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    • https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/408156-cabotnolans-spc-claim-old-next-cat-debtclaim-dismissed/page/4/#comments https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/404240-arrowshoos-spc-old-newday-aqua-credit-card-debt-claim-dismissed-no-dn/page/4/#comments default notice win  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/407490-meiii-cabotnolans-spc-claim-old-yorkshire-bank-loan-2nd-claim-dismissed/  
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    • stop doing nolans job for them... there are numerous threads here in the same forum yours is in     no DN info to follow   dx    
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Problem with a race bike I sold


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I sold a non road use racing motorcycle in a private sale back in October of last year. It was a bike that I had only ridden on 4 brief occasions having bought it myself privately a year earlier.

 

I resold the bike using the full description I was given from the guy who I purchased it from. In my ownership I rode the bike on track on just four occasions and had the bike Dyno tested in my ownership where it made the power the guy I purchased it from claimed. The guy I bought it from had claimed that the engine had been refreshed not long prior to my purchase but could not produce receipts for this work so I took a punt on buying the bike as he seemed genuine and was well known in race circles as a genuine guy.

 

I had no reason to believe that the bike had any issues at all. I know a good bike from bad and this one rode well and the engine was very strong on power. I was forced to sell it for financial reasons but sold it on with great confidence and genuinely thought the buyer got a fantastic bargain given the further £500 I reduced the asking price to get it sold to a good home. It was sold for more that £1000 less than I paid for it and I only used it 4 trackdays, plus I paid out £500 for further parts and testing. I was so confident in it being sound I sold it to a mate, genuinely feeling I was doing him a favour.

 

I'm now deeply embarrassed as the bike blew its engine on just its second day on track with its new owner. He has had the engine stripped by a specialist who feels from the condition of the engine that it has not had the recent refresh work done as claimed. I pointed out in the sale that I was told that this work had been done but I couldn't produce receipts but in my brief use of the bike and the testing I had done I saw absolutely no reason to doubt it.

 

I really don't know for sure if the bike has been run low on oil, overheated or over revved. These highly strung bikes have oil changes after every use so it may have been run with the wrong level, they have no cooling fans so have to be kept moving or may have overheating damage and are very easy to over rev when down shifting on track. If the specialist feels the bike has not been refreshed as claimed its hard to contest that without receipts to prove the work and its something that can only really be seen with the engine in bits.

 

The buyer has not asked anything of me yet but if they do I would like to be sure of my rights should he get a huge bill and expect me to do something. I'm worried he may want to reject the bike which I cannot afford to buy back or expect me to pay for the repair which may amount to a huge sum of money which again I don't have.

 

It was a private sale, done for cash with no receipt advertised through an internet forum. Even worse the buyer is a good friend. I'm unsure yet if he is prepared to take it on the chin as it was a private sale on a highly strung race bike. We have all bought and sold a few and you take your chances. I've just passed on the description I had which I had no reason to doubt.

 

I'm hoping its either going to be taken on the chin or if he does feel I owe something legally I don't have any liability and am here looking to confirm that this is the case. I just hope any goodwill gesture I can afford to make will be taken as being fair and better than nothing. I really don't think I'm going to get anywhere going back to the guy who sold it to me either, like me he is not a trader either, just a private individual. The last refresh was done by a mate of his so he may well of believed himself it had been done correctly.

 

Gutted what should have been a sweet deal turned into a mess and I hope it doesn't mess up a friendship. I hate people feeling like I have wronged someone when I genuinely thought the bike was a good one. I want to make it right but have to protect myself and just don't have the cash to do anything but make a small gesture to help.

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If you have been absolutely straight in your advertising and, if I read your post correctly, you even pointed out that the rebuild had been done before you bought the bike and you had no direct evidence, then, I believe the purchaser has no legal recourse.

 

His only likely legal claim would have been for mis-advertising which you do not appear to have done. I think, as you suggest, this is a highly tuned bit of kit, and therefore a failure is always possible when racing.

 

You said you had raced it a few times and saw no problem. Maybe the the new buyer rides just a bit faster and harder than you do! :car:

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Thanks for taking the time to reply. I certainly passed on every bit of information I had and the work was done before I bought the bike so I could only go on the guy I bought it froms word and pointed out I had no way of proving it. If the work had not been done or there were any faults I was certainly unaware.

 

I don't think I legally have to do anything. This is more of a deal to me as its my reputation, made worse by the fact its someone in my circle of friends that involved. I kinda have a feeling of responsibility even though its not my fault.

 

I've yet to be asked for anything and I don't even know if I will yet. I just want to be in a position that should I be asked that its understood that legally I am not obligated to do anything and if I offer up the little bit of money I can afford to help with the repair it is taken in good faith as me doing the best I can to make right as I could have just walked away. This could amount to nothing and we sort it out amicably as friends but I don't know if or which way the buyer will jump yet.

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The bike completed its first outing with the new owner at the controls, any issue with the engine would have manifested itself then, and as you confirm the oil is changed between circuits, there would have been an opportunity to check any filings and bits when the sump was drained.

 

Is it a two or four stroke ? Any other things that might lead to a quicker than normal demise ? (Kawasaki gearboxes spring to mind)

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The bike is being used on a four day event, shared by a few different riders. I supplied it with some spare oil and filters so expect this was changed before the event as the bike had stood for some months over winter with the oil in it when sold. That oil was clean but I would have changed it again prior to such a 4 day event. I'm pretty sure the buyer would have too as he is pretty knowledgeable and understands this type of machine. I got a message at the end of day one that the bike was awesome. The bike then failed some time on day two after one of the riders reported a rattle and found it low on oil. They put more oil in and later it let go. Not sure how much track time it had done between those riders nor if the oil starvation was due to it being underfilled or a fault causing it to burn. I just got a report that it failed on day two, a mechanic who I know has very specialist knowledge had pulled it apart, worryingly found gunk in the oil and didn't feel the condition of the inlet ports showed the bike had been refreshed very recently. The bike is a 4 stroke supersport spec machine. I've yet to get more details of the extent of the damage or cost to put right.

 

Issue is that its a bike that's probably a £20k build 6 years ago and given the level of tuning has the bills to go with that. I sold it for just £4k given its age but a supersport spec engine rebuild could be a big percentage of the bikes overall value. It's already in the hands of a very respected specialist who understandably is going to charge a fair wedge to do a top draw job to put his name to any repair as he is only going to do it to the finest standard, using brand new parts. In the bike racing world reputation is important so a £4k bike is still going to be treated to the same high standard as a brand new race bike by such a mechanic.

 

The other people involved with riding and working on the bike are friends of mine so I don't want to get into accusations as to someone mistreating the bike etc. Likewise I have never taken any part of the bikes engine apart so only have the previous owners word that most resent refresh done prior to my ownership and that the motor is sound. My few outings on the bike and dyno testing showed it to be sound too. If the mechanic has found any issue I don't want to get into any argument over it as I genuinely have no previous idea of any issues at all.

 

Time will tell if I'm expected to do anything or not, still waiting to hear. We may not have any dispute as like me the buyer may understand its one of those things totally beyond my control and I have also been burned. I hope he doesn't want anything then I can offer a small token amount toward the fix, which I can afford which can be seen as me being fair doing something I didn't have to rather than me trying to pay him off on the cheap.

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I got a message at the end of day one that the bike was awesome. The bike then failed some time on day two after one of the riders reported a rattle and found it low on oil. They put more oil in and later it let go. Not sure how much track time it had done between those riders nor if the oil starvation was due to it being underfilled or a fault causing it to burn.

 

As per the last post, the bike was fine throughout day one. Nothing could therefore be attributed to earlier use, or ownership.

The fact you were advised the bike was 'awesome' (keep the text, just in case) after the first race, and it was only during day two that low oil was discovered, before engine failure confirms something catastrophic happened on that day to cause the damage.

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