Minicredit !

[fletch70]

I only ask because every time this comes up i get a different answer. Dx has told me one thing, you say another,someone else says something different and the cras say something else .

[renegadeimp]

Cras dont have a say so unless the imformation is incorrect. THey just report the details they are given.

[fletch70]

Sorry still confused. You say they can not just do it but plainly they do. That makes the information wrong so the cra should not report it. Sure as hello discredit will not remove it.

 

So what is the next move?

[renegadeimp]

The cra's only enter info provided by the relevant creditor. They have no way of knowing if it is genuine or not. Thats why all complaints go through the creditor, unless theres an obvious failing on the CRA's side such as http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?379534-Death-Threat-on-Noddle-Report where it is obvious that the CRA could have done something.

[fletch70]

Been reading up again and it seems that in most pre contract info there is stuff about reporting to the cras and also a letter giving you 28 days notice is more than enough. No need for a S87 default notice prior to reporting.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

That is what they do renegade and when you challenge the cra they say that they have given you enough notice etc.

 

You don't challenge the CRA it is the data controller of the company placing the disputed agency that must be contacted!!

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Sorry still confused. You say they can not just do it but plainly they do. That makes the information wrong so the cra should not report it. Sure as hello discredit will not remove it.

 

So what is the next move?

 

The CRA has no knowledge of the validity of the data, the data subject must contact the data controller of the company placing a default and place a notice of dispute on entries made on ALL CRAs reporting the data.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Sorry still confused. You say they can not just do it but plainly they do. That makes the information wrong so the cra should not report it. Sure as hello discredit will not remove it.

 

So what is the next move?

 

Renegadeimp is correct CRAs cannot unilaterally amend or remove data, the opinion/permission of the originator is needed.

[fletch70]

I don't think i ever said that cras could. However on the credit files it does say that if you think it is wrong you should contact them.

 

The whole conversation started because it was said that minicredit have sent letters saying pay up or we will register a default on x date. Renegade says they can not do that.

However it appears they can.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

The creditor can in fact plece an entry on the file but it must be accurate, and upto date if it is not then it will breach the DPA, eg if the account has not been properly defaulted through due process the to place an entry on CRA file would not be accurate data.

 

Thye threat of placing a default with no itention of doing so through due process, would breach sections of the OFT Guidance as well at the ICO tech guidance on defaults.

[fletch70]

And still no one can or will say what is due process.

However it seems to me that due process is any of:

Including in the precontract information that defaults can be reported to the CRA

A DN subject to S87(1) of the CCA

A notice of intent to file a default giving 28 days notice.

The ICO guidance explains what is considered default i.e when a relationship has broken down.

 

 

Would you agree? If not why not.

[pat1421]

Minicredit sent me that letter with 28 days notice of placing default on my file with CRAs and they will whatever a due procedure is.

Can anyone advise what are the legal grounds to say that I owe original loan and one month interest only after defaulting PDLoan?

[fletch70]

Morning

To the best of my knowledge there is no legal grounds for that but should they keep adding on the fees that they do they would struggle in a defended claim.

 

They will not,or so far i do not know of anyone who has got, give out their bank details and will want your card.

All i can suggest is in every response you stick to your offer of full and final sum of x spread over however many months you need.

[pat1421]

I sent a complaint to OFT cc Minicredit. I got a reply from Kristel:

 

Dear Mr xxx,

 

*

 

Your Complaint has been referred to me according to the Formal Complaints Procedure.

*

I apologize for the delay in answering your e-mail but I took time to process the previous correspondence between you and Microcredit Ltd.

*

Microcredit Ltd issued a loan of 300 to you on the 30th of November 2012 for a period of 24 days. The due date was chosen by yourself to be on the 24th of December 2012 in the amount of £372.

 

*

 

Shortly after the loan was issued you authorized the debt management company Harrington Brooks to set up payment arrangements with creditors on your behalf. The cause of the financial difficulties was over-commitment on credit. When did you realized that you are not able to make payments to the creditors?

 

*

 

The first time you made any contact with us regarding the outstanding balance was on the 16th of January 2013 when you visited the FAQ section on your MiniCredit.co.uk secure online account. On the 21st of January 2013 the debt management company Harrington Brooks sent out the letter to us which we received on the 6th of February 2013. The account was prepared to be sent to our debt recovery and legal partners in the beginning of March 2013 as Microcredit Ltd deals with debt management agencies only through our debt recovery partners. The creditor has the right to use third parties in order to set up payment arrangements with Customers or debt management companies.

 

*

 

Your first e-mail was sent to us on the 15th of February 2013 where you requested a payment arrangement and also disputed the charges. Due to your complaint the account was not allocated and will remain with us until the complaint is resolved or loan defaulted on the 120th overdue day.

 

*

 

I have searched the document regarding your income and expenditure, but seems that neither Harrington Brooks not you have provided it to us. The Hardship form was activated on your online account on the 20th of February 2013, so please follow the Hardship Procedure in order to request any payment arrangements. Please fill in the hardship form and provide supportive documentation to prove that Your financial difficulties were unforeseen and unpredictable at the time of applying for a loan with us. Payment plans are provided to Customers who follow through the Hardship Procedure. Microcredit Ltd has the right to ask Customers the reasons behind the financial difficulties and may request to have the income and expenditure along with the list of creditors provided for assessment of the payment arrangement application.

 

The OFT Debt Collection Guidelines provides the following information:

 

3.9 Examples of unfair or improper practices are as follows:

 

(i) using the CPA other than as set out in the credit agreement or without the informed consent of the debtor or a relevant third party

 

For example:

 

• debiting a higher amount than agreed, or adding default fees or other *sums unless specifically agreed – We have specifically provided the information regarding fees and charges in the loan agreement.

 

• debiting a lesser amount than agreed, unless it was specifically agreed that this could be done if the full amount was not available (or under a repayment plan) – We have specifically provided the information regarding debit attempts in the loan agreement.

 

• debiting an account before the due date for repayment (as specified in or under the credit agreement) – Microcredit Ltd has provided Customers to make payments before the due date and do not debit payments before the due date withouth your request

 

• debiting the account after the due date on a date, or within a period, or with a frequency, other than as specifically agreed - We have specifically provided the information regarding the frequency of the debit attempts in the loan agreement.

 

• debiting the account of a third party other than as specifically agreed with the third party or with the debtor acting with the consent of the third party – Microcredit Ltd debits payments using CPA only with the debit card the Customer has registered as his/her own.

 

*

 

In the OFT's view, creditors should consider reducing or stopping interest and charges where a borrower evidences that he is in financial difficulty and is unable to meet repayments as they fall due or when he can only make ‘token’ repayments such that his level of debt would continue to increase if interest and charges continue to be applied.

 

*

 

Considering that in the OFT’s view the creditor should consider reducing or stopping interest and charges, we do it when the Customer faces unforeseen financial difficulties occurred by circumstances non-dependent of the Customer’s actions and could not have been prevented by the Customer. Such as sudden severe health issue suffered by the Customer or member of household who contributes to the household income jointly and severally with the Customer, loss of employment where the Employer fails to comply with legal requirements providing the redundancy notice, death in the family and etc.

 

*

 

The OFT Debt Collection Guidance states that the Creditor should be open for discussing payment arrangement when the Customer is experiencing financial difficulties. The Creditor should be fair and reasonable when offering a payment arrangement for a Customer in financial difficulties.

 

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What do the terms fair and reasonable mean?

 

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The Customer whose financial difficulties were caused by an unavoidable and unforeseen circumstance should be in favour over the Customer to whom the non-repayment was known at the time of taking out the loan or the cause of the financial difficulties was over-commitment. Depending on the cause of the difficulties the creditor should consider suspending or amending charges and interest, but regardless of the cause should not demand payments that are more than the debtor can afford. The Creditor has the right to require supportive documentation regarding the cause of the financial difficulties to determine the time of the change and whether the cause was unforeseen or not. The reasonable payment arrangement can be set up only when the Customer provides documentation regarding the monthly income and expenditure. As per the OFT guidance we should not set up an arrangement where the Customer will be unable to pay for the basic needs due to the payment instalment amount.

 

*

 

I would also like to point out that the loan agreement is a legally binding document where you have agreed to the consequences of the non-repayment. We have received the following information previously from the Financial Ombudsman Service:

 

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The application of interest and charges by a lender is a commercial decision for a business to make, and it is not for the Financial Ombudsman Service to comment on whether or not the charges are unfair.

 

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In investigating disputes of this nature, we must look toward the terms and conditions of the specific agreement to decide whether or not the interest and charges have been applied in line with them.

 

*

 

When an individual encounters financial difficulties, there is no obligation on any lender to make amendments to the terms and conditions of the agreement- such as reducing interest or charges. However we would expect a lender to take a positive approach to the circumstances such as providing the possibility to enter into a repayment plan.

 

*

 

In order to come to a solution that is mutually agreed, please provide us with the hardship form as soon as possible. As the loan has been overdue for the past 78 days without any payments made according to the payments methods in the loan agreement, we also need to take this into consideration.

 

*

 

I hope to receive your reply soon.

 

*

 

*

 

Kind regards,

 

*

 

Kristel Martinson

 

MiniCredit.co.uk

 

Head of Customer Support

 

and Claims Department

 

 

0871 890 3015

Fax 020 71382919

http://www.minicredit.co.uk

[email protected]

 

 

Am I on the right track here? Is it

better if my account stays with Minicredit as they say or better if passed to their OPOS?

I dont want to provide my details via their Hardship form, I will just send them a shortened I&E with no documents. Should I ask them to take me to court now as the loan stands at 1080 pounds today for original 300?

I will keep fighting with them but

they will default my file with CRAs.

Any advice. Can I take them to court myself for not accepting payments from my DMP, not accepting repayment plan from myself, not enabling me to repay the loan and making it unaffordable to repay by adding charges?

[fletch70]

You have done well to get such a comprehensive response even if most of it is evasive designed to mislead. From what i have heard letting it go to opos is good in that you will get an arrangement.

These charges, although some may appear in the contract, aren't. again in my opinion legal. They are unfair oppressive and out of all proportion.

I think you taking them to court is a non starter and providing you keep up a dialogue they are unlikely to take you to court. You could of course make a full and final offer.

 

Do not tell them when your difficulties started unless there is an event after the loan date that caused it such as loss of job or sickness.

The most i would give is the most basic of basic income and expenditure although i personally think two fingers is a better approach but that depends on your circumstances.

[pat1421]

Thanks Fletch.

I will reply to Kristel making full and final offer but also want to point out some nonsense from their replies. Is there any law or legal act that would supercede their loan agreement regarding payment methods they only accept? I want to point out the fact I made two payments to them through my DMP but they dont accept it and say I didnt make any payments. They just quote the loan agreement that payments only to be made by a debit card and thats what I signed. Refusal to accept my payments by them would be something to present in a court if I just could base it on some proper relevant legislation.

I am not sure about opos but I think I cant ask them now to pass it to opos as this would be going off the track, hmm not sure what they are up to by keeping my account.

And Fletch what do you mean by

Two fingers is a better approach.

[pat1421]

My situation didnt change. I just ended up in that circle of payday loans borrowing each month more and more so I had to stop it. Now I have 11 loans to pay back and it will take some time but its just matter of time.

I dont want to tell this to Minicredit because they will accuse me of fraud of course.

I am doing a lot of overtime at work now so dont have much time to learn all legal stuff I should but anyway I will deal with Minicredit as they are a major problem.

Any advice will be always helpful.

Now in spare time I will fill out the FOS complaint form and send it. Also OFT sent me a form to fill so have to do this as well.

[pat1421]

I am telling you guys Txtloan are brilliant, other PDL companies more or less ok so far but I cant understand why OFT allows Minicredit to trade provided that OFT must have received a lot of complaints about their practices.

What Minicredit legally does to his customers is unacceptable and no authority can stop a legal loan shark - unbelievable.

[fletch70]

Two finger approach is more a kind of f off approach. Because i am bloody minded i would make the offer with a like it or lump it attitude

As for legislation Google oft guidelines on debt collection OFT 664(REV) . Although only guidelines it is how they are expected to behave.

They might accuse you of fraud, they did me, but haven't backed it up.

I think cputr 2008 might also help. That stops unfair practises. Why not pm renegadeimp and ask him to look in on the thread.

[pat1421]

I made a complaint to OFT and gave witness statement over the phone. At least Minicredit corrected their actions regarding CPA cancellation but with a long

delay. They removed some 50 pounds of charges.

This is what I got from them:

 

Dear xxx

 

*

 

Thank you for the reply!

 

*

 

Microcredit Ltd dealt with debt management companies through our legal and debt recovery partners. The OFT Debt Collection Guidance states that the company should deal with appointed third parties, but does not state that the Creditor is not allowed to appoint a third party to deal with the debt management companies on behalf of the Creditor. The information from Harrington Brooks was received on the 6th of February 2013, but due to your complaint the account was put on hold and not sent to our debt recovery and legal partner in the beginning of March 2013 for further payment arrangements.

 

*

 

Regarding not accepting cheque payments I would like to advise you that the preferred method of payment is explained in your loan agreement. The Creditor should provide an alternative payment method to a debtor who is unable to use the agreed and preferred method, but the alternative can be chosen by the Creditor in condition that it is available to most debtors. We have provided all of our Customer the possibility to make payments via Ukash if debit card cannot be used. The authorized third party has to also follow the loan agreement you have accepted. Please read more about the agreed payment method from the loan agreement.

 

*

 

You are refusing to provide documentation regarding the cause of the financial difficulties. Without the correctly formatted budget sheet and list of creditors, we are not able to consider the financial difficulties to prevent making the full repayment. The Creditor does have the right to request such documentation when the Customer asks for a payment plan over a longer period of time. The Creditor should also consider suspending or amending overdue charges when reasonable. Without proof of your financial difficulties, we are not able to provide a decrease of the balance. From the short budget information I can see that your income has even increased since taking out the loan on 30/11/2012. Please provide the list of creditors to see how many unsecured loans and when have you applied. Considering the information we have already received from you and the fact that you have 11 creditors, which is a considerably too many, I consider a possibility of over-commitment on credit where loans were taken out knowingly that a payment plan will become necessary.

 

*

 

It seems to me that you have read some of the points I raised in my e-mail selectively. As per the OFT guidance we should not set up an arrangement where the Customer will be unable to pay for the basic needs due to the payment instalment amount. This means that after the debtor has provided the Creditor with the budget sheet and list of financial obligations (secured and unsecured), the Creditor will assess the expenses according to the Common Financial Statement – Endorsed by Money Advice Liaison Group (MALG). If the expenses do not exceed the trigger figures provided in the Common Financial Statement, the Creditor will calculate the monthly instalment considering the disposable income and other Creditors.

 

*

 

Regarding not freezing your balance, I would like to provide you the information we have received from the Financial Ombudsman Service when they have assessed complaints of this nature:

 

The application of interest and charges by a lender is a commercial decision for a business to make, and it is not for the Financial Ombudsman Service to comment on whether or not the charges are unfair.

 

*

 

In investigating disputes of this nature, we must look toward the terms and conditions of the specific agreement to decide whether or not the interest and charges have been applied in line with them.

 

*

 

When an individual encounters financial difficulties, there is no obligation on any lender to make amendments to the terms and conditions of the agreement- such as reducing interest or charges. However we would expect a lender to take a positive approach to the circumstances such as providing the possibility to enter into a repayment plan.

 

*

 

The balance will keep on increasing according to the loan agreement until a proper assessment of your financial situation can be concluded using the documentation requested above.

 

*

 

The charges and interest were mutually agreed on the 16th of May 2011 at 11.06am. The loan agreement clearly states the following regarding the charges and interest:

 

KEY INFORMATION

 

If you break this Agreement, we will charge you if we unsuccessfully attempt to obtain repayment on

 

the due date for repayment. A fee of £25 will be charged on the day that your missed payment was

 

due. If we unsuccessfully attempt to obtain repayment on the due date, we will attempt to obtain

 

repayment a second time 2 days later, and if we unsuccessfully attempt to obtain repayment on this

 

second occasion we will charge you a further amount of £55. If we unsuccessfully attempt to obtain

 

repayment we may charge up to £3.

 

*

 

Interest on any sum in arrears will be charged at the contractual rate, both before and after judgment,

 

until payment. Also, you must pay us all other reasonable costs and expenses we incur (including

 

any legal costs on a full indemnity basis) in tracing you, or enforcing, or attempting to enforce, our

 

rights under this Agreement.

 

*

 

Repayment, Default and Recovery

 

8. You agree to make all payments to us under this Agreement at the proper time. We will collect

 

payments by debiting your bank account using the debit card details you have registered with us up

 

to three times per day. You authorise us to debit your bank account to collect payments due under

 

this Agreement. If we are unsuccessful in collecting payment, we may try to debit your bank account

 

again at a later stage until we have successfully collected payment. If you have provided us with

 

details of a second debit card and we are unsuccessful in collecting payment from the first debit card,

 

you authorise us to seek payment via the second debit card in the same way as you authorise us to

 

seek payment via the first debit card. You must give us new valid debit card details when you cancel,

 

lose or your debit card(s) registered with us become(s) invalid when you have unpaid loan with us.

 

*

 

The automated debit attempts have been stopped and the debit attempt fees added after the 4th of March 2013 when the Notice of the Cancellation of CPA arrived have been waived.

 

*

 

Please confirm the cause of your financial difficulties and if it was anything unforeseen and not over-commitment, please provide supportive documentation.

 

*

 

Kind regards,

 

*They keep asking for hardship form. I gave them a shortened I&E form. Should I give them full details on their hardship form and details of all the creditors?

Has anyone gone through their hardship thing? What was the outcome?

[fletch70]

Sorry it is full of their usual stuff. They can not dictate how you pay. If they stopped the loan going to opos that is their problem not yours. Again you do not have to provide their hardship form although of course they can ask..

I am not sure of the best way forward as i do not know your finances,credit history etc.

Overcommitment is not a crime but i think they are trying to get you to admit you knew you couldn't repay when you took the loan out. That way they can scare you by shouting fraud.

[renegadeimp]

If they say fraud or even suggest it, you MUST report them to the oft. They are under investigation by the oft and have 10 weeks to change their ways or be closed down.

[stitchly]

The bit about fos is just rubbish! They use the OFT's guidlines to come to a decision NOT the terms and conditions of the loan.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

The bit about fos is just rubbish! They use the OFT's guidlines to come to a decision NOT the terms and conditions of the loan.

 

Not So

[stitchly]

Not So

Well in my complaint the FOS quoted various Oft guidelines that Minicredit had not adhered to!