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    • Firstly, you don't need to worry about the so-called "six-month rule". The consumer rights act simply complements the existing law contract. It adds to it, it clarifies it – but it doesn't take anything away from it. Not only that, even within the consumer rights act, the most important provision is that the goods you buy are of satisfactory quality and that they conform to their description. If you have bought a vehicle expecting it to be low mileage – only 17,000 and in fact the mileage turns out to be double – 34,000, then I would say that it is not of satisfactory quality. Also, it doesn't conform to its description. It is impossible that this vehicle could be repaired in order to return it to its expected satisfactory condition because you can't undo the mileage don't wear and tear. Furthermore it doesn't conform to its description and nobody will be able to undo that either. On that basis it seems to me that this is what is known as a fundamental breach of contract – which is a breach so serious that it essentially undermines the purpose of the contract – and it amounts to a termination by the seller and it is up to you the innocent party to accept the termination and to consider that the contract is at an end. This then gives you the right to recover all of the losses which you have reasonably incurred as a result of the seller's breach of contract. You have bought this vehicle using finance – and I'm assuming that it is alone and under section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act, the finance company are fully liable to you in exactly the same way that the supplier is liable. In other words, their financial liability to you are mirror images of each other. You say that you are in "the process" of rejecting the car. I don't understand what process there is. You simply write to the supplier – copy it to the finance company – and tell them that the contract is at an end because they have breached it in a very serious way and you want to know what arrangements are being made for returning the car. I think that you should also point out that in the interim period you will be without a vehicle and that it would be in their interests to provide you with a loan vehicle until such time as you can source a replacement. Frankly, if you trust the supplier – and if the supplier behaves in a responsible way, this may be the time to negotiate a new vehicle from the supplier – and no doubt this time they will be far more careful about what they supply you. I think it will be worth pointing out to the supplier that if he will not provide you with a reasonable loan vehicle that you will incur costs in respect of a hire vehicle or some other arrangement and that you will look to them to reimburse you all of these expenses. Once again, you should send a copy of this to the finance company. Separately you should write directly to the finance company and put them on notice as well that the finance agreement is at an end because of the fundamental breach of their client. Because they are a finance company, don't expect them to be especially cooperative so I would tell them immediately that if there is any hint of a lack of cooperation that you will begin an immediate complaint to the FOS – but you may decide to proceed direct to a county court if you feel you have to. Have you contacted anybody about this? We could all be jumping the gun because maybe you haven't even brought it to the attention of the dealer and you don't know what the dealer's attitude is. In all letters, make sure that you copy the letters to the garage to the finance company and those to the finance company copy to the garage – so everybody knows the extent of the trouble you are making about this. Finally, why haven't you told us the name of the garage? Are you trying to protect them? What is the name of the finance company? Are you trying to protect them?
    • I have also read a few threads on CAG and also MSE and there is one conflic of opnions which does worry me a little which is the ignore or appeal...   Ignore until they get to a stage where I have to respond or appeal and not let any claim forms come throug the post and cause unnecesarry stress as my wife is the RK of the car.   I trust your judgement on here as your advice has always been clear and confident but i thoguht I would still ask at what point is ignoring these both, going to do us harm with a CCJ or something?   Thanks again   Gee
    • they only get one bite at the cherry    did you ring the court?   dx  
    • images/posts removed . please do not post jpg picture images directly to a post . read upload and redact in jpg then convert using on of the listed websites there to convert to one multipage pdf only . that way only logged-in,registered and approved caggers are the only ones that can download and see them . else anyone can see them caggers or not. dx
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Hentooth

Council obtaining illegal Liability orders?

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Hi,

 

I could do with a bit of advice about councils and liability orders.

 

Basically my local council last September recalculated my council tax and it went from me owing £40 to owing nearly £1000, which being on a low income I had no chance of paying by april.

 

I got the usual summons letter in November and attended the court, to find them not is session, in fact we had to go to the basement and talk to a council employee, for which we where charged £100

 

I had turned up with all the paperwork I felt I needed for my day in court, so asked the council lady when we would see the magistrate. She told me that I would only see the magistrate if I disputed the amount. I them made it very clear that I did dispute the amount and that I wanted to defend this in court.

 

She then insisted we make a payment agreement, which we didn't want to do, but she said we couldn't progress unless we did.

 

Before leaving I asked again when we would see the magistrate, and was told I would get a letter in a few days.

 

A few days later we did get a letter with the words "As you are aware we have obtained a liability order".

 

So they never gave me a chance to defend my corner.

 

Since then December I became unemployed so the council tax was recalculated to £38.85, which we where very happy about, until 3 weeks ago we got a letter from a bailiff company chasing £319.

 

I have emailed the council several times, but they keep avoiding answering my question as to why I didn't get a chance to defend myself in court and avoiding the fact that I keep asking for it to go back to court.

 

Was this a infringement of my rights? Surely I should have been given the chance to defend myself?

 

Thanks for reading

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It is the big council con and every council is on to it as i gets them thousands of pounds

 

They hire a room in the court it is just a rubber stamping exercise for what cost the council less than £5

There is no defense unless you do not owe it the council make there own rules up

 

You are doing right writing to them perhaps marking it formal complaint and follow it up with a letter in the post may get a result

Deal directly with the council not bailiffs


If i have helped in any way hit my star.

any advice given is based on experience and learnt from this site :-)

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Don't worry the bailiffs will be wasting their time!

 

Has anyone else on here had the £100 summons letter and did you try to defend yourself?

 

I am also refusing to pay the outstanding balance of £28.85 so that they HAVE to take me back to court even if it's for committal proceedings, at least then I get the chance to defend myself

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Hi,

 

I could do with a bit of advice about councils and liability orders.

 

Basically my local council last September recalculated my council tax and it went from me owing £40 to owing nearly £1000, which being on a low income I had no chance of paying by april.

 

I got the usual summons letter in November and attended the court, to find them not is session, in fact we had to go to the basement and talk to a council employee, for which we where charged £100

 

I had turned up with all the paperwork I felt I needed for my day in court, so asked the council lady when we would see the magistrate. She told me that I would only see the magistrate if I disputed the amount. I them made it very clear that I did dispute the amount and that I wanted to defend this in court.

 

She then insisted we make a payment agreement, which we didn't want to do, but she said we couldn't progress unless we did.

 

Before leaving I asked again when we would see the magistrate, and was told I would get a letter in a few days.

 

A few days later we did get a letter with the words "As you are aware we have obtained a liability order".

 

So they never gave me a chance to defend my corner.

 

Since then December I became unemployed so the council tax was recalculated to £38.85, which we where very happy about, until 3 weeks ago we got a letter from a bailiff company chasing £319.

 

I have emailed the council several times, but they keep avoiding answering my question as to why I didn't get a chance to defend myself in court and avoiding the fact that I keep asking for it to go back to court.

 

Was this a infringement of my rights? Surely I should have been given the chance to defend myself?

 

Thanks for reading

 

I would ask to be sent a copy of the liability order..

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hentooth

councils do have an option to apply to quash, or substitute (eg for a lesser amount), an LO under s82 Local Govt act 2003,

and also under common law an LO can be challenged re 'set aside'. eg

http://z2k.org/2013/01/liability-ord...strates-court/

http://www.greenhalghkerr.com/articl...bility-orders/

Edited by Ford

IMO

:-):rant:

 

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ps, as IHB points out, there is no 'hearing' as such, just rubber stamping. and turning up for an 'hearing' seems to put a spanner in the works of the machine which they can't seem to be able to deal with, as your experience points out.

Edited by Ford

IMO

:-):rant:

 

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I thought I'd let you guys know the latest.

 

Me and the council have come to an agreement, they have reduced the amount I have to pay and have taken it back from the Bailiff company. I have agreed to pay £3.55 per week, which I can live with.

 

The way I managed to swing this in the end is I complained to the Chief Executive and also got my MP involved.

 

The council claimed to have left me a voice mail giving me a hearing date, but the only voice mail I had from them was "call to discuss my council tax". I did point out that it would have been better to have followed this up with a letter or email.. I have actually had a lot of problems with my voice mail including getting a womans voice mail instead of mine (and her calls) for 2 days and for 2 weeks the mail box was corrupted and my network provider had to delete it and make a new one.

 

But I'm happy enough with the outcome, I don't object to paying council tax, on the whole my local council actually do a good job, it was their collection methods I didn't agree with.

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amount reduced, affordable payment arrangement, no enforcement. you're happy. sounds like a fair result :) sometimes, it pays to complain. (not surprising though given that you were seemingly denied the opp to represent yourself at their 'hearing' :) )


IMO

:-):rant:

 

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The council claimed to have left me a voice mail giving me a hearing date, /QUOTE]

 

How very professional of the council NOT

 

in general most councils do a good job but they let themselves badly in many areas as you found out

 

good result:-)


If i have helped in any way hit my star.

any advice given is based on experience and learnt from this site :-)

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If there is no hearing as such, who then issues the council tax liability orders ?

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as posted, mags 'rubber stamp' ie yes owed, councils then send out letter saying have an LO. you're looking for a paper/hard copy of one. as previously advised elsewhere, there isn't one as such. no point relying on that. there's no 'hearing' as such if not disputed. if someone disputes liability following a summons, then they should go and insist that the mags hear them. but, as hentooths eg points out, such attempt may prove unsuccessful on the day. which would be a denial of a right to fair hearing (ie as mentioned, no wonder council later acceded here)

btw, hentooth, ooi, did they substitute the LO for that lower amount under s82?

Edited by Ford

IMO

:-):rant:

 

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A right to a fair hearing, human rights issue ?

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yes, human rights act an eg. but, where someone had received their summons :) and didn't attend/dispute liability, then no recourse there.

Edited by Ford

IMO

:-):rant:

 

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The wording of the latest letter I have received from the council states the following. At council tax hearings, liability orders ate applied for and granted for in bulk, as per a list provided by the council. Therefore there is not a copy of an order specifically relating to you, which I can send. That's interesting. Liability orders are granted in bulk, yet charge each individual £95.00 in court costs. Sounds a good racket to Me..

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Sounds like a case for the Fraud Act 2006, well they always loose in the European court cases if they are ever taken there/


:mad2::-x:jaw::sad:

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Sounds like a case for the Fraud Act 2006, well they always loose in the European court cases if they are ever taken there/

 

I think its fraud. I don't know how they are getting away with it..

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I think its fraud. I don't know how they are getting away with it..

 

 

 

Big Brother comes to mind.


:mad2::-x:jaw::sad:

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..... That's interesting. Liability orders are granted in bulk, yet charge each individual £95.00 in court costs. Sounds a good racket to Me..

 

as hentooth said!

I got the usual summons letter in November and attended the court, to find them not is session, in fact we had to go to the basement and talk to a council employee, for which we where charged £100

IMO

:-):rant:

 

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