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PPC issue Claimform for parking in disabled bay without blue badge.


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Hello,

 

RK has a PPC taking them to court, all initial correspondance was ignored until court papers dropped on the mat of the RK.

 

The infringement is vehicle using disabled bay without blue badge however passengers in the vehicle were disabled.

 

A defence has been suggested to submit re: HMRC v VCS as it is unlikely PPC has it in contract permission to prosecute on landowners behalf.

 

No evidence (cctv or otherwise) has been seen by defendant yet so no proof of driver etc. No admittance of who was driving has been made by RK.

 

RK is slightly concerned due to lack of experience in county court, not sure how to present case, not sure if the defence submitted is enough evidence to have claim struck out.

 

Advice would be helpful and any points of law or suggestions to add to defence is appreciated.

 

Thankyou :)

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Urm..

 

they cant win on private land with that infringement

blue badges mean NOTHING in law on a private carparks

neither do aNY road/bay markings

they are PURELY Graffitti

 

are you SURE this IS a PPC and a private car park not a PPC on a council controlled one?

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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scan up the claim form please

 

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets - as a picture[jpg] file

don't forget you can use a mobile phone or a digital camera too!!

'

BUT......

ENSURE: remove all pers info inc. barcodes etc using paint program

but leave all figures and dates. {DO NOT USE A BIRO OR PEN OR USE SEE THRU TAPE OR LABELS]

DO NOT USE ANY PDF EDITOR TO BLANK STUFF, THAT CAN BE REMOVED

DO IT IN PAINT.EXE or any photo editing program

convert existing PC files to PDF [office has an installable print to PDF option]

..

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites [http://docupub.com/pdfconvert/]

it would be better to upload a multipage pdf if

you have many images too rather than many single pdfs

.

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

try and logically name your file so people know what it is.

i'e Default notice dd-mm-yyyy

.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

.

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Urm..

 

they cant win on private land with that infringement

blue badges mean NOTHING in law on a private carparks

neither do aNY road/bay markings

they are PURELY Graffitti

 

are you SURE this IS a PPC and a private car park not a PPC on a council controlled one?

 

dx

 

Hi and thanks for replying, yes this definately private car park 100%.

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It has been confirmed as a genuine court doc issued by CCBC Northampton. The process is in at stage 2 which has a time limit and is why help has been sought here.

 

The documents held can be altered in paint and uploaded later, I believe you would like to see the claim form & allocation questionnaire is that correct?

 

P

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The forms are only valid if they have the stamp/seal of CCBC Northampton. If they do, yes, please depersonalise it and load it here.

 

It is not unknown for PPCs to send out Court documents, filled with your and their details but not bearing the Court's stamp/seal - in a further attempt to frighten money from you.

Without that seal it is not valid - except as evidence of the PPC's offence of using Copyright Court Forms for other purposes.

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The forms are only valid if they have the stamp/seal of CCBC Northampton. If they do, yes, please depersonalise it and load it here.

 

It is not unknown for PPCs to send out Court documents, filled with your and their details but not bearing the Court's stamp/seal - in a further attempt to frighten money from you.

Without that seal it is not valid - except as evidence of the PPC's offence of using Copyright Court Forms for other purposes.

 

It is definately a court document and stamped too, also checked with the court via phone call. Will upload later de personalised as never know who is watching these forums.

 

Appreciate the help.

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You have a timeline to adhere to

 

Issue date + 5 days for service + 14 days to acknowledge + 14 to submit defence.

 

I am a bit concerned that you say you have the Allocation Questionairre as well as this would only be sent out once the defence had been accepted and the claim moved to a local court !

 

So yes, sight of the documents would be much appreciated.

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Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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The forms are only valid if they have the stamp/seal of CCBC Northampton. If they do, yes, please depersonalise it and load it here.

 

It is not unknown for PPCs to send out Court documents, filled with your and their details but not bearing the Court's stamp/seal - in a further attempt to frighten money from you.

Without that seal it is not valid - except as evidence of the PPC's offence of using Copyright Court Forms for other purposes.

 

Have they ever been done for that?

I ask because in the few cases I've used, or been about to use, MCOL, I always do it, with a letter before action. Sometimes it works, other times I have to follow it up with a real one, but I never realised it was actually a criminal offence.

Do you have any more details as I don't want to be breaking the law myself.

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You have a timeline to adhere to

 

Issue date + 5 days for service + 14 days to acknowledge + 14 to submit defence.

 

I am a bit concerned that you say you have the Allocation Questionairre as well as this would only be sent out once the defence had been accepted and the claim moved to a local court !

 

So yes, sight of the documents would be much appreciated.

 

No defence has been submitted to the court, the acknowledgment was sent back to gain extra 14 days. Included with the ack. form was a cc to the court of a recent letter sent to the PPC this was to keep the court aware of correspondence between the defendant and PPC.

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Have they ever been done for that?

I ask because in the few cases I've used, or been about to use, MCOL, I always do it, with a letter before action. Sometimes it works, other times I have to follow it up with a real one, but I never realised it was actually a criminal offence.

Do you have any more details as I don't want to be breaking the law myself.

 

you should never be using a court MCOL form as a letter before action

thats just a letter!

 

before you send the claim form, you must register the claim.

 

its all on the web just search for it

pre-action protocols

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Surely there is no law compelling a person to display a BB a on private land? If it was on a sign doesn't the PPC have to prove that a contract existed for them to enforce any action. Did the RK appeal and also state who was driving at the time? If RK was not driver, I would think that PPC needs to show that a contract existed between a RK who was not present and the PPC.

I think the PPC are trying it on and hoping that a BB will not appear in court so that they can claim a win. Hopefully this will be fought all the way.

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yep as in post 2

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

No defence has been submitted to the court, the acknowledgment was sent back to gain extra 14 days. Included with the ack. form was a cc to the court of a recent letter sent to the PPC this was to keep the court aware of correspondence between the defendant and PPC.

 

If you have time, can I suggest you log on to your claim to ensure they have not treated your "letter" as a defence ? This has happened before. Have you used CPR 31.14 to obtain the information they have mentioned in their Particulars of Claim.

 

Have they ever been done for that?

I ask because in the few cases I've used, or been about to use, MCOL, I always do it, with a letter before action. Sometimes it works, other times I have to follow it up with a real one, but I never realised it was actually a criminal offence.

Do you have any more details as I don't want to be breaking the law myself.

 

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/protocol

 

Peanutgallery - above a link to the CPR - preaction protocol.

 

I think by enclosing a completed MCOL form - even if it does not have the court stamp could be construed as intimidation.

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

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Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Hi,

 

After seeing earlier post re: allocation quest. being issued there was contact made with the court, it was confirmed that the cc letter was entered as part of a defence!!

 

Person on telephone suggests that it is not to worry about and to send in defence as normal as all documents received marked defence will be treated as such, the cc letter was not marked defence so someone is not doing their job.

 

P

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Hi,

 

After seeing earlier post re: allocation quest. being issued there was contact made with the court, it was confirmed that the cc letter was entered as part of a defence!!

 

Person on telephone suggests that it is not to worry about and to send in defence as normal as all documents received marked defence will be treated as such, the cc letter was not marked defence so someone is not doing their job.

 

P

 

Hi, that is good you can still enter a proper defence.

 

This actually happened to me ! I sent in a letter advising that an extension had been agreed between the parties - it is the defendants duty to do this. The Letter was properly headed CPR15.5 and someone at Northampton entered it as a defence !!

 

This was why I was so concerned that your letter might have been accepted as your defence - I know from personal experience that it does happen !!

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2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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If you have time, can I suggest you log on to your claim to ensure they have not treated your "letter" as a defence ? This has happened before.

 

This will be attempted shortly

 

 

 

Have you used CPR 31.14 to obtain the information they have mentioned in their Particulars of Claim..

 

No never heard of this action to request, intriguing..

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Have you used CPR 31.14 to obtain the information they have mentioned in their Particulars of Claim..

 

No never heard of this action to request, intriguing..

 

CPR31.14 - 1st post in the link below

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?159445-Getting-Them-To-Reveal-Their-Vitals.-Using-CPR-31.14-to-Your-Advantage

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2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Well we have established that you sent a letter to the court that has effectively been accepted as your defence. Which is why you have the AQ.

 

You need to complete that and submit it to the court named on the AQ by the due date.

 

If you need any help completing it, then just shout.

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

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1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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In your supplementary defence which they have said you can submit - you need to answer each of the claims made on the Particular of Claim.

 

HTH

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

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Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

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2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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i cannot find anywhere where any site or laws or rules

state that a blue badge has ANY legal standing in any private carpark.

 

the blue badge scheme appears not to relate to it either.

 

on private land it means nothing.

 

some interesting comments:

 

Getting to Grips with Parking Law

 

Thursday, October 13th, 2011

Kelvin Reynolds, Director of Operations and Technical Services at the British Parking Association (BPA) looks at how parking concessions and the Blue Badge work on public and private land.

First let us remind ourselves that the Blue Badge scheme (originally introduced in 1970 and formerly described as ‘The Orange Badge Scheme) is intended to provide disabled motorists with concessions over parking controls on public roads; contrary to popular belief the scheme does not apply to any car parks whether they be operated by local councils or private companies.

 

AND

 

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/local-news/ebbw-vale/2011/11/10/blue-badge-holders-see-red-over-car-park-rule-changes-91466-29748556/

 

^^^^VERY INTERSTING LAST BIT^^

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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from this govt site we find this :

 

Most disabled persons' parking bays in off-street car parks, such as supermarket car parks, are not covered by blue badge scheme regulations. Such car parks and parking bays are likely to be privately owned and managed by the individual business: the agreement, and any cost to use them, will be between the owner and the motorist or customer.

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2007-03-06b.1386.0

 

I have considered proposals to extend the blue badge scheme on to private land and, for example, supermarket car parks. My main concern about an extension of that scheme is that many authorities already find it difficult to enforce the provision on public car parks. The Bill does not therefore include such proposals. Supermarkets and other car park owners who provide disabled places are, however, drinking in the last chance saloon: they need to act more effectively, or we will have to bring in more draconian legislation.

 

 

>..............................

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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DX the only reason that charges were introduced for BB holders in the Wales sceanrio was because Excel use ANPR to save costs and cannot tell if a vehicle has a BB.

 

Their contract is to manage parking but how can they be managing parking if they use ANPR and have no foot patrol.

 

In essence I suppose their contract with the landowner may not be binding as they are NOT managing parking, only determining the length of stay.

 

However we are straying away from the OP's thread.

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I think you may find that from the POC it says there was no response from the OP presumably,

therefore think they may have been trying for a Default Judgment and may run when a good Defence is mounted.

 

I hope that the OP is keeping a list of his time spent and any other expenses he has been put to as maybe a substantial counterclaim or similar may make them think again.

 

Brain obviously wasn't in gear when they set out on this path.

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