Sainsburys DWF Solicitors help!

[arc-ryder]

Hi everyone, I'm new here, I've been lurking around for some time (it's always good to learn from all the smart people on here) but never did I think I would be in the situation where I would need help.

 

I was shopping in Sainsburys a few weeks ago and brought about £25 worth of items, anyway, after walking through the exit, one of the guards grabbed me and said ''I know what you did''. Took me to the back room, looked at my receipt and apparently one of the items did not scan, I was shocked, in hindsight, I know I was on autopilot mode and if the item doesn't scan, the self checkout alerts me via 'unexpected item' response, so I carried on unaware.

 

I explained that to the guard, but he wasn't having it, and looking directly over me in an intimidating manner whilst I was seated and said ''you purposely covered the barcode with your hard and waived it over the scanner!'' At this point, I wanted to headbutt him, but had to control myself. Anyway, they gave me a form, banning me and let me go. To be honest, I was glad to get out and didn't care if I was banned for life.

 

Today, I get a letter from DWF stating:

 

Dear Sirs

 

Our Client: Sainsburys Supermarkets

Balance Due: £150

 

This sum is broken down as follows:

 

Value of goods stolen £0.00

Value of goods damaged £0.00

Value of cash stolen £0.00

Security costs £150.00

 

 

From reading this forum, I would venture to ignore them, however I have a few issues, I am moving house next week and then relocating the following week again, but this time down south, so how do I respond back to their letters if I don't know what they send, what are their timeframes in sending letters? Since I don't want or need a royal mail re-direction service.

 

I also have a new job as a 'Immigration Officer' and was wondering if this would affect it, I have to hold a high level of security clearance.

 

Please Advise guys! Many Thanks!!!

[renegadeimp]

Ignore it. There are no "security costs". These muppets are doing the same thing as RLP. And RLP's basis of gaining money has already been laughed at by a judge.

 

Regarding your job, if the police were not involved, then nothing will ever appear on your criminal record.

[BazzaS]

Hi everyone, I'm new here, I've been lurking around for some time (it's always good to learn from all the smart people on here) but never did I think I would be in the situation where I would need help.

 

I was shopping in Sainsburys a few weeks ago and brought about £25 worth of items, anyway, after walking through the exit, one of the guards grabbed me and said ''I know what you did''. Took me to the back room, looked at my receipt and apparently one of the items did not scan, I was shocked, in hindsight, I know I was on autopilot mode and if the item doesn't scan, the self checkout alerts me via 'unexpected item' response, so I carried on unaware.

 

I explained that to the guard, but he wasn't having it, and looking directly over me in an intimidating manner whilst I was seated and said ''you purposely covered the barcode with your hard and waived it over the scanner!'' At this point, I wanted to headbutt him, but had to control myself. Anyway, they gave me a form, banning me and let me go. To be honest, I was glad to get out and didn't care if I was banned for life.

 

Today, I get a letter from DWF stating:

 

Dear Sirs

 

Our Client: Sainsburys Supermarkets

Balance Due: £150

 

This sum is broken down as follows:

 

Value of goods stolen £0.00

Value of goods damaged £0.00

Value of cash stolen £0.00

Security costs £150.00

 

 

From reading this forum, I would venture to ignore them, however I have a few issues, I am moving house next week and then relocating the following week again, but this time down south, so how do I respond back to their letters if I don't know what they send, what are their timeframes in sending letters? Since I don't want or need a royal mail re-direction service.

 

I also have a new job as a 'Immigration Officer' and was wondering if this would affect it, I have to hold a high level of security clearance.

 

Please Advise guys! Many Thanks!!!

 

The usual advice is "ignore", or "send one letter stating 'I deny any liability to you".

 

If you are concerned that they might issue a court claim to your current address, and get a judgement by default if you then didn't oppose any such claim because you didn't know about it : you could always get any such judgement "set-aside" if you weren't aware of a claim.

You might consider writing, saying "I deny any liability, oh, and by the way, I'm moving, here is my new address, in case you decide to attempt to pursue this", so that:

 

a) if they did follow it up, you'd know about it if they used your new address,

b) any "set-aside" if they used your old address would be easier to show you hadn't tried to evade the paperwork, and they'd had your new address and chosen not to use it.

 

You could send it by ordinary post & get a certificate of posting, or by recorded delivery. If sent by RD : if they didn't get a signature on delivery you'd get your postage back, and could resend it, but RD doesn't guarantee delivery, only a signature IF they deliver it.

The more expensive "Special Delivery" allows for both signature on delivery AND is a "guaranteed delivery" service : options for you for whichever will give you the level of "peace of mind" you desire!

[arc-ryder]

Thank you so much for the quick replies!!

 

Regarding the 'I deny any liability' quote, is it better to send a letter stating that rather than just simply ignoring them. Does this give me some sort of security or protection?

 

Also, I have read on other forums/threads, they sometimes get your number and keep ringing you, how exactly do they get a hold of a telephone number if I have not provided one?

 

Also, does anyone know if they eventually begin to write 'final demand' or any other threatening remarks on the envelope? I only ask since I don't really want my parents or siblings to find my post when I am not home and get unnecessarily frightened.

 

Thanks for all your help so far.

[2Grumpy]

I would consider being more pro-active on this one.

 

1. You used the self-scan and the equipment
   
2. One of the items failed to scan
   
3. You didn't notice the lack of a bleep due to the many other bleeps from other customers
   
4. the equipment failed to register that item being placed in your bag (lets face it, it frequently goes off when you have scanned the item)
   
5. the store personnel had noticed their equipment failure
   
6. rather than resolving their problem by pointing out what had happened, they take you to a room and accuse you of theft, then claim money from you at a later date
   

 

I would be asking for a copy of any cctv that they have, including the room that you were taken to.

 

This is appalling really, they need to be stamped on

[2Grumpy]

I wonder if many of sainsbury's customers know that this is the action that they will take if you make a mistake and their equipment doesn't register it?

 

Maybe somebody should be contacting the consumer columns in the newspapers / watchdog on TV

 

Maybe then they would think again about treating their customers so shabbily

[renegadeimp]

Supermarkets usually say it is the customers responsibility to ensure that all items are scanned. Even when going through a manned checkout.

[Anus Horribilis]

I would consider being more pro-active on this one.

 

1. You used the self-scan and the equipment
   
2. One of the items failed to scan
   
3. You didn't notice the lack of a bleep due to the many other bleeps from other customers
   
4. the equipment failed to register that item being placed in your bag (lets face it, it frequently goes off when you have scanned the item)
   
5. the store personnel had noticed their equipment failure
   
6. rather than resolving their problem by pointing out what had happened, they take you to a room and accuse you of theft, then claim money from you at a later date
   

 

 

In this case I agree. A polite but firm letter stating that this was a mistake with no dishonest intention, and if it had been brought to your attention more constructively it would have been resolved very easily. You do not accept that there was any theft, or any attempt or intention of theft, and you do not accept any liability towards the spurious charge they wish to make. I will not respond to further offensive accusations, will not be shopping in Sainsburys any more if this is how customers are treated.

[2Grumpy]

A polite but firm letter stating that this was a mistake with no dishonest intention

 

A polite but firm letter stating that this was an equipment failure on their part an with no dishonest intention or actions by you....

[geoff1248]

It would be interesting to know how long these supermarkets spend training their own staff on "How to Scan an Item". It appears that they expect their customers to manage with no training whatsoever. It would also be of interest to know what action they take if one of their own till staff fails to scan an item.

[renegadeimp]

They actually go on a small course. the operators are told to help a customer if the light is on, the customer requests it, or the customer looks like they need help.

[geoff1248]

They actually go on a small course. the operators are told to help a customer if the light is on, the customer requests it, or the customer looks like they need help.

 

So if the customer doesn't know they have made a mistake no lights will go on, they will not request help and will not look as if they need help. Seems to me that supermarkets are going to have a very difficult time PROVING that it was a deliberate act rather than a genuine mistake. Shoplifters are going to have a field day!

[renegadeimp]

Supermarkets train their staff in such an eventuality. As such it, each supermarket has different practices, but they dont release them to the public.

[2Grumpy]

If you don't scan an item at the self-scan then put it in your bag, there is an announcement along the lines of "unexpected item in bagging area" or equivalent that roughly translates to "that last item didn't scan too well". If it doesn't scan and you don't get the warning, that amounts to an equipment malfunction ...

I doubt that all of these actions are logged ...

[renegadeimp]

There is always the possibility of things like that happening, but lately, the self scan areas seem to have been updated, so now they it is done by weight as well. This is to stop people having a 2 x 2litre bottles of coke and a bottle of JD. The person scans the coke 3 times and puts the JD in the bag. Saving themselves £10-20. Theres a LOT more to it than what you guys are discussing here.

[Sidewinder]

There is always the possibility of things like that happening, but lately, the self scan areas seem to have been updated, so now they it is done by weight as well. This is to stop people having a 2 x 2litre bottles of coke and a bottle of JD. The person scans the coke 3 times and puts the JD in the bag. Saving themselves £10-20. Theres a LOT more to it than what you guys are discussing here.

 

Indeed. Up to date versions of the software are VERY accurate!

[arc-ryder]

Thanks for all your help guys, I received the second letter which is pretty much the same as the first. I have responded with 'I deny any liability to the spurious claims made'.

[lenny01]

Good luck arc-ryder,

 

Do not worry about anything showing up on your record, as the police weren't involved, as far as they or any of their records are concerned the incident never happened.

 

To be guilty of theft they need to prove that you were intentionally dishonest. If they get grumpy with you I would request a copy of the CCTV footage, by submitting a subject access request and if its nice and clear cut that it was a genuine mistake (i.e. your hand wasn't over the barcode when you were scanning) then I would invite them to take you to court as you refute the allegation that you acted dishonestly.

 

Quick question, did you pay for said item before you left at any point?

[arc-ryder]

Good luck arc-ryder,

 

Do not worry about anything showing up on your record, as the police weren't involved, as far as they or any of their records are concerned the incident never happened.

 

To be guilty of theft they need to prove that you were intentionally dishonest. If they get grumpy with you I would request a copy of the CCTV footage, by submitting a subject access request and if its nice and clear cut that it was a genuine mistake (i.e. your hand wasn't over the barcode when you were scanning) then I would invite them to take you to court as you refute the allegation that you acted dishonestly.

 

Quick question, did you pay for said item before you left at any point?

 

Thanks, I would venture to guess most stores delete their CCTV, if they have any within a few months, by the time this is escalated, there probably won't be any footage left.

 

I did not pay for the item before I left, I was not aware it did not scan and was stopped outside as I left the premises.

 

Thanks!

[arc-ryder]

Sorry for the late replies, I still don't have an internet connection at my new address and can only get on sometimes when I tether my phone, but this kills my data allowance, lol.

[adebabyo1]

hi there something similar has happened to me recently and i have now got the same letter, my question is did you pay it? or what was the outcome? thx

[renegadeimp]

hi there something similar has happened to me recently and i have now got the same letter, my question is did you pay it? or what was the outcome? thx

 

Please start your own thread and give us some background info. Also, take some time to look around this forum and read the advice given to others.

[adebabyo1]

thx

 

i was wondering on the outcome of the demanding letter that was received

[renegadeimp]

The letters are empty threats. As i said, have a good long read of the forums. Youll know what to do then.

[adebabyo1]

thanks for your reply

 

i have only found this thread that relates to the info i need,,, i found info on a similar site,,,, its just worrying considering nothing was proved and in my case my partner and I have both received letters for £150 security costs despite the security team dealt with it as one offence,, let me state thou they did not even talk to us and listen to our side of the miss understanding before they called the police