ESA: Tribunal 'recommended' 24 months before reassessment, JC only give 12!

[**Margaret**]

:desperate99:

 

The recommendations of tribunal panels to Work n Pensions about reassessments was an initiative to reduce the endless cycle of reassessment and appeals. One of those things that seemed like a good idea at the time; it's since descended into chaos and become a very, very, grey area. Many judges don't specify whether the recommended period runs from the date of the appealed decision or the date of the tribunal, which has led to conflicting interpretations between different decision makers and benefit centres.

 

There's only two certainties;

 

Cos recommendations aren't part of the decision, they can't be appealed.

 

Work n Pensions are free to ignore the recommendations and frequently do so.

 

Unfortunately, you don't have any legal rights to avoid or delay further reassessment. Compliance with a requested work capability assessment is a condition of entitlement to employment n support. Enclose a copy of the tribunal decision (and the statement of reasons for the decision if you applied for it) with the ESA50. May help to inform the next decision.

 

A further tribunal panel would 'start from scratch' with their determination of your capability for work, but have to consider any evidence that's presented from last time round. Another tribunal isn't a foregone conclusion. No promises, but some claimants in your situation are found to have limited capability for work from the ESA50 and accompanying evidence.

 

Sincerely, Margaret.

[speedfreek]

I was told as I had been placed into the Wrag Group in October 2011 my appeal decision runs from that date, not the date of the appeal....

 

The recommendation runs from the date of the original decision so this is correct.

 

So we take this mornings run down

 

Appeal won Aug 2012 - 6-9 months on appeal so lets say decision date is Jan/Feb 2012.

 

ATOS will send out an ESA50 some 13 weeks prior to new WCA assessment so Aug with return date in Sept.

 

3-4 months wait (i think this wait is edging ever upwards) for decision to call for WCA = Jan/Feb 2014

 

Jan/Feb 2012 to Jan Feb 2014 = 24 months give or take a lot of assumptions.

 

The earlier sending out of an ESA50 by ATOS would more than likely be due to administrative error either by ATOS or the DWP when recording the appeal decision or if an earlier date from the original decision had not been replaced by the new one of 24 months.

[**Margaret**]

:Tribunal Recommendations:

 

'The recommendation runs from the date of the original decision ......'

 

Until #8 of;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?391149-ESA-tribunal-won-need-some-advice-pls

 

'The tribunal recommends that the department does not reassess Mr ...... within 2 yrs from today's date.'

 

And currently, I've a friend with a three year recommendation from a dated (earlier this year) tribunal decision, and an ESA50!!

 

A freedom of info response was that there's no guidance to judges on the issue.

 

Margaret

[lemony17]

On my decision notice the recommendation is 2 years from the date of the decision notice. Would this make any difference?

[down'n'out]

She is definiely in the Work Related Activity Group. The letter definitely states "...recommends reassessment after 24 months" (corrected from "within 24 months").

 

That is the possible reassessment time, that can be and is ignored, as an ATOS reassessment can (currently) take place when ever they want it to.

 

The placement for WRAG on the WP is based on the time given for the prognosis by ATOS. If that prognosis is 12 months or less, then mandatory placement on WP is currently possible.

With ATOS originally giving "Fit for work" it looks like the DWP have simply added a prognosis of 12 months.

The 24 month given by the tribunal is a possible time before reassessment, not a prognosis.

[45002]

I noticed there is a pattern developing with WRAG....

 

I come across several post's on the internet including CAG,where people who have been placed in ESA WRAG for 2 years only have to attend a JCP once a year and Have not ended up on some type course.

 

Reassessed after 2 years and be placed ESA WRAG for another 2 years.

 

This is one of the ways the DWP are saving money with the 365 day rule where claimants end up not entitled to income related ESA due to living with family so on and where there's some working husband/wife and alternative income's coming in...

 

I lot of theses people are over 50 years old moved over from IB and have little chance of working part time,let alone ending up full time work.

Edited August 23, 2013 by 45002

[**Margaret**]

:lemony17:

 

Assuming you're talking about the tribunal decision notice, you've got a definite statement of the judge's intention to recommend two years from the date of your appeal hearing before reassessment. Many judges simply don't say when they intend the recommendation to date from.

 

Hopefully your benefit centre will respect the recommendation but they can't be made to.

 

And even if decision makers respect a judge's recommendation about reassessment they don't always amend a date for mandatory referral to the work programme.

 

Margaret.

[osdset]

I noticed there is a pattern developing with WRAG....

 

I come across several post's on the internet including CAG,where people who have been placed in ESA WRAG for 2 years only have to attend a JCP once a year and Have not ended up on some type course.

 

Reassessed after 2 years and be placed ESA WRAG for another 2 years.

 

This is one of the ways the DWP are saving money with the 365 day rule where claimants end up not entitled to income related ESA due to living with family so on and where there's some working husband/wife and alternative income's coming in...

 

I lot of theses people are over 50 years old moved over from IB and have little chance of working part time,let alone ending up full time work.

 

 

Interesting

I'm in WRAG, I won my appeal on 02 August 2012.

 

According to the DWP I'm not due for review until August 2014.

 

The tribunal made no review recommendation on my copy of the award. I've had one WFI so far and have escaped the WP, I'm approaching 58.

 

Mine was a fresh claim so no migration from IB.

[45002]

People who are in SG of ESA don't have to claim income related ESA.

 

But

 

It wouldn't surprise if me some people who are currently in support group for a long period 2 or 3 years,when they are reviewed by ATOS/DWP will end up in ESA WRAG for 2 years and having to claim Income related ESA after 365 days.

 

That's if they don't appeal or loose a appeal been moved from SG to WRAG...

Edited August 24, 2013 by 45002

[**Margaret**]

:Flavours of Employment n Support Allowance:

 

Claimants of contribution flavoured employment n support allowance (either as the initial claim or a conversion award from incapacity benefit) aren't affected by the three hundred and sixty five days time limit for so long as they're entitled to employment n support with the support component.

 

For claimants who don't have enough national insurance contributions, all awards of employment n support are income flavoured, even ones with the support component.

 

For claimants who've unbroken credits only awards as a result of time limiting; it's worth knowing that they can reapply for employment n support with the support component if their condition deteriorates to the stage where they've limited capability for work related activity. (The usual contribution conditions are waived.)

 

Margaret.

Edited August 24, 2013 by **Margaret**

[shelllanc]

Not wanting to scaremonger, but I know people who are being dragged into reassessments up to 3 months after appearing and winning tribunals for ESA,

 

I have one

I am having a running battle with

who was given the reassessment for (ESA50) a week after appearing in court and getting into support group,

 

she has mental health problems, and this is tipping her over the edge.

 

The judge recommended a 2 year wait before reassessment from the date of the tribunal, which was put on the decision.

 

However when I spoke to ATOS and DWP supervisors, they informed me that they have now been told not to take notice of these comments.

 

They legally are not binding, although in higher courts obiter statements are, so its arguably bad practice to ignore the judge.

 

I am compiling data from anyone else who has faced these reassessments under the same circumstances,

Edited December 11, 2013 by ims21