Autism at Work

[churchill10]

I'm afraid its a bit of a long story, quite technical too.

 

Basically when I was younger (school-age) there was a lot of speculation that I had autism, was treated as special-needs etc. grew out of most of it though. I was not diagnosed with Autism/Asperger's due to a technicality.

 

In my previous job I was badly bullied and applied for something else with a different company (last summer), I was initially knocked back in early August. I didn't mention any of the early speculation about Autism since I hadn't been diagnosed.

 

Late August my previous employer set me up with an Autism assessment, the criteria had changed therefore meaning that the technicality that had prevented me from getting an earlier diagnosis was no longer there (they didn't know of my previous undiagnosed history, after all I wasn't considered disabled).

 

Early September the firm that initially knocked me back offered me a position after another candidate declined the offer. I accepted and by late September I had accepted a written offer.

 

A few days after I had accepted my written offer, I received the report from my Autism assessment and was informed that I had High-Functioning Autism.

 

I attended the induction for my new job in October and started fully in November, I didn't feel as though I could disclose my diagnosis since I felt as though it would ruin any chances I had at building a successful career where I am now. Besides, the way I had been treated by my previous employer (they effectively tried to cover up bullying) meant that I found it difficult to trust my new employer.

 

Since Christmas my new job has been getting increasingly difficult, I don't get on with my line manager and some of my colleagues, there are however, some people in the company I get on very well with.

 

The dilemma facing me is whether or not to now disclose my diagnosis, I have spoken to my parents (I'm still early in my career) who say that I risk losing my job. I have also spoken to ACAS who say the sooner I inform my employer the better. I'm still rather worried I could lose my job if I discussed my diagnosis (I'm still in my probationary period). From their perspective, I think they might consider whether they would lose a tribunal.

 

I'm on a training programme where we have to apply for a position before the programme finishes (around 2 or so years). I should add that my current employer is a large firm, so I would hope that their anti-discrimination policies would be robust (though they have had bad press over the past few months for unrelated, somewhat historical matters), that said my previous employer was a blue-chip too and that didn't help there.

 

Many thanks in advance for any advice.

[Nystagmite]

They can't sack you if you tell them about your diagnosis.

 

You're also protected by the Equalities Act 2010. (Formally Disability Discrimination Act 1995)

[Emmzzi]

They can't sack you if you tell them about your diagnosis.

 

You're also protected by the Equalities Act 2010. (Formally Disability Discrimination Act 1995)

They can't sack you *because* you tell them about your diagnosis. They can still sack you for other things, the Equality act is not a "do what you like" card!

 

Do you get any sense that you are likely to be let go? If so, why?

[churchill10]

Thank you for the advice thus far.

 

My only worry about the diagnosis itself was that it was technically before I started working for my current employer, hence they could argue I should have told them before I started.

 

I don't intend to use the Equality Act as a "do what you like" card, I do see a certain stigma about the diagnosis and believe that informing my employer could very easily damage my longer-term career plans since it would be very easy to pass someone in my position over for promotion, therefore its not a decision I would take easily.

 

The situation is simply that my line manager and I have very different ways of thinking (primarily about the office/learning culture) and we often disagree in private. I believe as a result he is potentially trying to force me out of the company by not passing my probation. My mid-probation review went badly and that stays on my record indefinitely. He has stated quite a few reasons why he doesn't think I'll pass but when politely asked to write them down on paper in a concise manner with a specific pass/fail criteria, he pretty much refused. Instead my line manager tends to ramble on a lot, tends to be very vague, doesn't like any attempt to encourage him to commit to anything.

[Emmzzi]

So he is not a detail guy.

 

Actually if I were trying to coach you, and you wanted everything written down in fine detail, I too would find that irritating. Would I think "taking an extra hour out of my day every day to explain things over again" was a reasonable adjustment? Probably not.

 

What would help YOU cope with this? You can only change your own behaviour, not his. What if you carried a notebook everywhere and when he asked you to do something differently that seemed important you just wrote it down and said "thank you, I will try harder?"

 

Also have you asked your GP about classes you can do to read social triggers more easily? A diagnosis presented with "I just found this out AND I am having some treatment" might persuade them to actually extend the probation period.

[becky2585]

Hi

 

It's entirely up to you, but there are two sides to the coin.

 

You aren't automatically protected by the Equality Act. You need to show that it substantially impacts your daily activities. Autism could fall into that bracket.

 

Has your employer ever asked you to disclose any medical conditions? If they have and you don't tell them, that could be misconduct.

 

If you need any reasonable adjustments, it's best to tell them. If you do think your disabled under the Equality Act then that would give you a degree of legal protection, but ultimately only a Tribunal can decide.

[churchill10]

I should add that I haven't asked my line manager to write down everything he has said in detail, only the points about my performance. For something to exist I think it has to be measurable, he simply talks a lot in a rather vague way, therefore a lot of the points he makes cannot be measured over time.

 

He doesn't take an hour a day to coach me and I do make detailed notes myself of any processes which I am taught etc. I would say the "reasonable adjustment" that needs to be made is simply accepting that I think slightly differently at times to him and some other members of the team. It isn't necessarily about trying as such, I am fairly competent at the tasks which I do.

 

My autism doesn't really affect my day to day life at all, it just seems to affect situations where people want me to fit into a very tight mould.

 

When I initially applied for the job I was asked if I had any disabilities, which I didn't. When I started, my line manager asked verbally if I had any medical conditions he should know about, I stated that I didn't. Potentially a bad decision there I will admit but at the time I simply didn't think it was something he needed to know about from day one, given some of the things I was subjected to at my previous employer when there was speculation about me having Autism I simply wanted to wait and see how things developed. Besides I had (and still have) a strong working relationship with the other trainees and my training manager therefore I struggled to see how it would affect me.

Edited February 9, 2013 by churchill10

[Emmzzi]

So the thing that will help you cope, is someone else changing their behaviour? No changes from you at all?

 

Can you see how other people would find that annoying?

[assisted blonde]

I think we all have instances where we dont get on with our line managers or collegues but we dont all have autism. My personal opinion is that if you can carry out day to day tasks and function within a normal environment than as you didnt declare that youy were autistic prior to the job just carry on and most people will just accept you for what you are, prehaps a bit fussy about how you carry out some tasks( I dont know how it affects you) and they will either like or dislike you nothing to do with if they know you are autistic. If you dont really need any special adjustments to do your job, why tell them, its labeling you as different

[churchill10]

I have changed my behaviour whilst in the office somewhat for the better and improved my working relationship with some people in my team. My line manager said that I have to change but that if I change too much he would believe that I am putting on a front. I have many more good working relationships than bad ones within the company and I do tend to network quite a bit with some success (something m line manager doesn't seem to like). I think he has decided my face doesn't fit and wants me out.

 

In a job I had quite a while ago (retail) I often disagreed with a line manager in private but I was lucky because he accepted me for who I am. When I left (for my previous employer where I got bullied) he said that if I was ever out of a job he would be happy to take me back, I still keep in touch with him.

 

I am in the process of applying for a similar position with a different company (another blue-chip too) and have mentioned my autism on my application. Whilst I don't want to label myself, for some reason I just seem to find it difficult getting on with certain people. Maybe if they are aware of that they will employ me and accept that or simply not employ me. Either way, eventually I would probably be able to find something long-term simply where I am accepted.

[assisted blonde]

I think we all find it hard to get on with certain people and to be honest I think you are approaching this is in the right way, being logical and not over emotional, seriously I think you will do ok, look for another job and while you are at your current one just do the best that you can, I am sure you will be fine in the long term, good luck

Edited February 9, 2013 by assisted blonde

[tallyho]

hi churchill10

I'm afraid I can't offer much advice re legal aspects of employment- however some of the problems you are describing are attributable to characteristics of your diagnosis of higher functioning autism, - this must be really difficult to come to terms with at such a late stage?

It could be really beneficial to you (if you haven't already)to talk with some of the specialist organisations. here in Edinburgh there's an excellent organisation called No 5 who specialise in helping people with autism with employment.

Unfortunately ( in a way) - it can be harder for people with HFA, as they don't always appear to be autistic - just' pedantic' or 'odd' ( ) to others- in their need to have things explained or organised in a way they can make sense off, or as they struggle with social norms or rules !

 

only you can decide whether to disclose your diagnosis or not - but for a lot of employers( and colleagues) - it would be easier to deal with any social problems that arose if they were perhaps aware and understood the cause? and this could enable them to give information relating to your job in a more descriptive manner if that helps you?

you may have a lot of very positive attributes your employer would welcome related to your diagnosis

concrete thinking leading to good problem solving

organisational skills

the ability to work well alone

didactic to seeing a job through to completion.

 

unfortunately- not all employers are fully aware of the whole range of the autistic spectrum- and may have some preconceived or outdated ideas - so, imho, speak to some of the specialist agencies, and get their advice and help in how to deal with this, and try to be open and honest with your employer about areas your diagnosis impacts on you - but also sell what it means in terms of your strengths!!

 

good luck

tallyho

[oleg]

hi churchill10

I'm afraid I can't offer much advice re legal aspects of employment- however some of the problems you are describing are attributable to characteristics of your diagnosis of higher functioning autism, - this must be really difficult to come to terms with at such a late stage?

It could be really beneficial to you (if you haven't already)to talk with some of the specialist organisations. here in Edinburgh there's an excellent organisation called No 5 who specialise in helping people with autism with employment.

Unfortunately ( in a way) - it can be harder for people with HFA, as they don't always appear to be autistic - just' pedantic' or 'odd' ( ) to others- in their need to have things explained or organised in a way they can make sense off, or as they struggle with social norms or rules !

 

only you can decide whether to disclose your diagnosis or not - but for a lot of employers( and colleagues) - it would be easier to deal with any social problems that arose if they were perhaps aware and understood the cause? and this could enable them to give information relating to your job in a more descriptive manner if that helps you?

you may have a lot of very positive attributes your employer would welcome related to your diagnosis

concrete thinking leading to good problem solving

organisational skills

the ability to work well alone

didactic to seeing a job through to completion.

Didactic??

Did you mean to type "dedicated"?

[honeybee13]

Didactic??

Did you mean to type "dedicated"?

 

Hello Oleg. I'm not sure what your point is I'm afraid.

 

For my own education, I looked up didactic, which is:

 

Definition of didactic

adjective

 

 

• intended to teach, particularly in having moral instruction as an ulterior motive: a didactic novel that set out to expose social injustice
  
• in the manner of a teacher, particularly so as to appear patronizing: his tone ranged from didactic to backslapping
  

[churchill10]

Thanks for the further advice.

 

I think I'll probably keep quiet about the autism for the moment, once I speak out its not really something I can take back, with any new applications I'll probably mention it since employers will have an idea of what to expect, given that it is very mild (many friends don't know about it) they would hopefully be pleasantly surprised. If they would see it as a barrier, would I want to work there?

 

Autism support could be useful and it will be something I will consider, that said my condition is rather mild so I don't know how much I'd be able to benefit.

 

In my current role I simply need to get as many people on side as possible, networking as I have mentioned is probably a way of doing this. I will try and "play the game" a bit, I'm not a natural schmoozer but I may want to be slightly less confrontational with my boss.

 

It is all about options, there more options I have the better. When I left my rather hellish last job I had plenty of options and I was able to remain in control as much as possible (i.e. had a few job opportunities to pick from).

 

I'm definitely open to further suggestions, although I probably post too often since the situation isn't critical yet. I will let you know how things turn out though, once again thank you for all your help and advice.

[Nystagmite]

If they would see it as a barrier, would I want to work there?

 

I would personally (I have Autism too) make it into something positive. For example, attention to detail, etc.

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

From what you say above, I think you've thought this through well.

 

I can't profess to understand autism, although my friend whose nephews are both autistic tells me that there are shades of it and that they are both very intelligent, which you sound as well. One of these little guys is quite badly affected but puts me to shame with mathematics amongst other skills. I hope this doesn't sound patronising from me.

 

Personally, I think you will be OK at work, but people are here to help and you seem to accept advice given in good heart, which is always nice for the advisers on the forum.

 

Good luck and please keep in touch. I'm sure the guys will help if they can. Certainly I will.

 

My best, HB

[honeybee13]

I would personally (I have Autism too) make it into something positive. For example, attention to detail, etc.

 

Indeed, I'm envious of the attention to detail.

 

HB

[LaughingGirl]

I would personally (I have Autism too) make it into something positive. For example, attention to detail, etc.

 

Definitely make it into a positive. A few years back, I had a chap redeployed into the department I was (admin) manager of - he had HFA, and the job he was first stuck in was a total nightmare for him for a variety of reasons. Once we'd had a good chat and he'd explained to me what parts of the job were stressful to him, we found workarounds. All I can say to you is that after that, if I could have cloned him and replaced 2/3rds of my staff with him I would have been a happy woman.

 

I agree with HB - you seem to have a very balanced view of what's happening to you, and to be honest I think you'll be fine because of that. Good luck!

[Calamity1]

I am about to have tests for autism. I am in my forties and due to my occupational background, I believe it will come out as positive, as in I am high functioning on autistic spectrum.

 

I have always been viewed as eccentric, different, pedantic, ocd etc. However... I have always seen this as a positive and all employers (bar one) and work colleagues and friends have seen it as positive too.

 

I like the way I am and find it hard to imagine what it would be like to not be like this and me.

 

My attention to detail, frankness/honesty and thinking outside of the box, means that I have been very successful in my work roles and in turn, received promotions and additional responsibilities constantly. If a job wasn't enough to keep my mind occupied, I would change it, to fit my skills and in turn, became an indispensable asset to each organisation I worked for.

 

I think, what I'm trying to say is, whatever a person's abilities, there will always be people who appreciate you for you, however unique, or otherwise, you may be. (And there will always be people you find it harder to connect with, but that's the same for everyone.)

 

The first step for me (a long time ago) was accepting that I am different and that that's not just ok, but better than ok, as we are all different and without difference there would be no life and in turn, no beauty.

 

So, my advice would be, embrace the qualities that make you special and you will see just how many other people embrace your qualities too.

 

I know this isn't really 'advice', it's just that I wanted to say that being different can be great

 

C

[churchill10]

Hi Everyone,

 

It has been quite a while since my last post and there have been quite a few developments:

 

My line manager effectively targeted me (I've got a diary, dates, times witnesses some audio recordings, though the latter are more recent), basically I didn't fit in socially with my team who were of a fairly narrow demographic. I simply don't have similar interests to them, occasionally talk but not that much, I just get on with my work. Anyway, he told me forcefully to be "more like them" and that if I wasn't like the others I wouldn't pass my probation.

 

Ultimately, I felt he had to be informed of my diagnosis since I simply wasn't understood (didn't want to make it personal with a bullying grievance at that stage). In the later stages, whilst there were occasional disagreements, these weren't particularly severe, it was just that I was different. So I informed my employer about the diagnosis.

 

Went through Occ. Health who said I should be redeployed to a different area within the business, which I agreed with.

 

I asked for a meeting with my employer where HR, line manager, training managers and myself would discuss what options were available. This was refused and employer has basically given me three months to find something else or capability dismissal is an option (almost certain according to one manager who has been dealing with the case). I have applied for a significant number of internal roles and attended a few interviews. So far, I haven't found anything (about halfway through the three months), feedback has been that I either don't have the experience or my competency examples at interview are not solid enough.

 

My current role is a training programme that is supposed to give me a few placements over a couple of years to gain enough experience for me to apply for a permanent role. I suggested simply putting my placements to remove the factors which Occupational Health have suggested but there "wasn't enough capacity for this" despite my fellow trainees (who I get on great) with making it fairly clear there was. This is interesting since my company employs over 100k people globally. I have been willing to relocate without a relocation package, all of the applications I have made thus far would require relocation. I did relocate to take my current role, though I could easily move back to my previous home (family).

 

I am aware that the Foster vs Leeds Teaching Hospital NHS Trust case only requires an adjustment to have a "prospect" of removing the disadvantage. I'm afraid its a very legal question but since I haven't really got the experience or exposure to competency situations at high enough levels to be successful at interview (without lying anyway) to go for a full role within my firm at this stage, would the redeployment count as a "prospect"?

 

I've been considering my options here, whilst I am doing my best to find things (internally and externally) I'm considering whether if the worst is likely to happen to fight it or simply to resign late. Another alternative is the recent ACAS agreement where I could just get a basic payoff and a decent reference and agree not to go to a tribunal (potentially if the worst happens). Besides, I'm not familiar with capability dismissal references, if it said I'd resigned or something I doubt there would be a problem.

 

 

[Edited, I have trimmed some things back a bit, I don't want to keep too much detail on this post for long in case someone from my work sees it].

Edited August 26, 2013 by churchill10

[Emmzzi]

Don't rely on opinions of colleagues; when the rubber hits the road the will look after themselves even if this means turning their back on you.

 

did you ask your doctor about lessons to help reading social cues like I suggested? That would help a lot with relationships.

[churchill10]

Thank you for your reply Emmazi, a lot of the stuff regarding social cues was done when I was younger. I know quite a few autistic people find appropriate eye contact difficult yet I don't have any difficulties with it. It tends to be more that when other people talk about stuff I'm not interested in (e.g. pets) I don't join in the conversation because I don't think of anything to add. Yet when, for example some of my colleagues talk about the TV, they'll mention maybe a period drama or something, yet with me, it might be something more heavy, such as a documentary about economics. I don't have the same problems with the others on my training programme (who are in other offices) because I can have a bit of a banter with them, nothing dangerous or anything but a good laugh. I would never do that sort of thing in my current office though.

 

I don't generally rely on my contacts where I am now because they're all over the country but they are a good to talk too, I'm very careful not to share too much though with them.

[Emmzzi]

I'd learn to talk about pets. You have had very clear instruction on there being a need to fit in. Small talk can be learned like any other kill.

[churchill10]

Thanks Emmazi but when I have tried the small talk in the past my line manager says I'm trying too hard to fit in and that the difference from before means it appears "fake". I have already been informed that I either find another role or I would likely be dismissed. I could really do with knowing the bearing the Foster case could have on mine (though I imagine I'd probably need a solicitor for that), I am concerned that it could effectively allow them to force me out. The interesting thing is that the "prospect" remarks by the tribunal don't seem to have that much to do with the case, since there was no prospect at all of the "adjustment" in that case working. Theoretically, from what I can see, it could leave employers free to get away with anything.