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kken67

Want to leave but boss will make my life hell. advice please!

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Yes Becky 2585, its because I went to the police after being assaulted by a pupil who shattered my cheekbone with a headbutt and my employers feel that it was the reason they didnt get a contract they were hoping to get.

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Emmzzi, I am not getting at you, just wondered if it could be argued that there is an implied contract re pay if it has always been this way for donkeys years and also if there was mileage in claiming I am being discriminated against.

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oh, you are clearly being discriminated against. Just not for one of the protected characteristics, so little legal challenge there. I think your claim of bullying is the way to go, and that ACAS are right to suggest you raise a grievance. You have also previously been advised to talk to the board of govenros, have you done that yet?

 

I think the advice you have been given on your other thread is pretty comprehensive and am not sure what else you are looking for guidance on, can you clarify?


Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!

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I dont really know what advice I am looking for, it just seems that the only way I can go is constructive dismissal as I know from experience that a formal grievance will get me nowhere, (previous employees have tried) and of course I am worried about paying the bills so I seem to be stuck between a rock and a hard place. Just wondering if I have missed an option that occurs to you guys. Probably clutching at straws really! I have actually spoken to one of the officers who is dealing with the GBH court case and he thinks my boss is one of the most abhorrent people he has come across. He just doesnt care and almost relishes industrial action!

Oh, and we dont have a board of governors.

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Kken,

 

So sorry to hear your troubles are still ongoing.

 

As if being assaulted was not enough, now you have to put up with your employers petty, pathetic little tantrums. It is so childish and unfair, but unfortunately none of us can ever control how others behave.

 

Firstly remember that you have done nothing wrong here. It was absolutely 100% right that you phoned the police, reported the assault and had the young boy convicted. Unfortunately as this is his first official offence and he is pleading guilty, some sort of referral or community order will be the most likely punishment. There is absolutely nothing you can do about that and the decision is now in the hands of the court. Though perhaps through the referral order he will learn from this and realise it is not ok to go around head butting people. Regardless of whether he does or not it is not your problem and you have no control over any of it.

 

What you can control is how you behave in response to all of this and I can see from what you have written it is already having an impact on your health. This is the only thing you do have some control over and in my humble opinion is the most important thing. So I implore you, please do not let this go on so long that it really has a big impact on your health. I did let it go do far in my case and am now paying the price for it in terms of my health.

 

I suggest you do not pay too much attention to your employers threats about reducing the number of classes, as you rightly say it is probably just a tactic to try and scare you. So as I see it you basically have two choices:

 

1) Continue with your employment at the current school while continuing to look for another job with the right salary and conditions. This will mean having to put up with the employers school boy antics, which will continue and even get worse if he sees they are not having an effect on you. It seems he is determined to make life as miserable as possible for you until you just cannot take it anymore and resign. This man is a bully and the thing about bullies is they have no morals, they will go to any lengths to achieve the ultimate goal of seeing their victim fall apart. This is a very dangerous game he is playing with possibly very serious consequences.

 

2) I am not a big fan of ACAS and when I needed help I too found them to be particularly unhelpful. Though on this occasion I have to say their advice is spot on. In my humble opinion there is nothing left for you at this school apart from pain, misery and unhappiness and your employer has made it his position to ensure that is the case. Therefore you submit a formal grievance as per the schools formal grievance procedure and once you have exhausted this resign and claim constructive dismissal. With a claim for constructive unfair dismissal to the employment tribunal, if successful your then former employer will be forced to pay your salary from the date you were constructively dismissed until the date of the tribunal hearing and then the judge will look at how long you have have been likely to continue working for that employer and may make an award for future earnings as well.

 

I realise these two options may seem like no choice at all. Either continue working there and put up with all the crap he throws at you, or go through a grievance procedure and then the hassle of taking him to court. The defining factor between the two options is about looking after you and your health. Should you choose to stay at this school your employer will make it his mission in life to make your life as miserable and stressful as he possibly can. Whereas if you go through the grievance procedure and option two, you are taking back the reigns of control and effectively saying to him I have done nothing wrong and the way you are treating me is completely wrong and I will not allow it to continue.

 

Sorry if this sounds very blunt, I am just trying to point out what your options are and give you the facts in my humble opinion and then allow you to make your own decisions. Whichever route you decide to take, please remember 2 very important things:

 

a) You have done nothing wrong and therefore do not deserve to have been put in this position.

b) No matter which option you choose your are never alone. There are some very good people on the forum who have been through all of this and are only too willing to lend a helping hand whenever they can.

 

I send you my sincere condolences for the position you now find yourself in through no fault of your own.

 

Best Wishes

DJ

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What sort of sick pay scheme do they offer? If it will cover you ok for a while, then my advice to you is to go to your GP tomorrow morning and be signed off. To my mind this is precisely a case of constructive dismissal, however, that is only my logic and most likely the common view, it doesn't mean that I am right. So, whilst signed off, go and see an employment specialist for a free half hour, and see what they have to say about this.

 

However, I'd like to know if I am barking up the right tree here from our experts, out of interest. Logic says to me that if you resigned now whilst the boy is NOT at the school, and because you have carried on working there since the attack, this would not be constructive dismissal. However, if you were to put in a grievance about the whole bloody debacle and how it has affected you and your very real fear of this boy coming back, plus the way you have been treated since it happened - well surely, if they then let him back, and you are afraid of even worse retaliation violence this time, that has got to be constructive dismissal hasn't it? If you then resigned on confirmation of his return for your own personal safety?

 

But I do know that you musn't resign right now, until you have been given the correct advice.

 

This business about the things that you know about the school that could get them into trouble. Well, I'm very much a "what is not my business does not bother me" person unless or until what previously didn't bother me has harmed someone else. For instance if the stoner in the flat over the road wants to smoke weed 24/7 thats up to him, but if he goes out driving or I saw him obviously dealing to the local youngsters, then that's different. The little fishwife who lives below me is having an affair most nights whilst her husband is at work and the baby is asleep. That's up to her. My lips are sealed. However, when the husband catches her and starts fighting down there, then I will call the police for the safety of the child. Its very difficult and I know what you mean about lowering yourself. but on the balance of it - if we are talking about too many fag breaks, then so what? but if we are talking about something where harm to another person is the likely outcome then I think you know what needs to be done don't you?

 

And as for colleagues losing jobs, the school losing money - well oh dear, did any of these people worry about your cheekbone? Or the long term effects this is likely to have on your confidence? Or your absolute right to report to the police that you had been assaulted? How many of them supported you?

 

Do you know, the only experience I can slightly liken to this is years ago I managed 3 flats above a shop. One tenant was a single mum, two nippers, and a dodgy boyfriend. The post for the shop was delivered to her flat by mistake, and it included a cheque book. She and her boyfriend wrote out two cheques of £600 each to themselves, forged the signature, banked the cheques and they cleared. The money was squandered, the shop of course discovered it, the police were involved. I knew if I evicted this girl the kids were headed straight for care. So, out of fairness (and because all the other tenants knew about it anyway and with her permission) I wrote to them and asked them if they could possibly bear it if i gave the stupid girl one last chance and let her stay. The answers were "no" and so she was out. I was on the side of the victims but at least attempted to mediate and see if there was any way forward. The victims felt there wasn't any trust left, so that was that. Why then did the school not carry out a simple exercise like this? Or is that too simple for the law?

 

Anyway just a few ramblings whilst waiting for the experts. Keep rambling back so we know you are ok. Its a tricky one which requires a lot of thought, so don't go acting right now, step back and have a good old think. X

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Just had a phonecall from the CID officer who is dealing with this case and he told me it got adjourned again til October sometime. Apparently the defence solicitor was out of his depth (was more a family solicitor than a criminal solicitor) and got the proceedings messed up so a new defence solicitor has been appointed.

He also told me that in his 30 odd years on the force he has rarely come across a person as abhorrent as my boss and will support me in any way he can which is nice.

I have held on at school since this happened at the very end of May with the knowledge we were close to school holidays when i thought i would be able to find something else and with the help of antidepressants and pure bloody mindedness. I had a number of year 11 boys that meant so much to me that I wanted to see them right to the end and get them through their exams. Coupled with the fact that my classroom is right at the top of the school and most of the time I could keep out of the way of the boss but it was truely awful. I havent had to take the antidepressants over the summer holidays as I was safe at home but already my anxiety levels are through the roof at the prospect of going back. The lad who assaulted me hasnt been in school since the attack as the police were able to apply bail conditions but he has been honest with me and isnt 100% sure they will be able to keep him out until the new trial date though he is going to try.

I have decided to try to approach my boss and basically ask him why he is behaving so badly towards me but am expecting a tongue lashing. I have been told though that if I end up taking him to tribunal, showing that I have tried to deal amicably will go in my favour. I am also going to keep a diary of everything he does to me which will be plenty. I think he is going to get increasingly frustrated and do something drastic because he knows I am in the right and I am not letting him get the upperhand. He is ex forces and is used to everybody jumping to attention and never questioning him. But I have done absolutely nothing wrong and am going to stand my ground.

I appreciate everyones support, it certainly helps me stand up to this bullying!

 

There is no sick pay scheme so it would just be statutory sick plus my hubby works there aswell so its doubly difficult as all our income is tied into the school. That is the main thing I am worried about if I claim constructive dismissal. I understand that eventually I would get paid out but how does anyone pay their mortgage or bills etc during the time it takes to sort out. I am a natural worrier and have two dependants to support so am scared to walk out and be without a wage. Although this is so horrible, I will never risk my childrens security. They would tell me not to worry about the impact on them as they would just want me right but I cant help it, they will always come first!

 

Anyway, enough rambling, I will keep everyone updated and hopefully get through this somehow, thanks so much!

Edited by kken67

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Kken,

 

Sorry things did not go so well in court today, I imagine in some ways you may have been looking forward to see justice done however feeble and finally bring some closure to this entire mess. At least the cid officer seems supportive and make use of his offer to help in any way he can.

 

Fantastic idea to keep a diary of events, excellent evidence if things ever deteoriated to the point where you were forced to bring your employer to court.

 

Your courage and commitment to your children is admirable. It says so much about you as a person and a mother that you are not willing to compromise their future.

 

I wish you well and hope that all this nastiness blows over, giving you a fair chance to get on with the rest of your life.

 

Stay strong

DJ

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Hi dj1971, thanks for the support. Couldnt help noticing that you have your own troubles going on right now. Whilst I cannot help practically as I do not know enough, please be assured that my support is there. Should you wish to just need a pick up or a vent please feel free to contact me. The guys that help on here are truely fantastic dont you think! Best of luck for what I know is a horrible time.

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I have finally been paid today but not my normal wage. I have sent a text to my boss asking what the deduction of more than £200 is in relation to but not had a response as yet. Not really expecting a response tbh because since we have been in dispute he does not respond to my texts at all although he did send a text re work 2 days ago and I responded as soon as I could as I wouldnt be so petty. What do I do about getting a response to this unauthorised deduction from my earnings?

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you put it in writing recorded delivery. text is not a normal way of conducting business.


Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!

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Email is better, but keep the texts too as evidence.

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Kken,

 

Thank you for your offer of support, it is very much appreciated.

 

Yes I am going through the mill a bit at the moment, but have some fantastic people here helping me along the way and I just could not do it without them. For me personally, I just got to the point where it was all getting too much and have a serious impact on my health so I had to leave for the sake of my own sanity and health. Now I must see this through at tribunal not for any money I might receive as compensation as nothing can take away the hell my former employers put me through, but so that I can be heard and have my say in court then regardless of the outcome I will have no regrets and can get on with the rest of my life, in the full knowledge I did my best.

 

For you too, always remember you are never alone in all of this and feel free to ask questions or just have a rant anytime.

 

Best Wishes

DJ

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Hi, just popped in to wish you all the best, as I have a greivance in with my employer, and I am on half pay, been off sick with trauma, waiting list for treatment is 8 months, and I am behind with my mortgage. But people on here are wonderful, they do help you to calm down a bit, as you know other people are trying their best for you. Will keep my fingers crossed for you... good luck.


LilythePink

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I work in a private educational establishment that is becoming a nightmare. There is no discipline and no support from management. I was assaulted recently and because they didnt want the bad press,they were really angry the police were involved. I really feel i cant continue there and have decided to find another job. The problem I have is that they seem to take it as a personal affront when people want to leave and give bad references as some form of 'punishment'. A colleague who couldnt tolerate things anymore resigned, worked his notice and was pretty much offered another job he really wanted only for the new employers to say they couldnt give him the job due to his reference. I just know they will make life as difficult as possible for me if they know i am looking to leave. I cant think of one ex employee who has been given a decent reference.I feel trapped! to make things worse, my husband was persuaded to join the school a few years ago much to his regret now and wants out but he would be in the same position. How do we get out without decent references?

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Point to note is that there should be no such thing as a 'bad' reference. It can only be factual and devoid of personal opinion as anything which is not factual, or has been included for the purpose of misleading the recipient could easily be actionable in law. I hope that your former colleague went to the trouble of obtaining a copy (the prospective employer receiving a reference is obliged under the DPA to provide this, not the author) so that he could take issue with anything untoward.

 

This may be a hurdle that you need to cross, but shouldn't be a barrier to leaving - we spend long enough at work as it is without it having to be a living hell! Perhaps you could discuss the assault during interview (if that is what you fear will be a 'negative') and explain that as one reason for wanting to move on so that you at least get your side of the story out there for discussion before it is raised in a reference.


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What happened with your october court date?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?356149-Help-being-bullied!

 

Have you managed to save up anything to tide you over if you leave and do not work immediately?

 

Did you lodge a grievance as advised?


Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!

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Hi

 

This is the link to you previous thread on this may be useful for others:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?356149-Help-being-bullied!&highlight=kken67

 

Emmzzi beat me to that question with the court date.

 

Now these PDFs from this link may be of use as it deals with the independent school sector: http://www.atl.org.uk/

Edited by stu007

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I cannot give any advice by PM - If you provide a link to your Thread then I will be happy to offer advice there.

I advise to the best of my ability, but I am not a qualified professional, benefits lawyer nor Welfare Rights Adviser.

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Hi

 

This PDF from ACAS as well and bear in mind what Sidewinder said when you read this:

Edited by stu007

How to Upload Documents/Images on CAG - **INSTRUCTIONS CLICK HERE**

FORUM RULES - Please ensure to read these before posting **FORUM RULES CLICK HERE**

I cannot give any advice by PM - If you provide a link to your Thread then I will be happy to offer advice there.

I advise to the best of my ability, but I am not a qualified professional, benefits lawyer nor Welfare Rights Adviser.

Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

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Hi all, tried to reply last night but internet went down just as i hit the send button! Anyway, in October, the lad got convicted of GBH but stupidly only got a 3 month referral order - in what world does that correlate!!!!!

He is in the school but I havent had to teach him but the general situation in school is worse not just for me but for everyone. I cant help thinking it is because the pupils have seen the consequences and arent concerned. Infact only in the last 2 weeks the same lad lost his temper with the male boss and broke his glasses but nothing happened (well my boss could hardly do anything after not supporting me) and another member of staff was slapped across the face by a different pupil. It is not a pleasant or safe environment a lot of the time. Virtually every member of staff has said to me they want out. The colleague who has just left got an inheritance and took the opportunity to leave a couple of months ago. Since then, he was more or less offered another job but then they came back to him and said he had an unsatisfactory reference. Now, he can survive a little longer but not for too much longer. I am friends with a few people who have left and each one has had problems with getting a decent reference so you can imagine what mine would be like. I am sitting here now desperately wishing I didnt have to go in which is a shame because there are some nice kids who I really want to work with but I have to deal with verbal and often threatened physical abuse daily and I am a liked teacher!!! I should point out it is not a behavioural school. So frustrated as it could be good but atm is the opposite and I am completely worn down. Any advice would be great, thanks.

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Tricky. If you signed a compromise agreement there'd be an agreed reference but you also couldn't bad mouth the school... Might they go for that? Otherwise a frank discussion about stress and needing to pay you to be off sick versus helping you move to a better environment for you?

 

Other than that, could you cut your hours and do eg ta work at another school for a reference?

 

It is hard to take legal action when no offence has been committed yet. Are your performance reviews Ok? Could you show those to an employer?


Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!

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I have never had a single reprimand re my teaching, just to do with the police being involved. But, guess what has just happened today - Ofsted have rung and they are in tomorrow! Apparently there is a new system aswell whereby they are going to do a sealed staff questionnaire re management and support. My female boss has just been round us all and said that if we have any grievances, to speak to them directly, not to Ofsted as it will affect our future employment if the school gets a bad review. Great huh!

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would any of your colleagues who have found work elsewhere be able to talk to their schools about the situation to help you into a new role?


Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!

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My female boss has just been round us all and said that if we have any grievances, to speak to them directly, not to Ofsted as it will affect our future employment if the school gets a bad review. Great huh!

TBH I wouldn't know the legal stance on that. But it could be construed as harassment. And I would definitely tell ofsted :-)


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