parking confusion - pls help

[rjsazaa]

Hi

After searching the internet for an answer I have come across this forum - I really hope you can help

 

My partner has recently began to provide deliveries for his takeaway business. I have been parking in a close by loading bay after the loading only times are over (after 6.30pm) but have been harshly told today

 

1. that this road is not supposed to be used by 'private vehicles' (there is a steady flow of traffic through this road despite this!)

2. you need a permit to park in a loading bay unless you are a van or truck or bus

 

Please note the delivery is brought to the car, the car is never left unattended, the engine is always running - the car is not parked and left.

Oh, at least one other business provides deliveries and also parks in the loading bay, but they are actually parked between deliveries as the driver also works in the restaurant.

 

Thanks for any help available

[Conniff]

Welcome to the Consumer Action forums.

 

Who told your this rjsazaa ?

[havinastella]

Can you post up a google shot of the place you are parking?

[rjsazaa]

hi, thanks for replying

 

i was told by a bus driver who beeped me out of the loading bay

 

i will try to show the google images

[rjsazaa]

hi, sorry my laptop does not seem to allow me to copy google images

its on mill lane, cardiff, toward john lewis, past the long bus stop area

if you can attach them please

[Conniff]

Is this it ?

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]41295[/ATTACH]

[Jamberson]

that this road is not supposed to be used by 'private vehicles' (there is a steady flow of traffic through this road despite this!)

 

That's compete garbage. There are no regs of this type which distinguish between a private vehicle (whatever that actually means) and a non-private vehicle.

 

you need a permit to park in a loading bay unless you are a van or truck or bus

 

No such thing.

 

I would guess that whoever told you this is trying to deter you for their own reasons, by making things up. If you are there after the loading restiction has ended, then it's just a parking space and, if it's just a public piece of land, and not private property, then anyone can park in it. If it's private land, then it may be different.

[rjsazaa]

Is this it ?

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]41295[/ATTACH]

 

no, its past this bit, sorry

 

at the end of this part come a V section, one on left has bollards (which we can pass before 10am to get to our business) and then the one on right which has a long bus stop section, then the loading bay

[rjsazaa]

That's compete garbage. There are no regs of this type which distinguish between a private vehicle (whatever that actually means) and a non-private vehicle.

 

 

 

No such thing.

 

I would guess that whoever told you this is trying to deter you for their own reasons, by making things up. If you are there after the loading restiction has ended, then it's just a parking space and, if it's just a public piece of land, and not private property, then anyone can park in it. If it's private land, then it may be different.

 

 

Thankyou

I have never been told by any of the other bus drivers to move from here, and i always try to park as close to the away end of the loading bay, leaving room behind for another vehicle.

 

I have been thinking this over since it happened and a pre christmas event came to mind, i was driving through and the area was being monitored by traffic police due to the chaos, I was stopped by one of the policemen and asked where i was going, I said loading bay to pick up a delivery, he said fine and waved me through.

 

so confused!

[sgtbush]

Hi

After searching the internet for an answer I have come across this forum - I really hope you can help

 

My partner has recently began to provide deliveries for his takeaway business. I have been parking in a close by loading bay after the loading only times are over (after 6.30pm) but have been harshly told today

 

1. that this road is not supposed to be used by 'private vehicles' (there is a steady flow of traffic through this road despite this!)

2. you need a permit to park in a loading bay unless you are a van or truck or bus

 

Please note the delivery is brought to the car, the car is never left unattended, the engine is always running - the car is not parked and left.

Oh, at least one other business provides deliveries and also parks in the loading bay, but they are actually parked between deliveries as the driver also works in the restaurant.

 

Thanks for any help available

 

can you please post a picture of the sign that says private vehicles are banned

ans a sign that says you need a permit to load

and WHO excatly told you all this

[rjsazaa]

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Mill+Lane,+Cardiff&hl=en&ll=51.477209,-3.175889&spn=0.00699,0.021136&sll=51.502241,-3.19941&sspn=0.111771,0.338173&oq=mill+la&hnear=Mill+Ln,+Cardiff,+United+Kingdom&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=51.477209,-3.175889&panoid=vibPwjjSVVoVGfqLLIJyuw&cbp=12,45,,1,0

 

http://goo.gl/maps/XpqAM

 

http://goo.gl/maps/3yE6D

 

i hope these work!

 

the first shows the signs where you drive in

the second shows the bus area and the loading bay after it

the third shows a close up of the loading bay sign

 

thanks

Edited February 5, 2013 by rjsazaa
tried to upload images

[Michael Browne]

This?:

http://goo.gl/maps/DxGu1

[rjsazaa]

can you please post a picture of the sign that says private vehicles are banned

ans a sign that says you need a permit to load

and WHO excatly told you all this

 

if there were signs i would not have a dilema

 

but i was told by a bus driver who beeped me out of the loading bay then came out of the bus to tell me it all (very nasty manner!)

[rjsazaa]

This?:

http://goo.gl/maps/DxGu1

 

yes thats it!

[Jamberson]

Only buses, cycles and taxis can enter. While the bay is in force, goods vehicles can enter to use the bay. Since you are not a goods vehicle using the bay while it is in force, you are not permitted to enter. Although what the bus driver told you was inaccurate, it's true that you shouldn't be there. Not a parking contravention - a moving traffic violation for crossing a blue sign prohibiting you.

[sailor sam]

Amazing isn't it that the story in pictures is completely different to the worded version. As jamberson says, the road is restricted as per the sign. However, I would say that the signs at the start of the street should state 'Except Goods Vehicles' or words to that effect as it's not until you get to the loading bay that you see that it is for goods vehicles only.So unless you were driving a vehicle specifically built for carrying goods, the police officer got it wrong!

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[rjsazaa]

Thankyou Jamberson and Sailor Sam for clarifying the situation

 

In case of misunderstanding my 'story', I was not trying to mislead, just stated the facts as they were. I did not realise that loading could not be done by a car (its a 4x4) and will avoid driving through the area in future.

 

 

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to help. It is appreciated.

[sailor sam]

Thankyou Jamberson and Sailor Sam for clarifying the situation

 

In case of misunderstanding my 'story', I was not trying to mislead, just stated the facts as they were. I did not realise that loading could not be done by a car (its a 4x4) and will avoid driving through the area in future.

 

 

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to help. It is appreciated.

 

I didn't suggest you were "trying to mislead". But your account was clearly giving us the wrong info judging by the earlier comments (post #7 in particular). It all became clear when you provided the images/location. And for your info, loading CAN be done in a car but the restriction here is GOODS vehicle loading, i.e. restricted to vehicles built exclusively for delivering goods such as a van or truck.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[Echodale]

The sign on the entry to the road says bus, taxi, cycle only except for loading, she passes the sign for loading purposes so has not committed no moving traffic offence. She said she is stopping there after the end of the goods vehicle only restriction period. So she has not permitted a parking offence either.

 

The bus driver is not a traffic enforcement officer nor a parking enforcement officer, I would have been inclined to thank him very much for the information he has provided and tell him I will verify his opinion with the relevant authority.

 

The best thing to do is write to the local highway authority which is likely to be Cardiff City Council and seek clarity on the matter.

[green_and_mean]

The sign on the entry to the road says bus, taxi, cycle only except for loading,

.

 

It doesn't in fact state 'only' its a blue permissive sign not a restriction it should state the word only on the supplementary plate which it doesn't the lower panel is not only missleading it requires DofT approval.

[Echodale]

It doesn't in fact state 'only'.

 

Good point but even without the word only and the necessary approval it does say except for loading and she is passing the sign to do some loading so she has complied, then when she gets to the bay it says only goods vehicles up to 18:30 again she complies, so even if the signage was proved to be legal she has done nothing wrong.

[Jamberson]

The sign on the entry to the road says bus, taxi, cycle only except for loading, she passes the sign for loading purposes so has not committed no moving traffic offence. She said she is stopping there after the end of the goods vehicle only restriction period. So she has not permitted a parking offence either.

 

But that's contradictory. If she passes the sign with intent to carry out loading, but proceeds to park instead, then the has violated the conditions for entering. She could argue it if she did get a PCN for doing so, but as a general point, she should not be passing that sign unless it is to load.

[sailor sam]

Good point but even without the word only and the necessary approval it does say except for loading and she is passing the sign to do some loading so she has complied, then when she gets to the bay it says only goods vehicles up to 18:30 again she complies, so even if the signage was proved to be legal she has done nothing wrong.

 

I think you will find you are wrong. As G & M says, the blue sign should say 'Only', meaning the street is restricted to the vehicles indicated. The plate should read 'Except for Goods Vehicle Loading' IMO but never the less it means in a nutshell that cars are not permitted in the street at all whether loading or not. Basically it is a bus lane with a loading bay in it and the loading bay is restricted to goods vehicles.

 

Having said the above, as it stands with the signage as it is, it may be possible to appeal a PCN on the grounds the signage is non-compliant.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[Jamberson]

I agree that the signage may be non-compliant but moreover it is misleading. As Echodale points out, you could enter as a car in order to load, as per the info on the signs, but you would realise that the bay prohibits this when you got there. As it stands, I think the bay is available for any vehicle to load outside of hours. Of course, it's all open to interpretation and it would need a ruling in the event of an appeal.

[sailor sam]

I agree that the signage may be non-compliant but moreover it is misleading. As Echodale points out, you could enter as a car in order to load, as per the info on the signs, but you would realise that the bay prohibits this when you got there. As it stands, I think the bay is available for any vehicle to load outside of hours. Of course, it's all open to interpretation and it would need a ruling in the event of an appeal.

 

Thats why I said the words'Goods Vehicle' should be also on the plate.

 

Please Note

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.