GE Money Loan paid but have outstanding arrears account.

[Sheila117]

Dear CAG,

Many thanks for reading.

 

I am writing on behalf of my father who isn't very technologically or financially savvy. He yesterday was made redundant which has caused us to begin this quest.

 

In 2002 he took out a 10yr £11.6k secured loan with GE Money (that was the easy bit).

 

In October 2012 he finished off paying the loan.

 

During the 10 year duration of the loan,

he was in and out of work and managed to accrue fees of £5800.

 

This has built up in a separate fee account which is now outstanding.

 

In the past (when he had been out of work) he has had bailiffs calling and a court summoning etc,

which is probably why the account value is so high.

They have also been charging him compound interest on this money.

 

Once he had paid the loan they sent him a letter demanding the full amount of the fees account, which he couldn't pay.

 

we made an arrangement with GE Money that he would pay £200 a month.

They would only accept this arrangement for 3 months,

and then they would review it to see if we could continue like this.

This is how we planned on continuing, until he was made redundant on Monday.

 

The property that it's secured against is a flat worth about £110k which he owned outright until he had this loan secured against it.

I am unsure if he ever signed up for PPI.

 

We feel that we need to tread gently with them because if they demand all of the money then we are in trouble (which will probably cost more).

 

in the short term I'll give him the money to pay the loan with a long term view of me getting a loan to pay it off (to keep the interest paid at a minimum).

 

We are looking for any advice that may be able to help us out before we go down the route of getting a loan in my name.

 

I have read things about reclaiming unfair bank charges and we could look into PPI.

 

My fear is that by pursuing something like this could turn things sour,

with them demanding immediate payment or something along those lines

 

Many Thanks,

Sheila.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Sheila117
I originally got the loan amount wrong

[Sheila117]

Apologies, I should have had a good root around before submitting a new thread.

 

First things first we need to submit a SAR. If we were to do this would it jeopodise our current arrangement with GE Money?

 

Can I ask please what DCA stands for (Debt collection agency?)

 

Thanks.

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG. I can see you've been having a read around. This should be very useful for you.

 

I'm sorry you haven't had replies so far. I've flagged your thread for the site team in case anyone can give you some pointers.

 

My best, HB

[AndyOrch]

Apologies, I should have had a good root around before submitting a new thread.

 

First things first we need to submit a SAR. If we were to do this would it jeopodise our current arrangement with GE Money? No its a legal request

 

Can I ask please what DCA stands for (Debt collection agency?) Correct

 

Thanks.

 

Sheila this separate arrears account ...has it got a different account number?

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Sheila117]

Honeybee and Andy, thanks for your replies.

 

My father is going to check his paperwork so I will respond tomorrow.

I have got some paperwork here which makes me think it's going to have the same account number.

 

This paperwork is from March 2010 so out of date but it may give us an idea:

Monthly Arrears Statement

Original Amount Borrowed: £11,600 (apologies I got the amount wrong in my opening thread - I will ammend)

Monthly Instalment: £161.59

Account Balance: £10,299

Arrears Balance: £624.24

Type of Account: Repayment Mortgage

Original Term: 120 months (10 years)

Loan Start Date: November 2002

Remaining Original Term: 33 Months

 

Total cost to repay the loan: £10,621.71

It seems here that they have amalgamated the loan and the fees.

I'm sorry I don't have the latest information but I will get it tomorrow to confirm the above.

I will also get the SAR sent off ASAP too.

 

From what we read this isn't a quick procedure, I imagine it's best for us to keep paying whilst all of this is going on?

 

Many thanks.

[Sheila117]

I am looking for an address to send the SAR to.

I have found this contact address on their website:

Resolutions Team

GE Money Home Lending

Building 4, Hatters Lane,

Croxley Green Business Park

Watford

WD18 8YF

Shall I send it here addressed to 'Data Controller' instead of 'Resolutions Team'?

 

Searching around I find conflicting addresses to send it to, but as this is on their website I feel it's likely to be the one?

 

Also I am going to send a letter requesting that all further correspondence are carried out using letter only. Does this sound acceptable?

Many thanks.

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

I'm trying to get you the answers to your questions above.

 

HB

[AndyOrch]

I am looking for an address to send the SAR to.

I have found this contact address on their website:

 

Shall I send it here addressed to 'Data Controller' instead of 'Resolutions Team'? Yes

 

Searching around I find conflicting addresses to send it to, but as this is on their website I feel it's likely to be the one? Thats the current one

 

Also I am going to send a letter requesting that all further correspondence are carried out using letter only. Does this sound acceptable? Are they not already?

 

Many thanks.

 

 

Andy

[honeybee13]

Thank you for looking in, Andy.

 

HB

[Sheila117]

Thanks HB and Andy for your replies.

 

No this arrears account doesn't have a seperate account number. In fact it seems to be exactly the same account.

These fees/charges/additional interest were lingering but not showing as an arrear until after the loan was paid off (November 2012).

1212 Latest Statement.pdf

Arrears on Balance at 28th July 2012 £ 0.00

 

I have got some documents from my father and have scanned them in (see below).

He definitely had PPI which he was verbally told he needed for the loan. They acknowledge he had PPI '1002 Response to PPI application.pdf' as once when out of work he went to the CAB for advice, they tried to claim on it only to find it was out of date.

 

A few things that have been highlighted to me by someone; on the credit agreement there is only one signature for both the PPI and Loan, not multiples.

It appears they have been charging interest on the PPI.

 

In regard to the bailiffs - we believe it was an overdraft from another bank that instructed these, I will remove them from post #1.

 

I have got other documents, but mostly statements.

I do however have a Full account statement from 11/2002 - 08/2012. It's a lengthy document but I can scan in if it helps out. I will send off the SAR tomorrow.

 

Many Thanks!

[Sheila117]

This is the SAR that I am going to send. Before I do can someone quickly look over please?

(Address, account no etc)

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY OR ANY COMPANY YOU CLAIM TO REPRESENT.

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

I am investigating whether this account is subject to mis-sold PPI and Unlawful charges therefore, this account is now subject to a Serious formal dispute, therefore any further payments made are to show goodwill and are Without Prejudice.

 

 

Please supply me with copies of all the data which you hold on me in relation to any matter and in any form and for any period of time.

 

Please note that I require disclosure of any personal data which you hold on me for the entire period of my dealings with you.

 

This Subject Access Request includes - but is not limited to any data you hold about me in respect of any matter and held in any form including notes, screen notes, recordings, internal correspondence and external correspondence.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return.

 

If I do not hear from you then I will assume that this Statutory Request is satisfactory and that the 40 day timescale has started.

 

IF YOU UNABLE TO DEAL WITH THIS REQUEST, YOU SHOULD IMMEDIATELY FORWARD IT TO THE PERSON WITHIN YOUR ORGANISATION RESPONSIBLE FOR DATA PROCECTION.

I look forward to hearing from you in the first instance of receipt.

 

 

 

Yours faithfully,

(Sig etc.)

 

Thanks

[AndyOrch]

You dont need that Sheila " I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY OR ANY COMPANY YOU CLAIM TO REPRESENT."

 

Thats only used if the debt has been assigned.

 

You can add and be specific for any document you require within the DSAR.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[jon888999]

Hi Andy etc, I know Sheila and have seen the paperwork,

My thoughts are:

1) PPI was added to the loan as a lump sum at the start, then interest has been charged on PPI?

2) Secondly Only 1 signature was obtained, I thought that the 10k and PPI had to be signed for seperately?

3) The customer was told that PPI was a condition of the loan?

4) The charges seem to be excessive and in no way relate to there costs? £40 per month nearly every month, solicitors fees, debt management etc.

5) Interest has been charged on these charges, and then again on the interest?

As far as I can see GE Money have just used this as a money making scheme!

 

I believe that the customer is actually owed a substantial refund, but i've no experience of secured loans.

 

Lots of other issues to, but probably best to wait for the Sars, although Sheila has quite a good set of records already, Sars have been sent to Ge Money and the PPI Company Sterling.

 

If this was an unsecured loan and it was mine I would tell them to get lost, but being secured I've advised Sheila to tread carefully.

 

if you want to know any other info, i've got the paperwork at the moment and I can call Sheila, it may be difficult for Sheila to log on today.

Take Care

Jon, oh and Sheila don't work too hard today!

[AndyOrch]

Many thanks Jon

 

Looking at the Iloan Group credit agreement (GE Money) it refers to a page 2 and conditions......can you shed any light on the Key Financial Details?

 

Regards

 

Andy

[jon888999]

Many thanks Jon

 

Looking at the Iloan Group credit agreement (GE Money) it refers to a page 2 and conditions......can you shed any light on the Key Financial Details?

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

I'll have a look.

[jon888999]

Many thanks Jon

 

Looking at the Iloan Group credit agreement (GE Money) it refers to a page 2 and conditions......can you shed any light on the Key Financial Details?

 

Regards

 

Andy

I think this is what you want?

Hope you can read it, if not i'll try to get a better scan.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]40946[/ATTACH]

[AndyOrch]

Thats fine

[Sheila117]

I have today sent the SARs off. I used a different template in the end as felt it was more specific. I sent both to GE Money and Cigna. Cigna were the providers of the Insurance.

Cigna:

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Data Protection Act 1998 – Full Subject Access Request.

 

Please supply me with all data that you hold on me. This includes in particular, but is not limited to, the following:-

 

1. The original signed, executed credit agreement/s and any terms and conditions that applied to the account/s at the time of default and at the time the account/s was/were opened.

 

2. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with ORIGINAL CREDITOR. - delete or add this depending on whether you are sending this to the original creditor/or a debt collection agency

 

3. True copies of any notice of assignment and default notices or enforcement notice that you/or name of the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

 

4. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account/s, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date/s they were/ it was added and deleted. (if applicable).

 

5. Details of any collection charges added to the account/s; specifically, the date they were/it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was/charges were calculated, and what the charge covers/charges cover.

 

6. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account/these accounts and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

 

7. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

8. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

 

9. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement/s.

 

10.Termination notices

 

PLEASE NOTE that unless otherwise stated by yourselves and if the above documents are NOT provided, it will be CONFIRMED that you are unable to reproduce/provide in any way shape or form any copies of the above requested documents. You are reminded that you have a duty to inform me if you do not have the above documents. This is confirmed in High Court Law - Ezsias v Welsh Ministers - [2007] All ER (D) 65 (Dec)

 

You are reminded that you are obliged to supply all the above documents in line with the Information Commissioners Technical Guidance update (Dated August 2007)

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

 

IF YOU UNABLE TO DEAL WITH THIS REQUEST, YOU SHOULD IMMEDIATELY FORWARD IT TO THE PERSON WITHIN YOUR ORGANISATION RESPONSIBLE FOR DATA PROCECTION.

I look forward to hearing from you in the first instance of receipt.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

GE Money:

Dear Sir/Madam

 

I am investigating whether this account is subject to mis-sold PPI and Unlawful charges therefore, this account is now subject to a Serious formal dispute, therefore any further payments made are to show goodwill and are Without Prejudice.

 

All further communications must be made in writing.

 

Data Protection Act 1998 – Full Subject Access Request.

 

Please supply me with all data that you hold on me. This includes in particular, but is not limited to, the following:-

 

1. The original signed, executed credit agreement/s and any terms and conditions that applied to the account/s at the time of default and at the time the account/s was/were opened.

 

2. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with ORIGINAL CREDITOR. - delete or add this depending on whether you are sending this to the original creditor/or a debt collection agency

 

3. True copies of any notice of assignment and default notices or enforcement notice that you/or name of the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

 

4. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account/s, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date/s they were/ it was added and deleted. (if applicable).

 

5. Details of any collection charges added to the account/s; specifically, the date they were/it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was/charges were calculated, and what the charge covers/charges cover.

 

6. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account/these accounts and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

7. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

8. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

 

9. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement/s.

 

10.Termination notices

 

PLEASE NOTE that unless otherwise stated by yourselves and if the above documents are NOT provided, it will be CONFIRMED that you are unable to reproduce/provide in any way shape or form any copies of the above requested documents. You are reminded that you have a duty to inform me if you do not have the above documents. This is confirmed in High Court Law - Ezsias v Welsh Ministers - [2007] All ER (D) 65 (Dec)

 

You are reminded that you are obliged to supply all the above documents in line with the Information Commissioners Technical Guidance update (Dated August 2007)

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

 

IF YOU UNABLE TO DEAL WITH THIS REQUEST, YOU SHOULD IMMEDIATELY FORWARD IT TO THE PERSON WITHIN YOUR ORGANISATION RESPONSIBLE FOR DATA PROCECTION.

I look forward to hearing from you in the first instance of receipt.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

As I have previously said, my father has been paying £200 a month by Direct Debit post completion of the loan. This is due to be reviewed at the end of February.

Now he has been made redundant he will be on Job Seekers allowance (approx £70 per week).

 

Ultimately he cannot afford to continue paying near this amount. If he were to stop paying would this put us in a worst state, is it likely that they'll repossess his property?

I am able to give him the money to pay if necessary, and if really necessary I could hopefully get a personal loan to cover the outstanding amount.

Because it is secured and ultimately a mortgage, not paying could make things worse?

 

Before we found CAG I phoned GE Money. I said that now the loan was paid off and it's just charges and fees outstanding, will the deeds to his property be released. They said that they would only be released after the outstanding balance was paid off.

 

Thanks.

S

[dx100uk]

IMHO he is being fleeced blind!!

 

DID this goto court?

 

dx

[Sheila117]

Hi Dx, thanks for your reply.

 

He is sure it did, but can't remember the outcome, nor does he have any paperwork for it. It was a long time ago if it did.

He remembers receiving a letter saying that he didn't have to attend, so he didnt!

 

Sadly we might have to wait for SAR to return before we know for sure.

[jon888999]

IMHO he is being fleeced blind!!

 

 

dx

 

That's my thoughts.

[jon888999]

Hi Dx, thanks for your

 

Sadly we might have to wait for SAR to return before we know for sure.

You could check on registry trust if a ccj has been issued. Not sure how things work with secured loans though. Would land registry show anything?

[dx100uk]

sar wont tell you

 

www.trustonline.org.uk

 

or get his CRA file

 

dx

[Sheila117]

Just to confirm, on trustonline I believe we require:

Section 1: CCJs, Administration Orders, and the Child Support Agency.

?

S

[dx100uk]

yes

 

dx