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    • I'm trying to understand it all but I certainly tend to agree with my colleague @dx100uk that it looks as if you may have been taken for a ride. You found an advertisement for a bag on an online sales site. Instead of going through the established procedure of that site, which presumably allows them to recover a commission from the seller you started dealing directly with the seller who is an unknown person to you and of course that allowed the seller to avoid paying the commission. At whose suggestion was it that you went off-site? You then pay by PayPal but instead of logging it with PayPal as a payment for a purchased item, you tell PayPal that it was actually simply a gift or transaction between friends and family. This also allowed the seller to avoid paying a PayPal fee on the money. At whose suggestion was it that you paid in this way?       I don't say that you definitely have been scammed, but it doesn't look very good. This is how it might have happened: after you agreed to take the transaction off-site, so you lost the protection of the established system – and the seller avoided the commission and also avoided the sales site knowing that they had sold their item, you then agreed to pay the seller some money – but not for a purchase – simply as a gift. This has two consequences. Firstly, the seller avoids a PayPal fee and secondly, because PayPal has been misled as to the purpose of the payment, you lose the protection of PayPal if it turns out that you've been scammed or there is some other problem with the transaction. The seller then apparently sent you the parcel and they sent you pictures of a package with your address on it. Separately they sent you a Hermes tracking number – but there is no evidence that the package was actually posted to your address. The seller might simply have taken a picture with your address and sent that to you by way of reassurance – and then changed the label and posted the parcel to themselves but sent you a tracking number which is inaccessible to you and in respect of which you will be prevented from getting any information. All you've seen is a parcel with your address on it. All you've been given is a tracking number which satisfied you for a while until the parcel did not arrive and then when you started to make enquiries, you found that you were unable to access any details referring to the tracking number. Of course the tracking number says that the item was delivered – because maybe it was – but in that case it was delivered to the address on the parcel which might have been the seller's own address – or the address of a friend. I don't want to say that this is definitely how it happened, but it is a plausible scenario. Of course Hermes is an awful lot of parcels – but on the other hand I expect that most of the parcel is that going to Hermes hands are delivered successfully. We only get the bad stories on this forum. I can imagine that Hermes rate of successful deliveries is better than 97% because otherwise people wouldn't simply just hate them, they would go out of business.   We can help you bring a complaint against Hermes if you want. However, on the basis of what you say, the odds are stacked against you but it would be useful to try and find out the address which was associated with tracking number. As far as your apparent willingness to travel hundred and 50 miles to ask for your money back, don't bother. If you did actually go there, are you sure that the seller actually lives at the address that you have been given? What evidence do you have that? Of course if you found that the seller didn't reside at that address then it is slamdunk that you have been scammed. But then what are you going to do? You can try to inform the police but of course it won't get you anywhere. You can inform the sales website – but they will say that you brought it on yourself because you agreed to go off-site. You can inform PayPal – that they will say that because you sent the money which was calculated to avoid their fees, you have lost the protection. If you travelled the 150 miles and found that the seller did reside at that address, do you really think that they are going to hand your money over to you? If they are acting dishonestly then they will simply say that it is nothing to do with them, that they addressed it all correctly and they don't understand what has happened and that this is simply Hermes up to their old tricks. What are you going to do? You simply risk getting into a very nasty argument and depending on how bad it went, you might even find that the police are called and I'm afraid that they would be looking at you – not the seller. Maybe you can answer the questions that I've post above as to who it is who initiated the various ways of doing business.    
    • The legal campaign's going well then. The recount in Wisconsin gave Trump more votes but Biden even more, at a cost of $3m. And a donor to the organisation bringing the failed cases is suing to get his $2.5m back.   https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/28/joe-biden-gains-votes-in-wisconsin-county-after-trump-ordered-recount
    • Yes Unicorn feed tax again, can't sue the keeper for more than the Original Charge, so any additional Debt Collection fees aka the £60 they add is abuse,iof process as per HHJ Harvey at Lewes county Court What lookedinfroinfo is indicating is that the main signage on entry and dotted around is merely an " Invitation to Treat", not the offer, the Offer and Acceptance occurs at the payment machine, so wording there is key.
    • Hello and welcome to CAG.   People will be along later to advise you, please bear with us until they're able to get here.   In the meantime, I suggest you edit your attachment because you've left your name on it. Please check it carefully and remove anything that can identify you.   HB
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Hi,

 

First a little background about me. I am in my early 20s and unemployed but NOT claiming jobseekers employment. I am living with my parents and do make a little money on the internet but not enough for it to be taxable.

 

I took out my first wonga loan in November of £275 and it was due in December. I took the extension of about a week from my promised date as due to christmas I was stretched but then repaid everything in full along with the interest - around £360 - within that extension period of 1 week or so.

 

I again took a £475 loan from them in January, and it is due within the week. Like my last loan, I wanted to "extend" this as well since I can pay around £200 to them now and the rest within the month. I went online and clicked the "extend" button but was unable to extend my loan as the site didn't offer me an extension. I then sent them an email stating that I would be able to pay £200 now (if I could extend like last time - I would have paid around £130 only now and the rest later), and asked for an extension since I paid my last loan in full as well. I told them to be understanding as I don't want my credit report to say "defaulted", and to this affect I was willing to pay £200 now and the rest within the month like last time. However, I have just received an email from their collections team that I need to fill out a FinancialAssessment form.

 

Once you complete the income and expenditure form, you’ll be given an opportunity to propose the repayments you can reasonably make. If, from the information you’ve provided, these payments are [acceptable/reasonable], your repayment plan will be set up within seconds. If not, we’ll suggest reasonable repayments using the information you’ve provided, which you’ll be able to confirm by responding to our email {or however we will contact them}. We’ll only be able to suspend interest and charges, and stop attempts to collect payment for all or some of the outstanding balance, once you’ve successfully set up a repayment plan.

 

Please note: interest, charges and attempts to collect payment for all or some of the outstanding balance will only be suspended once you’ve successfully set up a repayment plan.

However, I am worried about the below:

 

If you do arrange to repay your loan over a longer period of time, which takes your loan past it's promise date, this will have a detrimental effect on your both your trust rating and credit score.

I would rather have an extension where I am paying extra interest than have my credit score saying completely in default. If I pay £300 now, that will ensure that I wont be paying hefty sums again at the end of the month as some principal will be reduced. (Currently I am required to pay around £600 by the end of the week).

 

Please advise on how to approach them and what to do?

 

PS - The best I can stretch to is £300 (if i ask friends) but I cant go over that atm. So any help is appreciated.

Edited by kriket1
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I would also appreciate it if someone can reply today as I need to send them an email tonight so that I receive a written reply before the promised date.

 

(Its a bit short notice but such is the nature of this payday loan spiral we are stuck in).

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Hi kriket1 welcome to CAG!

 

Now with wonga, they are currently under investigation by the OFT. Ignore their demands for a I&E form where they say they will decide a repayment plan. It's total rubbish. A repayment plan is to be made around YOUR finances at a rate YOU can reasonably afford. Not whatever amount they try and say. Regarding an extension, i would strongly advise against it. It is wasted money and basically a con for you to pay the PDL money for them doing absolutely nothing. Seriously. It's like paying a school yard bully to leave you alone for a few weeks. The money goes right into their pockets and doesnt come off the debt.

 

You could pay £300 but from our experience with wonga, it would mean absolutely nothing at all. They would still chase you and threaten to wreck your credit score, get DCA's involved etc etc. It's just how they work.

 

 

What you can do, is instead of their silly I&E form, work out a simplified budget summary and tell them thats how much they get. The tricky part for you is that you are unemployed but not claiming benefits. If you were on JSA, you could tell them that they will get £1 a month and theres nothing they can do about it. They would be very silly if they started to add charges/interest on it while you are on JSA.

 

Whatever you decide to do, its pretty much guaranteed wonga will mark your credit record. It's just what they do, and sadly they have a right to do it as well as you did default on the loan. The upside is if they do mark your file, if a repayment plan is in place, they must mark it "arrangement to pay". This looks a lot better than a simple default or a ton of late markers.

 

 

Have a good read of the payday loan forums. There is some really good advise in multiple threads. If you still need help, feel free to come back and we can help more.

Edited by renegadeimp
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Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

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Appreciate the help.

 

I was hoping to send them an email asking for an extention period (just like they usually offer on the website and they did allow me that period of 1 month last time and i had to pay interest on that period as well, which i did). So maybe since they know that I have repaid in the past within that extension period, they will allow me more time and charge me interest on that.

 

So if I pay them £300 now, then I will only have to pay £400 or so even if they charge interest for the extension period.

 

I would pay the extra interest (like i did last time) if it means they wont mark my credit record.

 

Any idea on how to get the above done?

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Thats the thing. There is no guarantee they wont mark it. even if you get it in writing.

 

You can pay it if you want, and rollover the loan, but again, i would have to strongly advise against it, due to it being wasted money.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

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Gosh. I have dug a pit for myself here it seems. So even if I pay them back they will mark my credit report. I always try to honor my debts and have done so in the past. But if they are going to mark my file even if I pay them, then what choice do I have. Defaulting on £100 is the same as defaulting on £10000 it seems. I dont want to go this route though. Maybe I can borrow from another payday company for the month and pay wonga back as i still have a few days left until the promise date. Bloody mess.

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I also dont want them calling my landline and chasing "debts" since I live with my family and its really their landline number. Hence, I wanted to get the extension like last time and pay all their charges (admin fees, 5-min transfer fees, etc) on top of the interests. Do u think if i forced them to accept MY repayment plan, they will bother my family/friends? Usually I stress they only contact me via email or mobile.

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Nah you havent dug yourself a pit. You still have room to negotiate. You could write to them and ask if they would consider a repayment plan at £xx a week/month with a initial payment of £xxx. This repayment plan will only be started if they agree to not mark your credit file.

 

Make sure you send them a simplified budget summary so they can see that your finances wont allow you to pay more.

 

See what they say to it.

 

 

Regarding phone calls, use this: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?493-Harassment-by-telephone-response-letter edit to suit. Wonga are actually one of the better PDL's for complying with legal instructions.

 

Regarding their charges, if you get any added to the amount you owe, provide us with a breakdown and we can tell you which are unenforceable/unlawful and which they can legally issue.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Nah you havent dug yourself a pit. You still have room to negotiate. You could write to them and ask if they would consider a repayment plan at £xx a week/month with a initial payment of £xxx. This repayment plan will only be started if they agree to not mark your credit file.

 

Make sure you send them a simplified budget summary so they can see that your finances wont allow you to pay more.

 

See what they say to it.

If they agree not to mark my credit record, I will pay them fully over the coming months. Thats not a problem at all. The problem is - like you said - they could still mark my credit report even if in the email they reply that they won't. Then I would end up paying them a lot and still leave with a default on my credit record.

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I understand, but you need to negotiate that they wont mark your credit file AND you need to get that in writing. Dont start paying money like you are thinking, without confirmation. The rollover fee, as ive said, is more-so a con than anything else, it is also similar to blackmail... " Pay us this amount to rollover the loan, and we'll leave you alone and wont mark your credit record for a month."

 

See where im going with this? However, if you get them to agree they wont mark it by paying them a substantial amount and they agree to a plan, you MUST get confirmation in writing before you send that money.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Understood. In fact, I had already sent an email along those lines and they replied with "Income and Expenditure" form. Hence, i posted my thread here.

 

I hope they wont come back and ask me to fill that I&E form again.

 

I will ask them to give me assurance about credit record in writing and try to work out a repayment plan. Will the following be ok?

Amount borrowed: £475

Interest: £130

Total debt: £605

Repayment plan at £200 a month with an initial payment of £205.

This plan will ensure that I pay back fully within the next two months.

 

I have already honored previous loans with them and hopefully they will take that into account.

 

 

ALSO,

in the simplified budget summary, I will be saying that i am living with parents (hopefully they wont bother my family) and that I am unemployed (actually i am actively seeking employment and went to a few interviews via recruitment agencies over the last month and am hoping to get employed this month - fingers crossed). Should I mention this?

 

Income = £0

Expenditure = £0

 

TBH, that sums it up pretty much. I am just going to interviews while living off of my parents. But that is not going to bode well with wonga.

 

If its not too much to ask, could you tell me whether such a simplied, yet seemingly difficult-to-deal-with, budget report would be the way to go. Or should I not mention anything about job interviews, etc. What if they reply that I won't be able to pay them back in the future if my circumstances dont change. (they have a valid point but i did pay them back last time and sreading the payments is easier than paying a lump sum).

Edited by kriket1
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Tell them to screw their I&E form, unless you want to fill it in. A simple budget summary signed as a true record of fact is more than enough.

 

Can i ask if you can afford the £200 monthly without leaving yourself in further hardship? Just remember, if you get the repayment plan agreed, and you fail to keep to it, they wont take it very well, and will start marking your file and getting DCA's involved etc.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Can i ask if you can afford the £200 monthly without leaving yourself in further hardship? Just remember, if you get the repayment plan agreed, and you fail to keep to it, they wont take it very well, and will start marking your file and getting DCA's involved etc.

Like i said above I am hoping to get a job but you are right in that I will find it hard to pay them back if I dont get employed. But if I reduce the monthly repayment amounts, I believe it carries more risk of being rejected. Than what would I do? Ideally, I would want to pay them a little less than £200/month (say £100/month so even if i do encounter some problems, I would still be able to pay at least £100 without a problem - i can raise £50 from a friend, etc while i find work. Raising £200 is much difficult). But I also dont want then to reply that they wont accept my repayment plan and will leave a mark on my credit report.

 

I understand what u have said that they will have no choice but to accept my plan as my circumstances dictate the plan, but I am still a little scared about them rejecting it outright and going their hard way (ie debt collectors, mark on credit report, even if they get no money from me).

 

So u think they will accept the £100/month or even £50/month plan given that my income is 0, and not leave a mark on my record. I doubt it and hence i proposed the repayment plan i actually might find hard to honor (even though I am 99% sure I wont but there is still a chance that i will only be able to pay £100 and not £200/m).

 

 

PS - apologise for the long replies but you really are saving my life here. I just want to get into employment and leave all this behind me. But jobs are hard to come by and hence i had to take this route in the first place.

Edited by kriket1
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It does carry a risk of being rejected, but it carries much more of a risk if you fail to meet the repayments you proposed. You can of course say your situation has worsened and you have to drop payments for a time, but this usually means the creditor will mark your file.

 

Just understand that you will default on the loan and cant pay it back as agreed so they can mark your file. I very much doubt they will issue a Default Notice though unless its a few months after the missed payments. Normally they simply mark it with a late payment marker. Then after 2 months or so they will issue a DN telling you what to do before a Default is entered onto the file.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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i see. So from experience do you think that on the initial loan of £475 and total debt of £610, they will accept a repayment plan of £100/month with £200 initial payment and not mark me credit record? Where will I stand if they dont accept it? Offer £200/m (even though I am actually carrying some risk here of defaulting on even the repayment plan - not a big risk but risk notheless, and as you point out that could mean more trouble than now).

 

If they do accept the £100/month plan, it would be brilliant as I will be able to follow through completely (they know I am not just saying that as i did make past payments). And I might just get into employment and even be able to pay them early.

 

ALSO,

you ddnt answer whether I should tell them about seeking employment actively, etc, etc. Or should I just keep it brief and just send a simple "unemployed" budget report?

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THe best way to see if they will agree to a repayment plan, is to simply ask them. I hate to say this, but wonga are one of the better PDL's when it comes to agreeing a repayment plan.

 

With the employment thing, it is up to you if you want to tell them. Just make sure that you say you are willing to update them every 4-8 weeks or something so you can advise them of any change of circumstances and increase repayments.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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THe best way to see if they will agree to a repayment plan, is to simply ask them. I hate to say this, but wonga are one of the better PDL's when it comes to agreeing a repayment plan.

 

With the employment thing, it is up to you if you want to tell them. Just make sure that you say you are willing to update them every 4-8 weeks or something so you can advise them of any change of circumstances and increase repayments.

 

Brilliant advise. Will do.

 

I know people just say it on forums and dont mean it but I will update you on the reply i get from them and if, no, WHEN I get my life sorted, I will donate to CAG and personally come back and thank you (renegadeimp) by buying you a virtual beer as the americans say and contribute to the forums.

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Hi kriket1

 

If you arrange a repayment plan with wonga they will mark your credit report as "payment arrangement". This is nearly as worse as default for your score.

 

To take out a payday loan from another company to pay wonga and protect your credit rating is not a good idea I think. This is exactly what I did three years ago and it ended up with paying 30000 pounds for a 100 pound loan in the end.

 

Wonga will mark default in your credit file only if you are 90 days behind. So I think in your case the best option might be to ignore them for now, so they do not put you on a repayment plan. In about one month they will send you an email then from clearmybalance@wonga.com with a link where they offer you a discount of 20-30 percent if you pay in full. Use this then to pay and you have probably nothing on your credit file or only a marker "1 month late"' which is far better than "payment arrangement" for the score.

 

FYI - the reason why you could not exten it he first place is that due to the new guidelines they do not rollover that many times any more. To avoid this, pay in full on payday and immediately reloan, though I do not advise to use them at all obviously.

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24/7 Moneybox: 195.00 - Oustanding: 0.00

British Pearl/Spondoolies: 752.10 - Oustanding: 0.00

Cash on go/Peachy: 206.30 - Oustanding: 0.00

EarlyPayday: 325.00 - Oustanding: 0.00

Lending Stream: 1398.46 - Oustanding: 0.00

MicroLend: 780.00 - Oustanding: 0.00

Minicredit: 520.00 - Oustanding: 0.00

MonthEndMoney/PaydayUK: 937.50 - Oustanding: 0.00

MrLender: 715.00 - Oustanding: 0.00

Pounds2Pocket: 2328.00 - Oustanding: 0.00

QuickQuid: 1800.00 - Oustanding: 0.00

SafeLoans: 450.50 - Oustanding: 0.00

Speed-E-Loans: 516.00 - Oustanding: 0.00

SwiftSterling: 1295.00 - Oustanding: 0.00

Toothfairy Finance: 544.00 - Oustanding: 0.00

TxtLoan: 450.00 - Oustanding: 0.00

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Wonga: 1336.86 - Oustanding: 0.00

Total: 15220.52 - Oustanding: 0.00

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Hi,

 

Really appreciate your help and reply in the thread.

 

Unfortunately I have already sent the email. I had to contact them early to ensure that I receive a reply before the promise day. In hindsight, it was hasty but this is my first time "defaulting" on a payday loan and I wanted to be safe than sorry.

 

So since I have already sent a repayment plan, what should I do now?

Could I now igonre their reply to my email and deal with them in a month from now with a late payment?

How will this fare now that I have actually told them about my "changed" circumstances. (ie actively seeking employment, will update every few weeks and will pay an initial sum and then a monthly payment).

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Lets wait and see what wonga say first. Then we can advise on what to do next.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Lets wait and see what wonga say first. Then we can advise on what to do next.

Sure. But if late payment looks "better" than "payment arrangement", then obviously we have to take that into account. Besides, renegade, you had a point too. What if late payment kept accruing interest as well? Besides I will have to pay £605 then, when realisticlly I will only have about £500 or so. However, if late payment won't be as big of an issue, then I will find another £100 from somewhere and hence is the road I am inclined to take. Besides, I could have always areed to a repayment plan when I recieve an email email from them after the month, and got them to agree on credit record marking, etc.

 

I didnt know that they could put other things in the credit report which could "imply" a default. I just asked them to send me in writing (email), that they won't mark my credit report with a default notice if they agree on the repayment plan. But this still doesnt prevent them from marking it with "payment arrangement".

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It will accrue interest, but it will be added unlawfully and in direct violation of the OFT guidance on Debt Collection.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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It will accrue interest, but it will be added unlawfully and in direct violation of the OFT guidance on Debt Collection.

 

well, in that case, I won't be able to even offer a repayment plan then as the intrest would have compounded out of anyone's reach let alone mine. So then, it would obv be marked as a default. Am I right?

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You dont have to pay the interest if its unlawful or added unfairly. If a default is the end result of this, and the default is added purely because of the unfair charges, then you can contest it.

 

Just remember, it is entirely up to the lender if they mark your file, thats why you have to negotiate. You did or are going to miss the agreed repayment date, and future others, choosing to ask for a repayment plan. A creditor is well within their rights to mark your file with late payment markers, or if you leave it long enough, a full on default. But if there is a repayment plan in place, they can mark it arrangement to pay, or forgo marking the file at all.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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You dont have to pay the interest if its unlawful or added unfairly. If a default is the end result of this, and the default is added purely because of the unfair charges, then you can contest it.

You are right. Its best to just wait and see what they say. And then act accordingly. I will post here for your advise, as soon as i receive their email. Thanks for the help so far. And thx PDLvictim for the enlightening info.

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