to interfere with the proper administration of your father's Estate would leave you personally liable for any costs incurred, your father's Estate would not bear such costs arising from such unreasonable conduct of an Executor.

 

The Mould

 

Yes I understand that, the costs would be deducted from the £250,000 that I would be entitled to under his will? Money that I don't want.

Edited February 21, 2013 by cleaver

[The Mould]

Costs include your costs as well as any costs that your intended action would cause to your sister. If you undertake your proposed course of action, your sister will not suffer, you would be removed quite quickly by Order of the Court.

 

In my opinion, you are a nasty and cold hearted person, your posts here making reference as to revenge clearly reflect this. I can hardly believe that any woman would want to hook up with a "Banker Rhymes with W" like you.

 

The Mould

[cleaver]

Ummm, there doesn't seem a way then of forcing my sister to lose all or part of her inheritance with the way I am thinking. Obviously I will have to think of another way round this problem.

 

To be honest, i don't particularly care what she could do to me, it would be such a pleasure if I could do something that would cause her sufficient grief - her only interest in life is money and what she can do with it! Me, I'll be just be as happy with my wife and dog living in a bedsit on benefits with nothing just as long as she doesn't get much out of the deal and it all goes in legal fees.

 

But I thank you for the advice and pointers given.

[AndyOrch]

Cleaver

 

If you do not wish to benefit from your Fathers estate then simply donate your inheritance to a worthy charity...... don't try to frustrate the process to get at your Sister.Your intentions would simply not be entertained by the legal profession to conduct vexatious litigation because of a feud.

 

End Of...I will close this thread shortly unless some positive attitude is instilled.

 

Andy

[The Mould]

Cleaver

 

If you do not wish to benefit from your Fathers estate then simply donate your inheritance to a worthy charity...... don't try to frustrate the process to get at your Sister.Your intentions would simply not be entertained by the legal profession to conduct vexatious litigation because of a feud.

 

End Of...I will close this thread shortly unless some positive attitude is instilled.

 

Andy

 

Good idea Andy

 

This thread is clearly no doing any justice for the Group, the sooner you close it the better.

 

Kind regards

 

The Mould

[cleaver]

Costs include your costs as well as any costs that your intended action would cause to your sister. If you undertake your proposed course of action, your sister will not suffer, you would be removed quite quickly by Order of the Court.

 

In my opinion, you are a nasty and cold hearted person, your posts here making reference as to revenge clearly reflect this. I can hardly believe that any woman would want to hook up with a "Banker Rhymes with W" like you.

 

The Mould

 

I don't know how you could say that, you have no idea what has gone on for the past 40 years and in particular over the past 10 years. As I have said I would pay the whole £250,000 to a solicitor if it meant that it would cause enough grief to my sister.

 

Oh yes it is revenge.

 

Put it this way, if you believed and knew that for years people, including family had systematically caused problems in your own family, have taken large amounts of money from you and were so vexatious and devious that they committed perjury which resulted in you being sent to prison, I doubt whether you would be so forgiving! Yes I came out a broken man, having lost all faith in everyone. I approached all concerned and wanted to know why - which resulted in another prison term.

 

Coming out and finding that no one had told you that your mum had died, and that all of her personal and valuable belongings had been removed 'and no one knew who did it'? Then being told by my niece that her mother, my sister had everything and had disposed of it. It left my father a destroyed man - he begged my sister to hand back mum's wedding and engagement rings which she refused saying that they had been sold.

[The Mould]

As regards accepting your position to Executors office underyour father’s Will, I would advise you to seek proper independent professionaladvice and/or purchase a copy of Williams, Mortimer and Sunnucks- Executors,Administrators and Probate Nineteenth Edition (or indeed the Twentieth Editionis out now - £275), either will provide you with a great understanding of thisarea of law because, based upon the material set out here by you, it appearsthat your present nominated agent has no understanding or perhaps, rather noregard for the same.

Your GP may be able to give you a prescription to try andhelp you as regards your dark revenge tendencies.

The Mould

[cleaver]

As regards accepting your position to Executors office underyour father’s Will, I would advise you to seek proper independent professionaladvice and/or purchase a copy of Williams, Mortimer and Sunnucks- Executors,Administrators and Probate Nineteenth Edition (or indeed the Twentieth Editionis out now - £275), either will provide you with a great understanding of thisarea of law because, based upon the material set out here by you, it appearsthat your present nominated agent has no understanding or perhaps, rather noregard for the same.

Your GP may be able to give you a prescription to try andhelp you as regards your dark revenge tendencies.

The Mould

 

Thank you for that info. I don't need to see the GP regarding medication, I am already a patient of the local CMHT and do already take anti phys drugs that they have prescribed.

If I didn't take them, I dread to think what I am capable of.

[AndyOrch]

This thread seems have gone full circle and has reached its natural conclusion. With thanks to everyone who have contributed, it is now closed.

 

Regards

 

Andy