PPI: About to take on HSBC

[slinky252]

Hi Guys,

 

I am just about to embark on a PPI Claim with HSBC and i am expecting a bit of a fight,

hopefully it will go smoothly but it has not thus far.

 

Just a little about me,

had numerous cards and loans with different banks and lenders and it all in the end got a bit much for me.

 

 

I ended up looking at first into an IVA, this was back in 2009.

In the end right at the last minute after not being told everything by the Insolvency Practitioner dealing with the IVA,

i pulled out and did not sign into it.

 

 

Much to the annoyance of the Insolvency practitioner.

 

 

I decided thankfully to go on a DMP and now everything is running great and i am back on the straight and narrow.

 

I was looking into PPI and pulled out all statements i had and

noticed that the main credit card i had with HSBC which i paid off and never used again in 2007 had PPI.

 

 

I originally phoned them to ask a few questions and never really stated it was a complaint.

I then recieved a letter from them and also the questionaire to send off.

i have not sent anything off has yet because i wanted to know more before i placed a written complaint.

 

On the 6th december 2012 i received a surprising letter from HSBC stating that their records show

i am on an IVA and that they have no way of ascertaining whether

the IP has pledged/ assigned their right to complain to you and whether they are aware of my involvement;

and whether they have agreed to allow you to represent them and

 

 

under the circumstances, we cannot release information unless they have written confirmation from the IP

that i have their authority to proceed.

 

 

And also for this reason they are no longer treating this matter as a formal complaint

and cannot proceed further without written authority from the IP.

 

 

They also urged me to take immediate independent professional advice as to my position.

 

This letter scared me and i investigated

 

 

i since found out that i have had an IVA on my record since oct 2009.

 

 

After some time and lots of letters i have had this IVA revoked with the insolvency service

and i am in possession of a screenshot email from them showing this to be the case,

and also a apologetic letter from the compliance manager of the IP at Blair Endersby

due to the administrative error on their part.

 

I have been looking at the great things and advice people get on this site

and will keep all informed of what's happening but just wandered what my next step is.

 

 

I know i have to send a letter back to HSBC and put in firstly my first complaint to them re PPI on my crediit card and loan,

i also have one with Barclaycard.

 

Just wanted to clarify a few points first.

 

1. Have not got all statements but have a lot from 1997 to 2007 does this matter re my PPI claim.

2. Do they only have records going back 6 years.

3. Can i claim back to 1995 when the card was officially opened,

recorded on my credit file even though i dont have statements back that far.

4. is it true i can claim both compound interest and the 8% upto present day.

5. Is it worth me getting a SAR from HSBC.

6. What is the best response back to them re the IVA letter.

7. i understand that they cant touch me regarding debt they sold onto a third party which was my overdraft with them back in 2009.

8. What information would HSBC release to me has said in the letter from them.

 

I thank you all for any advice on this matter so i can get this ball rolling

[ims21]

Thread has been moved to the PPI forum.

 

Hi

 

In answer to your quetions...

 

1. Have not got all statements but have a lot from 1997 to 2007 does this matter re my PPI claim.

 

No. You are entitled to a reasonable estimate of redress fro the periods where data is missing.

 

2. Do they only have records going back 6 years.

 

Most enders caim tat they have no data beyond six years but we have evidence that in fact they do have older data and it mysteriously appears when they are threatened with court action to disclose it.

 

3. Can i claim back to 1995 when the card was officially opened, recorded on my credit file even though i dont have statements back that far.

 

Yes....see note above about using estimates.

 

4. is it true i can claim both compound interest and the 8% upto present day.

 

A regulatory based award will consist of....

 

1 -> The premiums paid

 

2 -> Any interest charged as a result of those premiums.

 

3 -> The card account should be reconstructed with the PPI removed. If the reconstructed account shows that for any period the account would have been in credit then 8% simple is awarded on that credit balance for that period.

 

4 -> Where the account has been paid off and closed, 8% simple is awarded on the difference between the amount paid off and the reconstructed balance running from the date of settlement of the account to the date of the settlelement of the PPI claim.

 

5. Is it worth me getting a SAR from HSBC.

 

In my opinion, yes

 

6. What is the best response back to them re the IVA letter.

 

Write to them enclosing a copy of the evidence of errors, tell them that you have never been involved in an IVA and therefore they are required to deal with you in regard to your affairs. Failure to do so will result in a complaint to fos and the ICO.

 

7. i understand that they cant touch me regarding debt they sold onto a third party which was my overdraft with them back in 2009.

 

Can't touch you in what respect?

 

8. What information would HSBC release to me has said in the letter from them.

 

If you send a SAR they have to supply you with all personal data they hold on you held in a relevant filing system.

[slinky252]

Hi ims21,

 

Thank you so much for your quick and very informative reply.

 

To answer your question back

i am on a DMP and i am paying back creditors who mostly have passed on their debt to other collection agencies,

HSBC were one of them and passed theirs on also.

 

 

It was for an overdraft and nothing to do with the credit card or loan i had with them, because they were paid off.

 

 

Just wandered if i did receive money back from them do they send it to me or does it automatically go to the collection agency?

 

I have a few more questions if you dont mind, just want to understand this fully and know which way i go forward with this.

 

1. How is the reasonable estimate of redress worked out.

2. Cant quite get my head round how i work out what i am possibly entitled to exactly and how the compound interest and 8% is worked out, could you point me somewhere where this is easilly understood.

3. What details would benefit me in this instance requesting a SAR.

4. Are My next steps firstly to send a letter back with the evidence of the revoked IVA And then official complaint to HSBC Re miss sold PPI, and then in a seperate letter with a postal order of £10 requesting a SAR or should i send this in one letter.

 

After doing what you think is best what are my next steps.

 

Once again thank you so much for your great advice on this issue ims21

[ims21]

If you have debts within the same banking group then they will use their right of set-off. However, if a debt as been sold on then there is no right of set-off and any repayment will come to you. If the collections agency are acting on behalf of the original creditor and the debt is still owned by the original creditor then the right of set-off still exists.

 

1. How is the reasonable estimate of redress worked out.

 

For a loan you will get back the PPI premiums paid plus any associated interest paid plus 8% on the amounts paid for PPI and interest running from the date of payment to the date of settlement.

 

As for credit cards, see my answer above.

 

2. Cant quite get my head round how i work out what i am possibly entitled to exactly and how the compound interest and 8% is worked out, could you point me somewhere where this is easilly understood.

 

Have a read of No.1 in my signature regarding single premium PPI on a loan.

 

Spreadsheets to help you work out how much you may be owed are here

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?330996-Latest-Spreadsheets-PPI-Claims-and-Charges-Claims-Dec-2011

 

Follow the instructions in the "Notes" tab

 

3. What details would benefit me in this instance requesting a SAR.

 

To get all of the data they hold on you. Ask for copies of agreements within the SAR if you don't already have them. The statements/transaction history will enable you to look at what payments were made against various accounts and what the PPI charges were. You will need this information to be able to work out what you are due back.

 

4. Are My next steps firstly to send a letter back with the evidence of the revoked IVA And then official complaint to HSBC Re miss sold PPI, and then in a seperate letter with a postal order of £10 requesting a SAR or should i send this in one letter.

 

SAR first to get the data. They have 40 days to comply.

 

Then you lodge a formal mis-selling complaint using a fos consumer questionnaire and, if you can, a spreadsheet showing your calculations. They will then have 8 weeks from receipt of your complaint to investigate and give you a final decision. Send the evidence that you were not in an IVA with the PPI mis-selling claim.

[slinky252]

Thanks once again ims21,

 

That is great,

 

 

just one more thing i dont remember anything being said to me regards the ppi on the credit card,

just think i signed it and when i took out the loan no way was it explained to me in full detail.

 

 

When i place my complaint with them what do write when telling them why i think i was mis sold ppi to make it a legitimate claim.

 

Thanks once again, i will post my latest actions so it helps others along the way.

[ims21]

Basically you tell them why you feel it was mis-sold.

 

All of your reasoning will be put in the fos questionnaire

 

Have a look at the PPI stickies...this one should start you off with some valid reasons for a mis-sale

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?61081-PPI-Some-Notes-for-Claimants..(1-Viewing)-nbsp

[slinky252]

Thanks ims21,

 

Will take a look also when i put in for a subject access request do i ask it to be for anything in particular or for everything they hold on me?

[ims21]

SAR template is here...adapt to suit.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?552-Data-Protection

 

If quoting account numbers, ensure tat you make plain in the letter tat the SAR is not restricted to those accounts and you want ALL data they hold on you relating to ANY and ALL accounts ever held.

 

Also add a sort paragraph that it is to include copies of all and any agreements you have ever had with them.

[slinky252]

Hi Ims21,

 

I had a loan on the 06/10/00 with HSBC and the loan protection was £1171.93 upon using the calculator you sent me on a link i got this to £2331.63 with 8% simple to todays date. Does this sound right to you it worked out a 8% simple of £1159.70. And is it correct no other ineterest is calculated on the claim due to this being a loan.

 

Also when using the calculator for credit card ppi what interest rates do i use on the original paperwork that came with the card in 1995 with midland bank i have it stated as -

 

Monthly interest rate 1.430%

Purchases 20.42%

 

If i made a ppi payment of £3.28 what is calculated from that. i know it changes annually but what can i expect back from a ppi payment just to see if i am on the right track.

 

For example on the compound interest calculator it asks for a interest rate (apr) that is the 20.42%

 

because if so a £3.28 charge on 20/06/97 equates to a staggering £56.50 compound interest after 5702 days have elapsed and the 8% simple still to be added which i have not calculated yet. if you could explain this fully i would be appreciated if i am wrong. Thanks for your hard work on this.

Edited January 29, 2013 by slinky252

[ims21]

Hi Ims21,

 

I had a loan on the 06/10/00 with HSBC and the loan protection was £1171.93 upon using the calculator you sent me on a link i got this to £2331.63 with 8% simple to todays date. Does this sound right to you it worked out a 8% simple of £1159.70. And is it correct no other ineterest is calculated on the claim due to this being a loan.

 

Post up your spreadsheet so we can have a look. Take out any personal identifiers first

 

Also when using the calculator for credit card ppi what interest rates do i use on the original paperwork that came with the card in 1995 with midland bank i have it stated as -

 

Monthly interest rate 1.430%

Purchases 20.42%

 

20.42%

 

If i made a ppi payment of £3.28 what is calculated from that. i know it changes annually but what can i expect back from a ppi payment just to see if i am on the right track.

 

For example on the compound interest calculator it asks for a interest rate (apr) that is the 20.42%

 

You need to use this spreadsheet for credit card calculations for PPI redress

 

FosRunningPPI v102.xls

 

because if so a £3.28 charge on 20/06/97 equates to a staggering £56.50 compound interest after 5702 days have elapsed and the 8% simple still to be added which i have not calculated yet. if you could explain this fully i would be appreciated if i am wrong. Thanks for your hard work on this.

 

ims

[slinky252]

Hi ims,

 

How do i copy one of these into here for you to click and see it.

 

Cheers

[ims21]

Hi ims,

 

How do i copy one of these into here for you to click and see it.

 

Cheers

 

Use the "go advanced" button at bottom of a message box, then "Manage Attachments" and you can upload an Excel file and insert it into a post.

 

Do make sure you remove personal identifiers first.

[slinky252]

Thanks ims hope this worked.

 

I have sent a letter back to them which includes the following.

 

Letter from company explaining the error on their part for placing me on an iva lol, quite crazy that to be fair.

Emailed screenshot print from insolvency service showing IVA revoked.

5 Random credit card statements from 1997 - 2007 showing different addresses also.

1 current account statement showing loan and the loan protection they deducted.

and a SAR with every credit card number on it with a £10 postal order.

 

All recorded delivery and they recieved it 08.10 on 30/01/13

 

Hope i have done this the right way within one letter.

 

Cheers Slinky

[ims21]

You have entered the PPI loan as one entry.

 

You need to work out what amount of each monthly payment was for PPI.

 

The monthly payment may be shown on the agreement but of not you can work it out using this formula...

 

PPI Loan / Total Loan Amount (Cash Loan + PPI Loan) x 100.

 

This will give you the percentage of PPI to the total loan.

 

Apply that percentage to your total monthly loan repayment to find out the PPI part of the payment.

 

List those amounts in the spreadsheet. The dates for the list will be the dates the instalments were actually paid.

[slinky252]

Thanks ims,

 

I dont have any details as yet, all i have on a current account statement is the following

 

Total loan ammount £6770.00

Loan protection taken out straight after loan put into acount £1171.93

 

if i do the math you asked its £6770 + £1173.93 = £7943.93 x 100 =794393

 

How does this give me a percentage

does this mean its 7.94%

[slinky252]

Also looking at statements i have here i paid £154.34 on that personal loan each month i have worked out the ppi percentage each month at 7.94% to be £12.25.

 

i think i may have also paid this off early , does that make a difference to a claim even though a settlement figure still included that £1173.93 they took out for loan protection?

[dx100uk]

divide not times!!

 

total cash price for PPI / total cash price for loan X 100 = PCM PPI%

 

as for the settlement figure

 

same thing

 

workout what the PPI PCM% was of every payment.

 

is this the only loan?

 

as if this was paid off with another you'll have rollover

as the refinance will have more int added to the PPI not rebated on settlement?

 

dx

[ims21]

If £6770 was the total loan including the ppi loan of £1173.93 then the maths is

 

1173.93/6770 x 100 = 17.34%

 

If your monthly repayment was £154.13 then the PPI part of that is 17.34% = £26.73 per month.

 

If you paid the loan off early then 17.34% of the settlement amount would be for the PPI but less any rebate you may have got when the loan was settled.

 

The SAR may give you all of the information you need on this.

 

Have a read of No.1 in my signature for more details of the maths involved.

[slinky252]

Hi Guys,

 

Advice needed on this , had first contact with HSBC since sending in full SAR request that i sent along with 5 random statements on credit card from 97 - 06 showing ppi and also evidence of front loaded ppi on loan on one current account statement. They rang me and i was at work, i answered and the guy i was talking to dealt with ppi complaints for the credit card not the loan , he has to forward that to that particular dept to deal with the loan. During the conversation a few points arose and i wonder if i have dealt with this ok.

 

Firstly he said do you want a full SAR i initially said yes then he said if you just want details on credit card statements, loan agreements and bank charges, i can send that for free, i was a bit scepticle but after he said to me you will get a big box with memos and that. so i have agreed to this.

He then told me he only had details back 6 years, i replied with i know that you have paid out ppi for people with credit card ppi going back to 1992 so how is this the case, i mentioned microfish at this point thats how i remembered it (it may be wrong lol) i understand that your data department can get hold of this info. he still said just 6 years.

 

my concern is that i opened this card in 1995 and have used it regularly since then, having statements going back to 2005 is not really gonna help me at all. i wont see agreements i have signed or any of the loan stuff, just glad i have some evidence here although very limited.

 

i asked if you have destroyed my statements you should have destruction certificates, he said he did not know about that he is only ppi complaints department.i said i will request this if i have to in the future. the conversation changed a little, he then said he would dig out any earlier stuff if he could. This seemed strange because originally he said he could only go back 6 years.

 

Ok , so at present i am giving them the chance to get this right first time. he said he would send me the stuff on the credit card he has then forward it to the loan department for the loan ppi. he said they will prob send me an offer after looking at things. I think he intimated that the credit card ppi will be worked out on an average going back to 1995. I dont understand how they can do that when they have no statements.

 

He is gonna destroy the postal order and send me the stuff they have.

 

In this situation , have i handled this the right way or should i have stuck with the full SAR. I did say that i might still request a full SAR in the near future if things dont look right?

 

Do they definately hold data earlier than 2005 on me, if they do where do i go to now and try to get this info if the bank says they have not. do the banks just lie to you?

 

both my brother and dad have a printout from there banks just by going down to them and it shows all the products they have had with them ever, showing ones with insurance, i cant get this from hsbc why?

 

 

 

Should i now complain to someone else to get hold of all this data they say they dont have.

 

I look forward to your advice on this matter guys.

Edited February 19, 2013 by slinky252

[ims21]

Hi

 

Ideally you should have stuck with the full SAR.

 

A guy from the PPI department should not be advising you on what you will/should/might get with the SAR.

 

The statements he is sending will be a starting point but a full SAR may reveal other information that might prove useful to you.

 

We know that some banks do hold information beyond six years old which strangely comes to light after they are pressed or threatened with court action.

 

If it were me I would still be going for a full SAR.

 

As far as averaging goes, if that is what they are going to do, they will take the information they have and average backwards towards a zero balance at the point the account was opened.

[slinky252]

Thanks ims,

 

I have recontacted them and fortunately they have not destroyed the postal order i have now requested a full SAR, but he still states he has only got info back to 2005. And the other departments deal with the rest and then i get all the info they have on me. The PPI complaint will take upto 8 weeks for a response. just strange that i know full well that hsbc does hold info longer than 2005. We will see what happens next.

 

I will post what happens next.

[ims21]

 

Yes, cross the bridges as you come to them.

[slinky252]

Hi guys i had my first offer today after 17 weeks since my complaint.

 

It is for a personal loan with front loaded ppi of £1171.93 taken out on 6th October 2000

 

the offer they have given is £1663.57

 

which includes

 

ppi premium redress of £872.83

 

plus taxable interest at 8% of £790.74 totalling the offer.

 

i am confused i thought it was going to be more and was wandering what you experts think. the loan was paid off in full also.

 

appreciate your knowledgeable thoughts !!

[dx100uk]

what did your spreadsheet tell you?

 

dx

[slinky252]

£2365 dx thats has of today,

 

on the spreadsheet its says monthly payment of ppi it was front loaded so put in whole figure the intrest at 8% simple is £1193.73 so

 

£1171.93 plus 8% simple = £2365 is this correct do you think ?