Wife used my monthly Train ticket and got caught - ** SETTLED **

[noveum]

"Criminal cases are now pretty much set by starting point plus or minus any aggrevating or mitigating circumstances and the early plea reduction."

 

Not sure I understand? Are you saying that in the court summons it would state - 'this is a criminal court hearing'?if it didnt then its assumed a by-law?

 

Even though we will plea guilty in the responding letter and probably had to again should we get a court summons, would we still need to attend court?

[dx100uk]

I think we should put some real perspective into this

 

If you are not able to convince FCC to allow an out of Court disposal, you could be facing two possible charges as mentioned previously

 

The maximum penalty upon conviction is the same, whether the charge is breach of Byelaw or 'Intent to avoid a fare', it is fine up to Level 3 on the standard scale, which in practice means £1000.

 

The Section 5 offence (intent to avoid a fare) is clearly the more serious and only for a second or subsequent offence may a Court consider a term of imprisonment. Put that out of your mind.

 

Now, let's assume worst case scenario, you are facing two charges and have no previous convictions. Let's assume they proceed with both charges.

 

The Magistrates, on conviction, will reduce the maximum fine because of it being a first offence to what is known as the 'entry level' and this is equal to the currently assessed average weekly wage. This is presently £400

 

You will plead guilty and so the Magistrates will give credit for your early guilty plea and will reduce the fine further accordingly. The usual reduction is around one third.

 

So, fine for 'intent to avoid a fare' = £400 less discount for guilty plea = Fine of £265. This is the one that carries a criminal conviction. (Band B on Magistrates sentencing guidelines)

 

Next, Fine for breach of Byelaw = half the fine for 'intent to avoid a fare' = £200 less discount for guilty plea = Fine of £130 ( Less serious = Band A on Magistrates sentencing guidelines)

 

Add £265 to £130 = total fines of £395

 

Prosecution costs may be awarded in full and will probably be around £150

 

Plus victim surcharge of £80

 

A worst case scenario total penalty of £625 plus the unpaid fare/s

 

 

This can vary a little according to the Magistrates discretion, but they do have to work to a set of guidelines issued by the Ministry of Justice and it will be in that order. Additionally, the prosecutor may claim higher costs for preparing two files

 

Of that total, all that FCC will get if they proceed to prosecution is their costs plus the unpaid fare

 

Any offer to the TOC should be reflective of their reasonably incurred costs in dealing with the matter and ought to offer some compensation too, for your fault in breaching the rules, but should not be ridiculously excessive.

 

I would write with a sincere apology, sticking to facts, but do make sure that you recognise the seriousness of the error of judgment and offer to pay all of their reasonably incurred costs and any outstanding fares in order to compensate the rail company fully when asking if the matter can be disposed of without court action.

 

thanks oj exactly what was needed

 

a realistic idea.

 

dx

[fletch70]

HB yes i was talking criminal but as has been suggested one of the allegations is a criminal one.

If that is not the case i apologise

[Old-CodJA]

HB yes i was talking criminal but as has been suggested one of the allegations is a criminal one.

If that is not the case i apologise

 

 

Both charges are heard in a criminal Court list

 

One is recordable and if convicted, results in a record that will appear on a basic CRB check. That is the Section 5 RoRA [1889] charge of 'intent to avoid a fare'

 

The other is a Byelaw offence, if convicted this will not appear on a basic CRB check

[Old-CodJA]

Thanks Old-Codja. When you put it like this, it is clear in my eyes that FCC should be happy to settle out of court? ...But i understand they sometimes need to flex their corporate legal arm?..

 

Just one thing though - you say "A worst case scenario total penalty of £625 plus the unpaid fare/s". But are you not missing ...'and a criminal conviction form the 1st charge?

 

I will be assisting my wife with the letter tomorrow to append to the form from FCC prosecution dept.

 

Within the letter; for this section: "offer to pay all of their reasonably incurred costs and any outstanding fares", do we offer and wait for them to respond with a figure or should i throw into the mix an amount we are willing to offer?

 

Yes, there is of course the criminal record in relation to the Section 5 charge, but what I was trying to do in that earlier explanation was put some real perspective into the financial penalty. In relation to the S.5 charge I did say "So, fine for 'intent to avoid a fare' = £400 less discount for guilty plea = Fine of £265. This is the one that carries a criminal conviction. (Band B on Magistrates sentencing guidelines)"

 

The record will exist if you are convicted, or if you plead guilty to that charge and it isn't possible to put a general financial value on that. For employments that do not require a high level of intergrity as a prerequisite, it need not be very damaging, but I recognise that you may have difficulty

 

That is why it is so important to word your offer to settle without Court action carefully

[noveum]

..and should it result in the criminal conviction, I assume this is never 'time spent' in todays current political climate?

 

I will think hard about my formal response to FCC now.

[noveum]

Letter of plea in the post.

Lets see what happens next from FCC.

 

Will keep you updated if/WHEN the letter comes back from FCC....

regards.

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

Fingers crossed, I hope it goes well for you. Please come back to us whatever the upshot, we like to hear the outcome and you could also help future caggers. Too many people don't come back and update their threads, as you may have found when you were a newbie.

 

My best, HB

[okonokos]

Hello noveum,

 

I have been in the same situation like this and have managed to settle the matter off the court. I got caught using my wife’s oyster student card on 25th Jan 2013, and got the first letter from TfL Enforcement Team 3 days after the event happened. I replied the letter the next day and haven’t received any feedback etc until 12th Feb, so I decided to call them. I told the officer, I want to settle the case without going to the court, and also explained, I have several conditions that initiate me to propose for off court settlement. The officer was very helpful and told me it is possible to settle the matter off the court because it is my first offence, and I have exceptional circumstances. Then, he told me what should I do next. The officer also mentioned that he can't guarantee a positive result but it is worth to try.

 

Now, I have to pay the £250 fine and sign a letter of warning and condition. For me, it is the best solution rather than having a criminal record. I suggest you can call them and talk to the officer. I wish you and your wife good luck for the case.

 

Hope this help, Regards

Edited February 15, 2013 by okonokos

[dx100uk]

thats a good result OK

 

well done

 

shows it can be resolved to mutual satisfaction

 

dx

[Grotesque]

...although having 'special conditions' and 'exceptional circumstances' seem to be critical in that case.

[noveum]

Hello noveum,

 

I have been in the same situation like this and have managed to settle the matter off the court. I got caught using my wife’s oyster student card on 25th Jan 2013, and got the first letter from TfL Enforcement Team 3 days after the event happened. I replied the letter the next day and haven’t received any feedback etc until 12th Feb, so I decided to call them. I told the officer, I want to settle the case without going to the court, and also explained, I have several conditions that initiate me to propose for off court settlement. The officer was very helpful and told me it is possible to settle the matter off the court because it is my first offence, and I have exceptional circumstances. Then, he told me what should I do next. The officer also mentioned that he can't guarantee a positive result but it is worth to try.

 

Now, I have to pay the £250 fine and sign a letter of warning and condition. For me, it is the best solution rather than having a criminal record. I suggest you can call them and talk to the officer. I wish you and your wife good luck for the case.

 

Hope this help, Regards

 

If you dont mind me asking - did you make contact before the next letter of summons arrives? FCC seem to be rather difficult to contact via phone?!

[Grotesque]

You need to download the FCC app mate.

[okonokos]

@noveum

25 Jan - the event happened

30 Jan - 1st letter from TfL Enforcement Team arrived

31 Jan - replied & send back the letter

13 Feb - called them (explained my conditions to propose off court settlement)

15 Feb - The prosecutors agreed to give me settlement under my exceptional circumstances

15 Feb - 2nd letter from TfL Enforcement Team arrived

 

yes I made the phone call before I received the 2nd letter, and I'm not receiving any summons letter, hope this help noveum

[Grotesque]

First of all you better tell him your 'conditions' bro

[honeybee13]

First of all you better tell him your 'conditions' bro

 

Hello Grotesque.

 

I hope I'm not the only one who's confused. Would you be able to clarify please?

 

My best, HB

[Grotesque]

No, because Okinokos has not told us. But he apparently successfully obtained an administrative settlement from TfL (and is to be congratulated on that of course, rare as it seems to be!), on the grounds of personal / exceptional circumstances. Therefore, unless Noveum has comparable 'conditions' with which to approach TfL, he is not necessarily likely to achieve an equivalent result even whilst potentially following the same timetable. See what I mean?

 

PS: I am not related to Sir Humphrey Appleby.

[honeybee13]

No, because Okinokos has not told us. But he apparently successfully obtained an administrative settlement from TfL (and is to be congratulated on that of course, rare as it seems to be!), on the grounds of personal / exceptional circumstances. Therefore, unless Noveum has comparable 'conditions' with which to approach TfL, he is not necessarily likely to achieve an equivalent result even whilst potentially following the same timetable. See what I mean?

 

PS: I am not related to Sir Humphrey Appleby.

 

Yes I do see, thank you. Crystal clear now.

 

I don't think Sir Humphrey called anyone Bro, did he?

 

HB

[Old-CodJA]

Aha, I was just going to comment my thoughts, but I see that Grotesque has explained it perfectly

 

The OP should never stop trying to settle with FCC if that's what she desires, but just because something worked for someone else who had extenuating circumstances, doesn't mean the same application is going to work for all cases.

[Grotesque]

Yes I do see, thank you. Crystal clear now.

 

I don't think Sir Humphrey called anyone Bro, did he?

 

HB

 

'Frater', ego specto

[noveum]

The Phone contact starts tomorrow. FCC will have received out statement last week and had a few days to process it so it should now be 'in the system'...

 

Will be trying all contact numbers I can - but i seem to think that the only successful line is the one that comes with the court dates if/when this arrives which I dont have at the moment.

 

My 'special circumstances' are the sames as most i imagine? Work / Family / 1st offence etc etc...

 

I get the impression if the person opening the letter is having a nice day then we may be ok? ....if the person who opens the letter had a bad weekend and is not in the mood it will be process and taken further?

 

Lets see what happens if we can make contact via phone this week!?!

[Cgs]

The Phone contact starts tomorrow. FCC will have received out statement last week and had a few days to process it so it should now be 'in the system'...

 

Will be trying all contact numbers I can - but i seem to think that the only successful line is the one that comes with the court dates if/when this arrives which I dont have at the moment.

 

My 'special circumstances' are the sames as most i imagine? Work / Family / 1st offence etc etc...

 

I get the impression if the person opening the letter is having a nice day then we may be ok? ....if the person who opens the letter had a bad weekend and is not in the mood it will be process and taken further?

 

Lets see what happens if we can make contact via phone this week!?!

 

What happened?

[noveum]

..to keep people updated.

 

We we sent a letter asking to put our statement forward. The letter was headed 'intent to prosecute'.

 

We have submitted this with a plea to avoid court, pay all costs to compensate the rail company.

 

Not heard back yet and that was a week ago.

 

I now think it will go either way - what i find frustrating is the speed of things as its now dragged on. Would rather have had it all wrapped up in a few days but i guess the train company have a lot of similar issues to deal with?

 

lets see what happens next?

[noveum]

Hi all,

 

Well we have some good news (as good as it can be?!)

 

We got a letter today saying that 'after taking our statement and letter of plea into consideration' FCC are happy to settle out of court provided we pay the sum we offered in our letters.

 

The wife phoned up today, paid over the phone and we can all get on with our lives! We offered £350 to avoid courts.

 

If anyone has to go through this scenario - firstly - you silly person!! Even though we begrudge the FCC/train system..they have us by the 'short and curlies'...so cant do much about it so we should just get on with it.

 

Tip: Get in contact with the FCC prosecution dept ASAP, be honest, admit fault and plead guilty. I get the impression the system is well set out and will win either way...

 

Thanks for everyones assistance.

Will keep an eye on this site moving forward and wish everyone luck!

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

I'm pleased you've been able to sort this, it's a shame it has cost you this much. Take care in future now you've had an unwanted tutorial on the system.

 

Thank you for letting us know, I'll amend your thread title.

 

My best, HB