halifax mortgage repossession order - Court on Friday

[scousebird]

Halifax mortgage. never missed payments until last year.

 

my deal allowed for a repayment holiday.

 

went into branch explained in difficulties, was given 3 months 'off'. may, june, july.

 

my situation hadnt improved so then missed August.

 

Saw their field agent [charged for] who took full statement of particulars etc; and i asked for help via interest only option.

 

i made the payment for September.

 

Eventually got letter confirming a reduced payment for oct, nov, dec.

 

i took this for an interest only due to the figure offered. however struggled so hence the reason for Court possession hearing.

 

based on their Court papers and then Witness statement,

i have communicated via email with the solicitor stating i dispute the amount claimed

[they have included the 3 months holiday and also the full amount rather than interest only amount for the oct-dec].

plus they state they dont know my circumstances etc, yet they have the field agents report, so they were inaccurate in their claim.

 

i also stated that i felt their 3 month interest only offer was short sighted and not dealing with my request for long term help;

as discussed with the field agent.

 

additionally i was getting arrears letters and new payment amount letters during the oct-dec [harassment?].

 

i asked for the arrears to be added onto the mortgage [plenty of equity] and an interest only option for 2 years to allow me time to get back on my feet. they said no.

 

they now say the 3 months holiday was just an 'arrangement' and not a formal payment holiday

and the reduced payment was not an interest only option, just a reduced payment arrangement.

hence how they have arrived at an arrears figure of c£6k based on the full monthly amounts,

where I calculate it at approx £3k based on the holiday and reduced agreed amounts.

 

their own criteria as i have now found out is that they can offer such a facility, interest only, but only if 6 months of full regular payments have been received.,

and only after another income/expediture provided.

 

 

i have stated they have one from end august, paid for, and nothing has changed !! hence why i am in this financial position and asking for help.

 

i then asked if i was to make 6 months payment at the full amount, knowing that financially it will be a burden,

would i then be allowed to drop to interest only for 2 years and the arrears added onto the term.

 

the response from the solicitors was that they would accept that proposal, but ask for a suspended possession order and also want a full inc/exp before confirming acceptance.

BUT for any interest only and arrears consolidation i would have to discuss direct with Halifax.!! [they are on a direct computer link with halifax/BoS].

 

Additionally in their witness statement they state they have followed protocol to assist blah blah blah, including offering reduced payments and consolidation of arrears.

 

I have replied stating that i am unhappy as there is no guarantee after financially struggling for the 6 months to comply with their own criteria for qualification for an interest only mortgage, they will be any more helpful than at present [words of that effect] due to their lack of flexibility.

 

Also they have NOT offered consolidation of arrears, as they claim, even after my requesting it through my own proposal.

 

Therefore i have advised them that the more sensible proposal is that which i originally asked for,

2yrs interest only with arrears consolidated/added to term., as that is a more financially viable, sensible and sound option and I will be attending Court to reiterate that offer.

 

So.......... if you got this far !!!

i have no faith in the court system [even longer story] to the point they make me physically sick but obviously have to go on friday.

all my emails were marked without prejudice and i also referred to my right to produce/use as evidence in Court.

 

Tomorrow i will print out [x2] copies of all my emails etc and create my own witness bundle and hand deliver to the Court so that the judge has it on file - i will email copy the solicitors also.

 

If any thoughts or advices as to any case law i can refer to etc etc, i would be grateful for.......

sorry so long winded but just decided to share this worry.......... THANKS !!

[citizenB]

I will alert the site team for you. It will probably be tomorrow now before anyone can look in on you.

[scousebird]

thats great thanks......... i know ive left it late but just was minded to stick head in sand and kiss a..e goodbye...

had a rough year and this is just the cherry on the cake !!

next week the stat demand 14 days runs out... so will deal with that after Friday !!

[Ell-enn]

Have you sent in a defence statement to the court i.e. completed the N11M form and returned to the court ?

[scousebird]

no. no formal defence.

all communication direct with solicitors; with caveat to be used at court etc.

 

intend to take copies of all papers and submit to court prior to hearing.

[Ell-enn]

Have a look at this guide http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?325527-CAG-guide-Are-you-facing-eviction-or-repossession you will find examples of how to construct the statement you need to hand in to court.

[Lea_HTH]

You can reiterate your offer, but they are not obliged to accept, and the court have no jurisdiction to impose the change on them. I realise that is not what you are likely to want to hear, but that is the position you face. You may find you have a judge who orders the current instalment only for the next six months, with a review thereafter, and at that point you can ask again for the consolidation and interest only (which is what you're hoping for), but as indicated, a judge has no jurisdiction to impose this on the lender.

 

The court is usually only interested in whether you can pay the CMI plus something towards the arrears to clear them before the end of the loan term. If there is substantial equity in the property (minimum 50k or so), then a judge may be prepared to allow CMI only payments for a period of time. There is a likelihood this will be done on a suspended possession order basis - though I would expect a judge to adjourn if there is going to be a review, but you can never tell what a judge will do until he/she does it.

 

I would suggest that your mortgagee is being a bit unreasonable in the sense that you are stating quite clearly that you can manage to pay the CMI if it was interest only - would you then be in a position to pay something towards the arrears too? Possession is supposed to be a last resort, so I would draw the omission of the interest only to the judge's attention and state that as they have refused this, their action is unjust and unfair as possession is not being used as a last resort in these circumstances. I have had success with this stance in court - but it has to be pointed out to the judge as his initial thought will be along the can you pay CMI plus something to arrears route.

 

There is no case law you can use to push the point you have put forward - the issues you refer to are contractual, and unless they are unfair terms (they're not), a judge cannot rule on them.

[scousebird]

thanks for all the help. i think the best part of what you have said Lea is that of "you never can tell what a judge is going to do..."

 

thats my worry, as unfortunately i have bad experiences of courts and how they let people down.... common sense sometimes does not prevail...

 

fingers crossed.

[Lea_HTH]

It's not a matter of 'common sense'

- the judge has to apply the law, if people see that as having been 'let down', that is their interpretation of it. The judge cannot do what the law won't allow him to do.

[scousebird]

i agree with that.. the judge has to apply the law.

sadly though my experience has been that the law gets stretched, or its interpretation. I appreciate this does not apply to everyone.

however my experience has been when the law has been laid down, and then ignored/abused and voiced as 'you are in contempt' and then the offender is still allowed to abuse the law, even though told/advised/threatened with jail - and then goes on with threats to kill in front of court witnesses, and still not held accountable - by the laws that the judge keeps using [this happening over a period of court visits] then sadly i have little faith.

my appreciation goes more to the poor policemen who keep trying to help the people who the law/judges let down....

 

obviously my MR JUDGE who will be residing at a court at 11am friday morning........ will apply the law and common sense, and see that indeed the lender has failed to follow his own criteria before embarking on a 'last resort' action and make a judgement in favour of the man on the street rather than the big high street lenders - and therefore all my above comments are not directed at that MR JUDGE personally....

 

so, fingers crossed !

[citizenB]

Best of luck tomorrow - please do update the thread

[scousebird]

well.... where do i start.!

all i will say is that i think the judge had a hot date to get to and that he hadnt bothered to read my defence; which referred to the case law referring to the fact that arrears do not have to be paid back within a 'certain' time frame - as he completely contradicted that

so, as i pressed the fact lender had not compliied with the protocol, not offering capitalisation of arrears, and had gone for a possession order which is seen as a last resort option.

judge has ordered 28 days for the lender to comply with protocol.....

so basically 28 days stay of execution.

[citizenB]

Phew.. well that is a bit of a relief.

 

Now I guess you need to get all your paperwork together and lets see what the Lender does in respect of the order.

[scousebird]

i have emailed the solicitor, stating the adjournment.

[1] i have proposed an interest only, with payment amount towards arrears OR [2] interest only with arrears capitalised.

option [1] works out more expensive for me; but either option is cheaper that a full repayment option which is almost double.

to back up option 1, i have also been into branch and paid that figure into my mortgage account to reinforce the offer.

 

fingers crossed.

[scousebird]

quick update..

solicitor said they werent in a position to discuss any payment offers/proposals. needed to speak with lender direct.

phoned a direct number provided and got a lovely lady who said she wasnt in a position to formally help and i needed a different dept; transferred to a nice man !!

he said that there had been some calcs put onto my case that were more a repayment plan, but what was it i wanted to propose. so i said interest only, with perhaps a small addition to show willing to the arrears. he went through my income/expenditure and agreed that i needed to get some help. he reiterated they couldnt do a lengthy interest only, they worked in 6month units and then reviewed.

so i am now on a formally agreed 6 month plan interest only; with some extra to show willing. WHY didnt they do all that before court??

got a letter that didnt exactly confirm the deal, so had to phone to double check and they confirmed the deal in place [so once again their paper trail not marvellous]

 

THEN i got a letter from the complaints department about my unhappiness etc; i can only assume the solictors had passed on my defence. the writer acknowledged in part my issues and agreed to reduce the arrears calculation as perhaps they hadnt 'explained' the arrangement correctly due to me assuming it was actually payment holiday under the terms of my mortgage deal. So that was a nice surprise bonus.

 

obviously as the Court upheld my defence that they had not followed proceedure before coming to court; the lender had better not try to charge me court fees etc., but thats an argument for another day !!

 

thanks everyone for their help/support.

[scousebird]

i got into major financial difficulties generally.

 

defaulted on mortgage,

incurred arrears [they tried to repossess but i proved they hadnt followed procedure so thrown out of court and they removed all fees charges in connection with court case and gave me an apology payment!].

lender let me do interest only, but 6 monthly slots.

 

 

after 1st 6mths they insisted i pay interest plus a bit more towards arrears.

overall they have let me do x3 lots of 6months, saying that definitely NO more interest only options after this.

 

therefore they will want full repayment and interest monthly figure [plus something towards arrears] at this next review.

[i have asked about arrears being added to mortgage but they dragging heels on this].

 

i have my house up for sale [since november last year, but no offers].

 

if i have to pay full repayment then i will fail on other court agreed debt plans etc; default on council tax payplans etc.

 

 

as i cant rob peter to pay paul any more, and over all end up no better off for slogging along these last 2yrs.

 

my question is this:

can a lender INSIST on a full repayment etc and remove an interest only scheme

- if it ended back up in court would a judge say they have been unreasonable as i have made regular monthly interest only plus a bit extra payments?

 

thanks in advance.

[citizenB]

How long have you left on your mortgage contract ?

 

And who is the mortgage company?

[scousebird]

my mortgage contract has ended so i am out of a 'deal'

halifax

i asked them to look at a longer term interest only option rather than having to keep renewing/updating but they wouldnt do that.

they are aware i am trying to sell [whether they have noted it though i dont know].

[citizenB]

Aha.. righto.. I have left a message for someone to look in on you

[scousebird]

help....?

just to update you - i have made the interest only payment [plus smidgen towards arrears] for this month, as per the 'expired' 6mth plan; whilst waiting for help.

i technically should phone the lender to now agree to a full repayment scheme - or fight for another interest only help plan.

they have written saying what my minimum payment is [this is interest only without the smidgen extra] and the arrears balance............. and if i dont pay the arrears in full they will send an agent, poss court etc etc add charges.

[for the record, part of the reason they lost last time at court was they hadnt followed their own published procedure of help; ie capitalisation of arrears - along with some other stuff].

i am in the process of getting help from Stepchange to formally ask some creditors to take reduced payments, but this takes time too...]

i just want some advice about what to say if i ring them/write to them................ dont want to look as if avoiding their letters.

THANKS

[scousebird]

@bazooka boo

sorry to hijack.... but can you advise how its ok to reclaim fees?

Similar situation. O/d £3500. Halifax charges average 100pm based on their account terms ie daily rate. I have self managed debt plans but need to tackle halifax as cant afford these fees. Am about to ask them to freeze charges but didnt think could ask for refund as well as these are their t&cs for having account.?

Thx.

[Bazooka Boo]

If you are in financial difficulty, then use the 'Hardship rules' to reclaim their fees/charges on the account, http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?387436-Letter-for-consideration-regarding-Hardship-or-Financial-Difficulty%281-Viewing%29-nbsp

[scousebird]

If you are in financial difficulty, then use the 'Hardship rules' to reclaim their fees/charges on the account, http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?387436-Letter-for-consideration-regarding-Hardship-or-Financial-Difficulty%281-Viewing%29-nbsp

Well its worth a try. Technically hardup for over 3yrs but can certainly substantiate for last 2.. as my mortgage is with them and had reduced payments interest only etc so they are aware.... plus a loan thats defaulted and no payments for 3 yrs....

I would be happy if they go back 3yrs as would pay off o/d !!!

Thanks.