Enhanced CRB check - concerned

[East7]

Hi folks. Back in my teens, I was taken home for being too drunk - no caution, warning, arrest or fine followed. On another occasion, I was taken to the hospital after being run over (which was partially my fault because I was running around in the road, and yes I was drunk). There were no injuries (thankfully) and therefore the police didn't do anything; they just told me off for being an idiot. I've never had DNA, photos or fingerprints taken at a police station, if this helps.

 

I sound like a complete idiot - I apologize. I use to hang around in the wrong crowd and drink way too much alcohol, but now I have grown up and have a degree, wife, a child and other important responsibilities. I'm going to be applying for a job working in a school as an I.T. technician and know I'll have to undergo an enhanced CRB check. I've read numerous things online about similar-ish cases, but can't seem to find a definite answer.

 

I'm just clueless on what the police hold against my name. The last thing I want to do is be dishonest on an application form, it's completely out of character.

 

Any advice would be very much appreciated,

 

East

Edited January 26, 2013 by East7

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

No these escapades won't appear, the police have taken no action what so ever.

[East7]

Thanks for your reply.

 

Would it be correct to assume that I am on some local police database for these "involvements" with the police.

 

e.g,

 

1) Taken home because too drunk

 

and

 

2) Arrived at scene. Was taken to hospital for checks and was intoxicated (seen running on the road)

 

Could the Constable mention any of this? Or would they only mention cautions, spent convictions, etc?

 

I apologize for all these questions but I get worried over everything

[assisted blonde]

You should be fine, no convictions of any sort so clean CRB, if you are really worried you could tell your prospective employer about these escapades but I cant see them being very interested

[East7]

I don't think I'll inform them as I was never under arrest or given a fine at either incident. Is this the right thing to do ?

[assisted blonde]

IMO you will be fine stop worrying

[SNALF]

Hi East7. If you were never convicted or cautioned, they will not show up on a CRB. However, what most people do not realise is that an employer gets different information on their copy of a CRB than what you get on your copy. The police can mention if they suspect that you are involved in activity of any criminal kind (even if you have not been arrested or convicted) if they believe that it is in the employers best interests to know this information. However, your misdemeanors as a youth will not fall into this category and I am sure that you have nothing to worry about.

[East7]

Thanks for your replies guys, it's very helpful. As this happened many years ago my memory is very sketchy, however, I remember contacting the police shortly after the second incident happened to inquiry about the incident (I wanted to make sure nothing was going to happen). The operator said that nothing had been logged on their system about any incident involving my name, address or the car's registration number. From what I remembered the person on the other line said if no party was injured then it wasn't a police matter and if they were intent on arresting me for say D+D or a public offence, they would have done it there and then.

 

Can I therefore assume an enhanced CBR check will not show this?

[Emmzzi]

I think you are asking a lot of forum users to know more about the police information system than the PC you spoke to did....

 

You are just going to have to go for it and see! I assume you will not be handing in notice on current job until you have an unconditional offer, so you have little to lose?

[SNALF]

Yes I would assume nothing will show up. If you have time before you apply for your job though East, you can make a subject access request to your local police. There is a £10 fee normally but it will show up anything that is deemed a 'record'. You will usually find the form on the website for your police authority, just google it and complete the form, pay the fee and they have to comply (they have 40 days to do it but it's usually much quicker than this).

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Yes!!!

[East7]

After speaking to a family member I realized that the police did actually log the second incident but took no further action - apparently they did it as a precaution in case I had serious injuries. This means I'm obviously filed on the PNC somewhere today.

 

The enhanced CRB will show "relevant" information on local police records under the Constable(s) discretion. I assume I'll have to declare the incident then? (Let's be honest, it doesn't sound great: a drunk youth messing around ) What do you think I should say? I was drunk once and was taken to hospital? As there is no offence I've ever been cautioned, arrested or fined for.

 

Any help/advice is very much appreciated

[SNALF]

Hi East. Logging the incident does not give you a record, unless it was a caution. In a past life, I have worked as a recruitment manager for an organisation which relies heavily on CRB checks (NHS). I am certain that if the incident was just 'logged', it will not show up at all, even with a Chief Constable's discretion. If you were cautioned, it will show up. From my experience, we would never disqualify somebody from working for the NHS (including with children) with such an old record for what is a very minor misdemeanor. However, deception is more of a worry to employers than such an old minor record so I would check your own record through a subject access request to be sure. If your application precedes the SAR, just right something like "potentially have a caution from 19** for very minor offence, will confirm once record is checked". That way, you are not being deceptive if it was a caution and shows up. Hope that helps.

[postggj]

i am interested in this comment

 

what most people do not realise is that an employer gets different information on their copy of a CRB than what you get on your copy

 

if a data subject requested information from the police via a data subject access request, then i take it the police would have to release all data they have on you. including suspected offenses, PNC markers etc

 

Whatever happened of innocent until proven guilty

 

may i ask what law under the Police & Criminal Evidence/Data Protection Act allows them to release this data via a CRB check (suspected offenses)

 

if it is a job that requires security vetting for national security, that i can understand, but to unilaterally pose supposition on a suspect, and pass that data onto a third party is plainly wrong

[LaughingGirl]

I believe that on an enhanced CRB, the Police have the choice to disclose investigations, suspected offences and voluntary interviews if they are relevant to the position being applied for.

 

I'm not saying that I agree with it in principle, but I believe that the idea was to be able to alert schools/hospitals etc when suspected paedophiles were applying for positions within them. As to whether the spirit of the law is followed at all times, I honestly couldn't say.

[SNALF]

Yes that's right Laughing Girl. I believe that the exemption came from the fact that Ian Huntley was arrested and investigated over 5 or 6 sexual offences but was never convicted of any, therefore his record would have been clean had a CRB system existed so there is the option of the police to advise on additional information they feel is in the best interests of the employer/role.

[East7]

Hi East. Logging the incident does not give you a record, unless it was a caution. In a past life, I have worked as a recruitment manager for an organisation which relies heavily on CRB checks (NHS). I am certain that if the incident was just 'logged', it will not show up at all, even with a Chief Constable's discretion. If you were cautioned, it will show up. From my experience, we would never disqualify somebody from working for the NHS (including with children) with such an old record for what is a very minor misdemeanor. However, deception is more of a worry to employers than such an old minor record so I would check your own record through a subject access request to be sure. If your application precedes the SAR, just right something like "potentially have a caution from 19** for very minor offence, will confirm once record is checked". That way, you are not being deceptive if it was a caution and shows up. Hope that helps.

 

There was no caution or anything. The incident was apparently logged for precaution reasons as I did have to go to hospital. With regards to this subject access form, does it matter what police station I go to? Both incidents happened in the same county, so will it matter what station I attend as long as they're 'governed' under the same county?

[SNALF]

No it won't matter East as long as it's the same police authority. As you were certain that you were not cautioned, the incident will NOT show up on a CRB. Nor will the police disclose the information separately, that is only in a safeguarding situation which does not apply to being drunk as a skunk.

[East7]

No it won't matter East as long as it's the same police authority. As you were certain that you were not cautioned, the incident will NOT show up on a CRB. Nor will the police disclose the information separately, that is only in a safeguarding situation which does not apply to being drunk as a skunk.

 

Thanks for your replies SNALF, I really appreciate it.

 

So to confirm, because I didn't receive a caution, the incident will *not* show up on either a basic, standard or enhanced CRB? I will be going down to the police station in about 2 weeks as I'm working away from home as of tomorrow Also, what happens if the police noted "no further action" on the incident - but I wasn't arrested, cautioned or fine.

 

I would just hate my prospective employer to see that I was "drunk as a skunk" causing havoc as I'm a completely different person now.

 

Thanks

Edited January 28, 2013 by East7

[SNALF]

Truly East, it won't show up. The CRB will show your criminal record, i.e. offences which you were actually convicted of or cautioned against. A caution is a form of conviction too. A standard CRB will only show 'unspent' items, an enhanced one will show all, but not details of arrests or interviews or anything else you were involved with the police as long as you were not convicted. The only exception to this is if the police suspect you were (or currently are) involved in something which would pose a risk, such as paedophile activities or serious drugs etc. They do this as a safeguarding measure if they believe that employing you would put a vulnerable group at risk. In the event I mean, whereby you have no convictions but they strongly believe you are a risk. This never includes incidents of drinking etc

[East7]

Truly East, it won't show up. The CRB will show your criminal record, i.e. offences which you were actually convicted of or cautioned against. A caution is a form of conviction too. A standard CRB will only show 'unspent' items, an enhanced one will show all, but not details of arrests or interviews or anything else you were involved with the police as long as you were not convicted. The only exception to this is if the police suspect you were (or currently are) involved in something which would pose a risk, such as paedophile activities or serious drugs etc. They do this as a safeguarding measure if they believe that employing you would put a vulnerable group at risk. In the event I mean, whereby you have no convictions but they strongly believe you are a risk. This never includes incidents of drinking etc

 

Thanks a lot! Not worried now

[BazzaS]

Thanks a lot! Not worried now

 

Additionally, the situation regarding "Information at the Chief Officer's discretion" changed in Sept 2012.

Subjects can now challenge the presentation of such information if it isn't relevant.

From : http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/agencies-public-bodies/dbs/corporate-publications/disclosure-and-barring-changes/leaflet-england-wales?view=Binary

 

6. Police information held locally – more rigorous relevancy test and new right of review

Currently, the police provide information held locally on enhanced CRB certificates when they consider it to be relevant to the purpose for which the certificate was requested. This will continue, but the police

will now apply a more rigorous test before deciding whether to disclose information. At the moment they include information if it ‘might be relevant’ and ought to be disclosed. From September, they will include it if they ‘reasonably believe [it] to be relevant’ and consider that it ought to be disclosed.

In addition, if any of that information is included on an enhanced CRB certificate and the applicant does not think that it should be, they will now be able to ask the Independent Monitor to review it, and the Independent Monitor can ask the CRB to issue a new certificate, either without that information or with amendments to it. Applicants should be encouraged to inform you when they request such a review and to update you about what happens with their certificate.

[SNALF]

Yes that's right Bazza, it has to be relevant but once disclosed, the damage is done even if challenged.

[BazzaS]

Yes that's right Bazza, it has to be relevant but once disclosed, the damage is done even if challenged.

 

Is it?. A report of "information at the Chief Officer's discretion" isn't a conviction, and (like a conviction, but likely of even less influence) is just one factor for an employer.

 

In the same way that an offence early in life that an applicant can show they learnt from & turned their life around, why would "getting drunk as a teenager" affect an application.

I suspect many of the employers staff would be thinking "that could have been me".

 

It is one factor and one factor only. I don't subscribe to 'anything other than "none recorded" on a CRB equates to unemployable'

 

It depends on the severity of what is disclosed, when it occurred, and the applicants behaviour in the interim.

[SNALF]

That's true in theory Bazza but in the real world, an employer who is sifting 50 applicants for a single post and one pops up with a potential CRB problem, they likely screen out when they have 49 others without the headache. It happens unfortunately.