1993 suspended possession order granted

[Ginger Cat]

In 1993, our lender was granted a possession order which was suspended as we came to an arrangement with them. Recently, our lender became very aggressive and applied to the court for permission to enforce the order which they were granted by a judge who refused to hear our arguments for it not to be granted.

Can anyone advise on this?

 

Many thanks.

 

PS Sorry (it's my 1st post) I've just noticed I should have posted this in the "repossessions" section?

Edited January 25, 2013 by Ginger Cat
wrong thread

[honeybee13]

In 1993, our lender was granted a possession order which was suspended as we came to an arrangement with them. Recently, our lender became very aggressive and applied to the court for permission to enforce the order which they were granted by a judge who refused to hear our arguments for it not to be granted.

Can anyone advise on this?

 

Many thanks.

 

PS Sorry (it's my 1st post) I've just noticed I should have posted this in the "repossessions" section?

 

Hello there and welcome to CAG.

 

I happened to be passing and saw you would like a forum move. I'll send this to Repossessions and leave you a short term redirect via this forum.

 

My best, HB

[Ginger Cat]

Thank you very much.

[Lea_HTH]

In 1993, our lender was granted a possession order which was suspended as we came to an arrangement with them. Recently, our lender became very aggressive and applied to the court for permission to enforce the order which they were granted by a judge who refused to hear our arguments for it not to be granted.

Can anyone advise on this?

 

 

They must have had really strong points to gain permission to enforce so long after the original order was granted - particularly if you were in court at the time.

 

How much were the arrears when the original SPO was granted and how much are they now?

What were the terms of the SPO - how much were you supposed to pay towards the arrears?

[Ginger Cat]

Thanks for replying. Sorry, I did reply but it did not take it. I'll try again.

 

The arrears were £7644 in April 1993 and £255,185 in April 2012.

 

Originally they got an order in October 1992 that was adjourned by the judge to January 1993

which said The Plaintiff do file and serve an affidavit giving full details as to how the arrears figure of £7265.43

and the current mortgage instalment figures of £987.77 are compiled within 14 days of today's date.

 

Then there was an Amended Order for suspended possession which was ordered to be reviewed in April 1993.

 

In April 1993 the order said "the order of 5/1/93 be further suspended upon the Defendants

paying the current mortgage repayments as and when they fall due". There be liberty to apply.

 

During this time we were in negotiations with the lender and came to an arrangement with them.

They have been quite happy to keep to this arrangement albeit it was not for the fully monthly payment.

[Ell-enn]

Thanks for replying. Sorry, I did reply but it did not take it. I'll try again.

 

The arrears were £7644 in April 1993 and £255,185 in April 2012.

Originally they got an order in October 1992that was adjourned by the judge to January 1993 which said The Plaintiff do file and serve an affidavit giving full details as to how the arrears figure of £7265.43 and the current mortgage instalment figures of £987.77 are compiled within 14 days of today's date.

Then there was an Amended Order for suspended possession which was ordered to be reviewed in April 1993.

In April 1993 the order said "the order of 5/1/93 be further suspended upon the Defendants paying the current mortgage repayments as and when they fall due". There be liberty to apply.

 

During this time we were in negotiations with the lender and came to an arrangement with them. They have been quite happy to keep to this arrangement albeit it was not for the fully monthly payment.

 

Your arrears were £255,185 in April 2012 ?? are you sure ?

[Ginger Cat]

Thanks for replying Ell-enn.

 

Well, we're not sure but that's what the lender put into court.

[Ell-enn]

Can you type up the exact wording from their witness statement that refers to the £255,185 (could it be the amount of mortgage outstanding ?)

[Ginger Cat]

On their Addendum 1/2 point 3.

says. "Since that order was made arrears on the account have steadily increased from £7,644.68

(see entry on statement of account at page 4) to their current level of £255,185.58 (see entry on stateament of account at page 8).

The relevent column for arrears is that headed "Arrears of interest, bins (buildings insurance premium) and PPI (payment protection insurance premium)" "

 

There is more but I think that's the relevant point you want.

 

Balance outstanding is something else!

 

Please let me know if there is anything else you need to know as there is a lot more.

 

Many thanks for your help.

[Ell-enn]

Have you been paying PPI for the duration of the mortgage ? or was the premium loaded on to the balance ? do you have details of the PPI policy ?

[Ginger Cat]

The PPI stopped in1992 as our request because they changed insurance companies and the new one did not cover our needs.

 

We had paid from 1990 and the total amount under the PPI column (according to their accounts put into court) was £569.84.

 

Also at that time the mortgage was changed from Interest to Interest and Repayment

but we were not offered any alternative repayment vehicle by this lender

nor the implications of this change discussed by them and we did not sign anything.

[Ell-enn]

The figure of 255,185 represents 21 years missed payments (258 months !) if your monthly payment is 987.77

[Lea_HTH]

Have you actually been paying this mortgage, and if so, how much each month? You make reference to reduced payments.

 

I noted you have also commented regarding MRS in another thread - which had been refused. Has that application been re-opened?

 

How much is the property worth? How much is the mortgage on the property? Are there other loans secured against the property, and if yes, how much?

 

Are you in employment or claiming benefits?

[Ginger Cat]

Yes, it's been at reduced payments as agreed with the lender. They were happy to receive benefits plus some extra. Unfortunately, we were both taken ill at different times and became disabled and the lender was made aware of our circumstances. The amounts from dwp varied because it was tied to a basket of lenders (govt changed rules) and we agreed to pay extra of £82.00 month. We never missed any of these payments.

 

Regarding the MRS - The CAB suggested we apply for as we fitted all the criteria and they started it. But it was turned down by the housing association because it was over the cap. We contacted the Home & Communities Agency who suggested there had been maladministration and that it should be applied for via our local council only. So we contacted them and reapplied. It is only today that we are told that they are refusing to process it further because of the cap. We have told them the HCA said that under certain circumstances the cap can be waived. But they are refusing to budge and have said the housing association said it had been turned down in April because of the cap.

 

Property is valued at £375.000. We borrowed 84,000 in 1990. Lender keeps giving different figures from 350,000 to 600,000. No other loans secured against property.

[Ginger Cat]

The figure of 255,185 represents 21 years missed payments (258 months !) if your monthly payment is 987.77

 

We took out a mortgage for 84,000 in 1990 and

 

today the lender says on their latest statement - Arrears: £601,551.00

Contractual Payment: £10,848.45

Balance: £358,706.27.

 

For many years we've been ill and disabled and have had to rely on income support payment plus an additional amount

as agreed with the lender many years ago to be paid and

 

to date, we believe we have paid approx. £130,000.

The interest rate applied at the beginning of the loan was 15.95%.

But the company said it was stabilised at 10.49%.

The monthly payment was £676 then changed to £686 four months later and has changed every few months ever since.

 

This changed when the endowment was cancelled and the company changed it to a repayment and interest mortgage in 1992.

The interest rate according to the lender was 10.80% and the payment was £873 and then the next few months £940.

 

Then in April 1993 it was according to the lender 9.99% and the interest rates changed up and down throughout.

 

All this time we were in touch with the lender who were quite happy to accept the payments as agreed.

[Lea_HTH]

I am afraid that the outlook for you is not particularly good. Your debt is far too large for mortgage rescue to consider - your mortgage outweighs the value of the property by more than 100% i.e. more than double the value of the property. The maximum over the value of the property for MRS would be 20% - i.e. 120% of the total value of the house. It is extremely unlikely, if not impossible, for MRS to assist in these circumstances - they would not get any value out of buying your house.

 

There is extreme prejudice to the mortgagees as they are not going to recover their monies out of repossession - it beggars belief that they allowed this to continue for such a long period without attempting to nip it in the bud.

 

My strongest suggestion would be to see a solicitor (if you are on benefits you may be entitled to legal aid), as there may be an issue of mis-selling involved (very hard to prove), or perhaps unfair contract terms (easier to prove, but still very hard). Only a solicitor will be able to assist with this as they will need to see all paperwork and undertake some investigation into the original loan and all that has happened since that time.

 

The only good news is that hopefully your local authority will house you as you have disabilities.

[citizenB]

Are you able to say who the mortgage is with - if you have been paying something toward it each month, surely it should be going down.. not up !!

 

And why on earth have they let it get to this stage. Have you seen a complete statement history of your payments ?

[Ginger Cat]

I am afraid that the outlook for you is not particularly good. Your debt is far too large for mortgage rescue to consider - your mortgage outweighs the value of the property by more than 100% i.e. more than double the value of the property. The maximum over the value of the property for MRS would be 20% - i.e. 120% of the total value of the house. It is extremely unlikely, if not impossible, for MRS to assist in these circumstances - they would not get any value out of buying your house.

 

There is extreme prejudice to the mortgagees as they are not going to recover their monies out of repossession - it beggars belief that they allowed this to continue for such a long period without attempting to nip it in the bud.

 

My strongest suggestion would be to see a solicitor (if you are on benefits you may be entitled to legal aid), as there may be an issue of mis-selling involved (very hard to prove), or perhaps unfair contract terms (easier to prove, but still very hard). Only a solicitor will be able to assist with this as they will need to see all paperwork and undertake some investigation into the original loan and all that has happened since that time.

 

The only good news is that hopefully your local authority will house you as you have disabilities.

 

Thank you very much for your reply.

The local authority have said they would only provide emergency accommodation and that we would have to find somewhere ourselves. We would be entitled to housing benefit. There is a housing crisis in our area and initially they said that it would be cheaper for the council to go with the MRS but now they will not.

 

We are disputing the loan (as we've been told it's a loan by several people not a mortgage) accounts and we have been trying to get a solicitor on legal aid which is proving very difficult as they are all over loaded. I think we were definitely missold the loan as I would never have taken out such a thing if I knew it would amount to £1million at the end of the term. Some other people who looked at the accounts also said that even if we had paid the proper monthly payments, we would still owe at the end of the term.

 

Do you think we would be able to get the possession order suspended if we are disputing the accounts which we were at the last hearing but the judge was not listening. Also, we have put a complaint into the FOS.

[Ginger Cat]

Are you able to say who the mortgage is with - if you have been paying something toward it each month, surely it should be going down.. not up !!

 

And why on earth have they let it get to this stage. Have you seen a complete statement history of your payments ?

 

National Home Loans. They put a breakdown into court but the figures are incorrect and they have been very creative with their accounting.

We never missed the arranged payments. I think they were just happy to let it mount up before they took any action. They wanted us to sell or give them the keys and the CAB suggested the MRS would be a good route to go down as we fitted the criteria.

[Lea_HTH]

Thank you very much for your reply.

The local authority have said they would only provide emergency accommodation and that we would have to find somewhere ourselves. We would be entitled to housing benefit. There is a housing crisis in our area and initially they said that it would be cheaper for the council to go with the MRS but now they will not.

 

We are disputing the loan (as we've been told it's a loan by several people not a mortgage) accounts and we have been trying to get a solicitor on legal aid which is proving very difficult as they are all over loaded. I think we were definitely missold the loan as I would never have taken out such a thing if I knew it would amount to £1million at the end of the term. Some other people who looked at the accounts also said that even if we had paid the proper monthly payments, we would still owe at the end of the term.

 

Do you think we would be able to get the possession order suspended if we are disputing the accounts which we were at the last hearing but the judge was not listening. Also, we have put a complaint into the FOS.

 

Depending on your disabilities the local authority may have to provide you with housing - however, housing lists are long in most parts of the country, so the usual way around this is to assist you in finding a private rental and offering a deposit guarantee and perhaps rent in advance. You'll be entitled to HB as you've already been told.

 

A 'loan' secured on a property is a 'mortgage' - the terms are exchangeable in these circumstances, there is no material or factual difference.

You'll get nowhere with disputing the mortgage, or defending a notice of eviction with the level of arrears you have, without the assistance of a solicitor.

 

It is unlikely that you can stop the possession at this stage - you said the application was for reinstating an old possession order, which means the next stage will be a warrant of execution. Unless you can afford the CMI plus something towards the arrears it is unlikely a judge will suspend the warrant.

[Ginger Cat]

Depending on your disabilities the local authority may have to provide you with housing - however, housing lists are long in most parts of the country, so the usual way around this is to assist you in finding a private rental and offering a deposit guarantee and perhaps rent in advance. You'll be entitled to HB as you've already been told.

 

A 'loan' secured on a property is a 'mortgage' - the terms are exchangeable in these circumstances, there is no material or factual difference.

You'll get nowhere with disputing the mortgage, or defending a notice of eviction with the level of arrears you have, without the assistance of a solicitor.

 

It is unlikely that you can stop the possession at this stage - you said the application was for reinstating an old possession order, which means the next stage will be a warrant of execution. Unless you can afford the CMI plus something towards the arrears it is unlikely a judge will suspend the warrant.

 

We put a complaint into the CEO of the company who has asked his manager to investigate accounts and report back to him. In the meantime they issued an eviction notice despite the manager assuring us in writing that no further legal would be taken. They have now cancelled that notice after we asked them & their solicitor to retract it. One hand does not know what the other is doing it would appear.

Yes, we need a solicitor very badly.

[Ell-enn]

Do you have legal cover in your home contents insurance ? if so give them a ring and see if they can appoint a solicitor for you - if the solicitors say they can't handle your case ask if they will refer you to Pro Bono

[Lea_HTH]

When was the eviction cancelled? Because you started this thread by saying that an application had been approved to reinstate the possession order - which would mean that a warrant of eviction could be issued.

 

You'll need to be a lot clearer, otherwise it just wastes time and effort repeatedly asking for accurate information.

[Ginger Cat]

When was the eviction cancelled? Because you started this thread by saying that an application had been approved to reinstate the possession order - which would mean that a warrant of eviction could be issued.

 

You'll need to be a lot clearer, otherwise it just wastes time and effort repeatedly asking for accurate information.

 

Sorry, for not replying sooner.

 

When we wrote to the CEO of the company, a few weeks ago, after they had the 1993 possession reinstated. They wrote back to say they any further action would be put on hold while they looked into our accounts. Unfortunately, this they did not do and a warrant was issued. We immediately rang lender who said it was a mistake and would get it withdrawn and cancelled. We asked for it to be confirmed in writing and also rang their solicitors and asked for confirmation which they provided. And just to make sure, we rang the court who confirmed it had been withdrawn.

Meanwhile, we have managed to find a solicitor who will see us under legal aid and made an appointment for next week.