barred from supermarket ...

[NSC]

i guess it depends on whether one believe that they should have taken reasonable steps before reaching their decision. i know you'll say they don't have to. but this is where i think this is wrong. and as such, perhaps it should be challenged. that's the only way legal matters progress. if no one ever challenged anything nothing would ever change, for better or worse.

[renegadeimp]

Not really. They can simply claim the harassment angle. It has nothing to do with any disability, unless that disability is something like autism or OCD where you need a routine, or things not to change like going to the same shop regularly.

[NSC]

there was no harassment and asperger's syndrome and PDD-NOS are both ASDs (autism spectrum disorders).

[renegadeimp]

So you are claiming that those disorders caused the harassment? You need to remember, the shop didnt ban you for your disability. Unless you cna prove beyond doubt that your disability contributed to your actions and so the shop banned you, then you wont get anyway. Plus from your original info here, it has nothing to do with the disability anyway.

 

I think you should just let it go now. Give them a few weeks and theyll probably have forgotten all about you.

[NSC]

i'm saying that i regularly get treated badly by people because they rely on NVC and they misinterpret mine. it's nothing to do with how i behave and everythng to do with how the interpret body language, etc.

 

and no, they won't have forgotten about this in a few weeks time. i'm very confident of that. the person i knew will still be working there.

[renegadeimp]

Well, good luck, but if you go down the disability route, then youll most likely end up with guaranteed harassment case against you, and in the worst case scenario, a restraining order from the store.

[scotgal68]

As you don't pick up on non-verbal communication is it even remotely possible you might've misconstrued the relationship you had with the check out girl? Is she perhaps younger and slightly naive? Maybe she was being polite and the only way she could stop you giving her attention was by telling her manager?

It's maddening for you to be barred but if you've had no reply from your letters, then any further communication from

yourself will just reinforce their opinion that you're obsessive and therefore capable of harrassment.

Sorry but I think I'd put it down to experience and take my business elsewhere x

[NSC]

As you don't pick up on non-verbal communication is it even remotely possible you might've misconstrued the relationship you had with the check out girl?

i go by what people say to me. if they say things like "i'll miss you, don't forget me" and "come to me, i'll look after you", i would have personally thought that she liked me. as i've said i really thought we were friends. this all came out of a clear blue sky. i was really quite shocked. but i have to consider whether my medical condition has had something to do with it. i don't honestly know. it's just a possibility.

 

Is she perhaps younger and slightly naive?

yes she is younger than me. and perhaps younger means more naive too. but i didn't think so at the time.

 

 

Maybe she was being polite and the only way she could stop you giving her attention was by telling her manager?

candidly, i find this hard to believe. how hard is it to say, 'i'd rather not see you anymore', especially given what she'd previously told me??? the last conversation we had, i'd have said, was perfectly normal. for exavple, i often give her fruit to try as i eat a lot of fruit for medical reasons. and she told me that she liked the last kind of fruit i gave her. if she didn't like me, why would she eat the fruit??? i'd don't know. none of this makes any sense to me. i candidly think the supermarket may have treatened to sack her if she continued our friendship. but i'm only guessing here.

 

It's maddening for you to be barred but if you've had no reply from your letters, then any further communication from yourself will just reinforce their opinion that you're obsessive and therefore capable of harrassment.

i don't see why i should be denied an explanation for this supermarkets actions just because they can interpret things as it suites them to do. i want a coherent explanation not all these chinese whispers. i don't think that's being obsessive. and i don't think it indicates anything regarding potential harassment either. i still intend to write to their head office.

 

Sorry but I think I'd put it down to experience and take my business elsewhere x

i am shopping elsewhere. and i may not go back even if they did reverse ths bar. i think they've demonstrated their ability to be completely unreasonable. but that doesn't mean i want to accept being unreasonably restricted in my movements. for example, i have a physical disability and used to use their disabled toilet. that i no longer an option for me. and i used to meet another friend in their in store cafe. and use their photo booth too. there area lot of faciliies i can no longer use. it's not just about buying food.

[porkyp1g]

Dude, maybe she eat the fruit or said she did, to be polite. Maybe she was sending you signals that she wasn't interested but you didn't pick up on them due to your aspergers. Maybe she didn't even eat the fruit but said she did.

 

Just shop online or shop elsewhere like you are, leave it and move on. Life's too short to worry about things, that in the grand scheme, don't really matter. You're dietary and financial needs can't be that great as you said you might not go back even if they let you.

[NSC]

if people don't tell me the truth, that ought to be their problem not mine. and i said i mightn't go back because i'm still livid!!!

[stu007]

Hi

 

IMO we need to seperate any medical condition the OP has from this why:

 

Did the individual on the checkout or the supermarket know of these medical issues?

 

Im sorry but I can see where the OP is coming form to a certain extent but I would not try to fight this with the supermarket on medical or discrimination grounds.

 

i.e. you have been shopping in your regular supermarkent for some years you know all the staff they always chat to you and are friendly as you would expect in a good chain, then one day one of the staff is in a bad mood you give your usual greeting to the staff member they give their usual response no differernt to any other day. Then just because they had a bad day at the end of there shift report to line manager that you are harassing them.

 

The first you know about this is then recieving a letter from the stores head office banning you from the store with no option to defend yourself against these allegations thats it your banned from the store all because a staff member had a bad day.

 

Something else we need to bear in mind especially as its been suggested about reading body language is that not everyone is the same and can read body language a specific way unless you are specifically trained in that profession, now I am not saying people are wrong but each individual reads body language in different ways.

 

I still feel that this supermarket could have handled this matter much more better.

 

Could I just ask the OP were you ever approched by the staff and either asked or politely told your attention was unwelcome?

 

Did the individual accept the gift and then after there shift finished report the harassment or was this reported immediatley?

Edited February 22, 2013 by stu007

[NSC]

Im sorry but I can see where the OP is coming form to a certain extent but I would not try to fight this with the supermarket on medical or discrimination grounds.

let me assure you that i'm not currently thinking seriously of doing this. but it is potentially an interesting scenario.

 

and i've covered these questions already but i'll do it again, as this thread is getting quite long now. please forgive any minor inconsitencies that might arise.

 

Could I just ask the OP were you ever approched by the staff and either asked or politely told your attention was unwelcome?

i approached a member of staff about an unrelated matter. it was only then that they told me that the christmas present i'd give this chreck-out girl allegedly had been interpretted as too romantic and that this had caused her to complain to her management. i'm not really inclined to entirely believe this. i gave her a similar christmas present 2 years ago. no complaint then, i assume. i don't want to be too specific, but it might be helpful if i stated that both were CDs of music that i like and thought she might too.

 

Did the individual accept the gift and then after there shift finished report the harassment or was this reported immediatley?

this whole episode only really kicked off about a month after christmas. there was certainly no immediate reaction. when i asked her if she had liked the CD, she told me she hadn't had time to play it. perhaps that explains the delay. but i'm just guessing here.

 

i'll say this again. i genuinely thought we were friends. i've no idea why she couldn't have just said something to me rather than going to her management about this. if she'd just told me she didn't want to see me anymore i'd have respected her wishes. i never forced my attentions on her in any way. i just reciprocated her friendliness towards me. and in all our written communications i've always signed them 'very best wishes'. i can't think that's too romantic!!!

[steampowered]

In your first post you told us that the relationship was purely platonic and you simply gave her a relationship at Christmas. It now turns out that you were giving her presents on multiple different occasions, and that you were having conversations in which you discussed things like "i'll miss you, don't forget me" and "come back to me, I'll look after you". It sounds to me like these conversations had sexual undertones.

 

Sorry, but it sounds to me like your behaviour was inappropriate. I do not think it is appropriate to start giving gifts to a young checkout girl in a supermarket when you are much older than her. Giving a Christmas gift is pushing it and giving gifts on multiple different occasions is a no-no. I also think it is inappropriate to have conversations with sexual undertones.

 

I know you didn't intend to do anything bad, but your behaviour sounds quite intimidating for a young checkout assistant. She could have just told you she was feeling uncomfortable, but she is young and naive so it is understandable that she went to her manager. The ban is harsh but I think it can be justified, the supermarket has a duty of care to its staff and even though you meant no harm the manager still has reasons to be concerned. I think you will just have to shop elsewhere in future and please do be careful how you treat young female members of staff.

Edited February 23, 2013 by steampowered

[NSC]

In your first post you told us that the relationship was purely platonic and you simply gave her a relationship at Christmas. It now turns out that you were giving her presents on multiple different occasions, and that you were having conversations in which you discussed things like "i'll miss you, don't forget me" and "come back to me, I'll look after you". It sounds to me like these conversations had sexual undertones.

i gave her a christmas present last christmas and the christmas 2 years prior to that. i've known her for well over 2 years and i was i'll the christmas 1 year prior to that with severe depression, so i couldn't give her a christmas present that year. and these were her words to me. and no i didn't take them as having any sexual undertones. she was very kind to me and that's the only reason i liked her and was willing to be friends with her. but people will always try to make more of things than is justified. and the accusations i've had thrown at me in this thread are not getting any better!!!

 

Sorry, but it sounds to me like your behaviour was inappropriate. I do not think it is appropriate to start giving gifts to a young checkout girl in a supermarket when you are much older than her. Giving a Christmas gift is pushing it and giving gifts on multiple different occasions is a no-no. I also think it is inappropriate to have conversations with sexual undertones.

well, that's your opinion. and as far as i'm concerned, a very misguided one too. when i was working i had lots of friends. but i lost all of them when i got wrongly dismissed. partly because i no longer live in that area and partly because my employer warned them off too. this check-out girl is 1 of only 2 friends i've made in the past 7 years. if there's a law against being a bit lonely, please let me know? otherwise, try not to jump to conclusions, especially ones that might be considered derogatory.

 

I know you didn't intend to do anything bad, but your behaviour sounds quite intimidating for a young checkout assistant. She could have just told you she was feeling uncomfortable, but she is young and naive so it is understandable that she went to her manager. The ban is harsh but I think it can be justified, the supermarket has a duty of care to its staff and even though you meant no harm the manager still has reasons to be concerned. I think you will just have to shop elsewhere in future and please do be careful how you treat young female members of staff.

again, you're jumping to conclusions. she would tell me when she was working so i could look for her and she would tell me that she enjoyed our conversations too. so, apart from the odd christmas present, all we ever did was talk to each other about the kind of things that anyone would talk to their friends about. candidly, i feel so traumatised by all of this that i no longer even make small talk with people. if you get slammed for being friendly perhaps it's better being unfriendly.

 

on a completely unrelated incident, a few years ago i was in town when i was approached by a school girl. she said she'd lost her purse and didn't have any money to get home. she wanted 20p for her bus fair. i gave her £1, just to be sure she had enough. and she went on her way. i don't even remember if she said thank you, she was in quite a hurry to get home. i've not seen her since and doubt i'd recognise her if i did. but this matter with the supermarket has made me wonder whether i'd bother doing the same again or just tell her that she wasn't my responsibility and to make her own way home and leave me alone!!! i take it that's the kind of world you're advocating here.

 

anyway, i think i've had enough of being doubted and slandered. if anyone has anything positive to contribute, fine. but i think this has been done to death now.

Edited February 23, 2013 by NSC

[steampowered]

Hi,

 

It is not my intention to slate you and I'm sorry if it came across like that. I know this must be a rotten situation for you. My point is that giving gifts to a young checkout girl could be seen as inappropriate, even if that was not your intention. I have to say that comments such as "i'll miss you, don't forget me" do sound to me like they have sexual undertones, although I don't know the full story.

 

I do not want to speculate as to what went wrong, why the girl spoke to her manager or why the manager called the police because I do not know the full background (and indeed when she is making comments like "don't forget me" I suspect there is much I do not know). It sounds this girl may well have her own problems and may have exaggurated things when speaking to her manager.

 

I'm not trying to advocate a world in which everyone is nasty to each other, and I really hope you can find some sort of local society or hobby which helps you become less lonely. As unfortunate as it is, people do have stereotypes about older guys dealing with young women.

Edited February 23, 2013 by steampowered

[assisted blonde]

At the end of the day this is a girl who works in a supermarket she is paid to be poite to people she is not your friend, you shouldnt have given her gifts its not appropriate,I appreciate that you may have a lack of friends but there are other ways to meet people not when you are doing your shopping. For whatever reason you have been barred, shop elsewhere, stop dwelling on this, it may be that you made her uncomfortable and sh ethought this was the best way of dealing with it, seriously forget it. you said that you lost friends when you lost your job (unfairly) well if they were real friend and not just aquaintances they would have kept in touch. This may sound harsh but you have a choice either get over it and get on with things or dwell on it and become obsessed. The general concensus of opinion seems to be that you did behave inappropriatly, the store could have handled it better but they are within their rights to bar you, and the store do not wish to enter into any dilogue with you. You can keep going on about how angry you are or you can move on the choice is yours, but I dont think there is much more anyone can say, certainly not anything that you would like to hear.

[renegadeimp]

well if they were real friend and not just aquaintances they would have kept in touch

 

I cant agree with this enough. I had a job in 1999 and left in 2001. The job was 70 miles from where i live now, but the people i worked with, we all still meet up twice a month and go for a good night out. Theres only one of us out of the group of 7 that is still in that same job.

[NSC]

The general concensus of opinion seems to be that you did behave inappropriatly.

my mother used to give chocolates to the receptionists at her GP surgery at christmas. i suppose that was inappropriate too. or are you just being sexist??? candidly, i think there are a lot of really sick people in the world. they want to control every aspect of our lives. and i, for one, refuse to be manipulated by them. i did absolutely nothing wrong. but if you think i did then you clearly have no idea of how these people are destroying the fabric of society. the concepts of truth, justice and fredom have very largely been completely subverted by large corporations and those that act in supporting their vested interests. and you would no doubt suppot that just because you can't see beyond your own indoctrination. in summary, thanks for all the well meaning and not so well meaning advice but i'm done here.

[BazzaS]

in summary, thanks for all the well meaning and not so well meaning advice but i'm done here.

 

I wonder why "people who are going to get offended when they get advice other than that which is exactly what they want to hear" don't put a caveat on their original post.

 

That way people who want to offer advice, freely and at no cost, can do so and can target that advice where it might be of use.

 

For the people who don't actually want advice but are instead actually looking for validation : no need to waste time on advice that may be unwelcome - one can either move on past or 'cut & paste' a standardised post along the lines if "Yes, you are so right, no one dare disagree"

 

Sorted.

 

Sadly, some OP's will lack the insight to realise they actually want the latter when their OP requests the former.

[Mike_hawk]

Bazza, whilst i'm sure you mean well you havent grasped the content of the thread.

 

I didn't post prior to the op leaving as i could see where it was leading.

 

The op suffers from aspergers and related autistic tendency. Its not limiting per se but if you've seen it first hand you'd appreciate how unforgiving the effects can be.

 

Lack of understanding of the world around him is but one condition. I've read the posts a few times and he really just wants an answer which we can't give him. Why do people say one thing but do another........ the whole concept is lost on him, no grey areas... just yes or no, black or white, like or dislike.

 

Don't take it personally, the op really doesn't grasp it and possibly never will.

[BazzaS]

Bazza, whilst i'm sure you mean well you havent grasped the content of the thread.

 

I didn't post prior to the op leaving as i could see where it was leading.

 

The op suffers from aspergers and related autistic tendency. Its not limiting per se but if you've seen it first hand you'd appreciate how unforgiving the effects can be.

 

Lack of understanding of the world around him is but one condition. I've read the posts a few times and he really just wants an answer which we can't give him. Why do people say one thing but do another........ the whole concept is lost on him, no grey areas... just yes or no, black or white, like or dislike.

 

Don't take it personally, the op really doesn't grasp it and possibly never will.

 

I agree he doesn't grasp it, but clearly he understands the autistic spectrum disorders, which Asperger's falls within.

He is also "high functioning" enough to have posted that he understands that the world around him may not change for him.

 

So, the OP may not innately understand that people might say one thing and mean another, but that won't prevent him from "learning" a "rule to apply" to such a situation, and he clearly has learnt some of these already ...

 

Whilst things remain "black or white" to him, he can use "I've been given a way to logically analyse how to classify that person's emotional response" : it'll not be intuitive, it might require "hang on, do I need to try and work this one out : I don't know nor understand why they might be saying one thing and mean another, but I've learnt it does happen, and I have logical rules to try and work out if this is one of those times".

 

Naturally, this "use of rules" applies to those towards the opposite end of the ASD spectrum to full blown autism : such as those people with Aspergers who it might occur to to post on an advice website ...... I doubt someone with autism (rather than Asperger's) would be posting on an interactive website.

 

Whilst I don't take the OP's responses personally, funnily enough, where you say "when you've seen it first hand" might be taken to mean "I have seen it first hand and you haven't", which IS kind of personal .....

 

However, I have seen it first hand.

 

I've also seen it first hand when autism was recognised, but the ASD's weren't recognised .... You either had autism or you didn't, and if you didn't there was no 'label' of Asperger's, but your relative with Asperger's instead got 'labelled' as an "odd child" or "just anti-social".

 

I also recall when the concept of Asperger's was first widely discussed in the UK in the Times Educational supplement, although Temple Grandin was known in the USA before that.

 

I recall one chap who had details of his Asperger's published in the TES who had married : he and his wife have even published a book about their "Asperger's marriage".

PART (and it is just one small part) of their success in having a marriage where convention dictated that "couldn't happen" is the provision of such "rules" for "when you realise you don't understand the response, see if it fits into this rule (or 'that rule') to classify it".

 

So, my reply wouldn't likely impact someone with Asperger's more towards the autism side of the scale, but might be "black and white" (and blunt) enough to still be part of a "rule" applied by someone on the opposite end of the ASD scale to autism .... such as someone who understands their condition enough to post "there is a real world out there. and this is what happens in the real world. live with it or die from it - it's not going to change any time soon!!!"

Edited February 24, 2013 by BazzaS

[anangadevidasi]

The only thing that comes to mind and we should all consider is as cold and hard as it might be then shop elsewhere. I have been on the end of something similar but with a friend of my husband and he would give me flowers, cards if I seemed the least bit upset and it really creeped me out! Even though I have known him I wondered if he was getting romantic attachements or feelings, and that was purely wrong. Our relationshiop was based on friendship and it had boundary's attached that should not be crossed.

 

You must of really gave the girl cause for concern for her to report the incident and the Supermarket must of felt that there was some kind of threat warranted enough for them to warn you off. My hubby god love him did not see my point of view that his mate was creeping me out he thaught nievely it was sweet of him and I should be grateful for the gifts.....But, uh oh, no the line has to be drawn somewhere and instead of levying your resentment and frustration at the Supermarket then put yourself in that lady's shoes, and I don't know the case personally but can tell you based on how I felt that is this....She felt you where getting attached or too friendly and that you where persuing her or she was afraid you would not leave her alone....It took all my strength and might to get my hubby to see my point of view and warn his friend off! Now the guy looks at me from a distance and is sheepish around me...I don't care as long as he get's my signals I am giving him every time we meet....Back off pal, your attention is unwaranted and unwanted. Go creep someone else out! And he gets it. You should be thinking how the girl feels in this instance.

 

PS. The 'friend' of my husband does have mental health issues and whilst allowances where made in the beginning for that then this has to stop and the lines drawn so he can understand and learn. He has tried this sort of thing in the past and did come unstuck but this time it is a lot closer to home, especially with the friendship and he being my husbands God brother. People no matter whom or what they suffer should be treated the same as everyone else. PC brigade or not. I felt really uncomfortable and it put a great strain on me and my husband as I would not go to functions or be any where near this person. Even after being told by my hubby to stay away and give me space, no gifts or flowers he did approach me and I told him to sod-off in the most strongest terms I could express. Thank God he got the message.

Edited March 17, 2013 by anangadevidasi
For an 'Addendum' to make a point more clear