Cancelling PDL authority - how hard does it have to be!

[lee79]

My wife called our bank to cancel the authority for a PDL company to take any further money from the account. Now we should have been suspicious as the person was very helpful. They confirmed that the instruction had been cancelled and that they were sending out forms to reclaim the last payment made in December, despite telling them that we are not disputing the last payment.

 

So this was the 17 Jan and the payment was due for 20 Jan. However, what we didn't realise is that the company was taking the payment earlier due to the payment date being a Sunday and that there was less than 24 hours. The bank didn't inform us of this either.

 

So I spoke to a few people today, still not realising that the reason it went out was due to it being collected earlier due to the 20th being on a Sunday. These people were the most unhelpful people ever. They somehow think I can see that is on their systems.

 

Anyway, it turns out that we now have to reclaim the payment so it's good that we're getting the dispute forms meant for the December's payment as we can use these.

 

However, I was also told that I can't go down to the bank and hand in my instruction in writing as I offered to do. I have to fill in certain forms for this particular type of transaction to get the instruction cancelled, which the original person failed to mention as they were assuring my wife the instruction had been cancelled.

 

Not only that, but the person we spoke to today even said that after completing the forms they cannot guarantee the payments would be stopped!!

 

Does it really need to be this difficult? I also get the impression from the people that I spoke to that if one of their colleagues makes a mistake then it stops with that colleague. No one was taking responsibility of the problem it seemed. What was most irritating was the first person I called kept saying 'you're only hearing what you want to hear' every time I or my wife didn't agree with her. She even used the phrase when she told my wife the money might not go out and my wife had to point out it had already left, that's why she was calling!

 

Anyway rant over. With the process involved it's more than likely that next month will come and go again before we get the form, complete them, return them and they eventually pull their fingers out.

[Lottielox85]

My wife called our bank to cancel the authority for a PDL company to take any further money from the account. Now we should have been suspicious as the person was very helpful. They confirmed that the instruction had been cancelled and that they were sending out forms to reclaim the last payment made in December, despite telling them that we are not disputing the last payment.

 

So this was the 17 Jan and the payment was due for 20 Jan. However, what we didn't realise is that the company was taking the payment earlier due to the payment date being a Sunday and that there was less than 24 hours. The bank didn't inform us of this either.

 

So I spoke to a few people today, still not realising that the reason it went out was due to it being collected earlier due to the 20th being on a Sunday. These people were the most unhelpful people ever. They somehow think I can see that is on their systems.

 

Anyway, it turns out that we now have to reclaim the payment so it's good that we're getting the dispute forms meant for the December's payment as we can use these.

 

However, I was also told that I can't go down to the bank and hand in my instruction in writing as I offered to do. I have to fill in certain forms for this particular type of transaction to get the instruction cancelled, which the original person failed to mention as they were assuring my wife the instruction had been cancelled.

 

Not only that, but the person we spoke to today even said that after completing the forms they cannot guarantee the payments would be stopped!!

 

Does it really need to be this difficult? I also get the impression from the people that I spoke to that if one of their colleagues makes a mistake then it stops with that colleague. No one was taking responsibility of the problem it seemed. What was most irritating was the first person I called kept saying 'you're only hearing what you want to hear' every time I or my wife didn't agree with her. She even used the phrase when she told my wife the money might not go out and my wife had to point out it had already left, that's why she was calling!

 

Anyway rant over. With the process involved it's more than likely that next month will come and go again before we get the form, complete them, return them and they eventually pull their fingers out.

 

Almost impossible. I wrote to lloyds requesting they cancel the CPA. They wrote back saying they couldn't and allowed over £200 to be taken causing an unauthorised overdraft and for some direct debits to bounce. I wrote back a formal complaint quoting the law and insisting they refunded me and canceled the authority. Hand delivered this into branch. Currently awaiting a reply from them but no money has left my account since! I think the threat of being reported for illegal actions might have kicked them into gear!

[Crocdoc]

Attach the following to your claim and in the interim period write to your bank and attach the following (Keep a copy)

Regulation 55 of The Payment Services Regulations 2009:

 

55.—(1) A payment transaction is to be regarded as having been authorised by the payer for the purposes of this Part only if the payer has given its consent to—

 

(a)the execution of the payment transaction; or .

(b)the execution of a series of payment transactions of which that payment transaction forms part. .

(2) Such consent—

 

(a)may be given before or, if agreed between the payer and its payment service provider, after the execution of the payment transaction; and .

(b)must be given in the form, and in accordance with the procedure, agreed between the payer and its payment service provider. .

(3) The payer may withdraw its consent to a payment transaction at any time before the point at which the payment order can no longer be revoked under regulation 67.

 

(4) Subject to regulation 67(3) to (5), the payer may withdraw its consent to the execution of a series of payment transactions at any time with the effect that any future payment transactions are not regarded as authorised for the purposes of this Part.

 

This means that you can simply ask your bank to refuse the payments, it is also good practice to let the lender know too.

 

So, if you would like your creditor to stop trying to take a payment all you need to do, in theory, is to inform them that you remove their authority. It's probably better to do this in writing and via recorded delivery - if possible.

 

You can learn more about your rights via the following fsa guide :

Ending recurring payments from credit cards

 

57 Recurring payments, is the term used to describe transactions for which a client has granted written permission for her/his credit or debit card to be debited for recurring goods or services, for example, club membership subscriptions, insurance cover or payday loans. The card may be debited annually, monthly or at other regular intervals.

58 In most cases, recurring payments can be cancelled by telling the trader taking the payments. However, a client has the right to withdraw consent by simply telling whoever issued the card (the bank, building society or credit card company) that s/he does not want a payment to be made. S/he can tell the card issuer by phone, email or letter.

59 The card issuer has no right to insist that the client ask the trader to stop taking the payment first. The card issuer has to stop the payments if the client has asked them to. The client could point out to the card issuer that they should follow the FSA guidance available in the FSA Know your rights booklet which is available on the FSA website at www.fsa.gov.uk.

59a If money is still taken from the client's account, it will be deemed to be an unauthorised transaction, and the card issuer must give her/him an immediate refund. The card issuer will have to cancel any interest and charges added to the her/his account because the payment was taken. It is not up to the client to prove that s/he told the card issuer to stop taking payments. Instead, the card issuer would have to prove that s/he did not tell them to stop making payments.

60 The client should make a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service when all the internal complaints systems within the company issuing the card have been exhausted.

I hope this information is of assistance

[renegadeimp]

Almost impossible. I wrote to lloyds requesting they cancel the CPA. They wrote back saying they couldn't and allowed over £200 to be taken causing an unauthorised overdraft and for some direct debits to bounce. I wrote back a formal complaint quoting the law and insisting they refunded me and canceled the authority. Hand delivered this into branch. Currently awaiting a reply from them but no money has left my account since! I think the threat of being reported for illegal actions might have kicked them into gear!

 

 

Do you have a copy of that letter you sent and their reply? If so, the bank are at fault and you need to issue a formal complaint with the CEO. You could also file a complaint under BCOBS.

[lee79]

Almost impossible. I wrote to lloyds requesting they cancel the CPA. They wrote back saying they couldn't and allowed over £200 to be taken causing an unauthorised overdraft and for some direct debits to bounce. I wrote back a formal complaint quoting the law and insisting they refunded me and canceled the authority. Hand delivered this into branch. Currently awaiting a reply from them but no money has left my account since! I think the threat of being reported for illegal actions might have kicked them into gear!

 

That's the frustrating thing. Rather than just say 'yes' they have to be awkward and have you make complaints to get what you're entitled to.

[renegadeimp]

Hi lee. Thats mainly because if your account goes overdrawn, then they can pile on charges and make money from you. Before the law was changed to allow the account holder to cancel a CPA, banks were making huge amounts of cash.

[lee79]

 

Thanks for the information Crocdoc.

 

I had the FSA website to hand that had the latter part of your reply on it. This was before I realised that it was too late to cancel the transaction - bearing in mind that the payment was not due yet and the person my wife spoke to had confirmed that the payment had been cancelled. I'll definitely forward this info on now though as I'm sure 3 weeks is long enough!

 

The problem is you don't know who to believe! My wife's call should have been sufficient according to your post so is the next one cancelled? Yet the guy I spoke to tried to convince me I had to complete forms to stop it and simply requesting it via writing was not good enough.

[lee79]

If I contact the company direct with the information already supplied in this thread, what would be the likely outcome? My fear is that they would ignore the request and take the money as soon as they hear from us.

[renegadeimp]

Take a deep breath It will be ok.

 

Regarding CPA's. To cancel them you have to instruct the bank in good time. This is usually a few hours before close of business the day before the transaction or when you want it cancelled.

 

If money has been taken out before that instruction, then you can make a complaint under BCOBS to the bank, as they refuse to refund a fraudulant transaction. They are obliged to cancel or hold that transaction and perform a full investigation. They cannot simply say "tough luck".

[lee79]

Thanks renegadeimp. Going to contact them again to further inform them that we've withdrawn all authority to CG to take money from our account.

 

As far as I'm concerned the person my wife spoke to told my wife that the instruction had been cancelled yet the money was taken and still not returned to us so I'll look into the BCOBS you mentioned later and have a good read and I'll be back should I have any questions.

 

Lee.

[biggeorge]

Had a similar problem with Halifax, Hand delivered a letter in canceling CPA and also followed up with recorded delivery too.

Got a letter back saying they could not stop the payment so I wrote again explaining the law to them and they wrote back saying the CPA

was now canceled and no payments will go out.

Just writing to them now for all the charges that occurred while they were not following my instructions to be paid back.

 

George

[lee79]

Had a similar problem with Halifax, Hand delivered a letter in canceling CPA and also followed up with recorded delivery too.

Got a letter back saying they could not stop the payment so I wrote again explaining the law to them and they wrote back saying the CPA

was now canceled and no payments will go out.

Just writing to them now for all the charges that occurred while they were not following my instructions to be paid back.

 

George

 

The disgusting thing though is that when you point out to them their responsibilities/the law you know it's not news to them.

[Crocdoc]

I understand that the banks are SLOWLY being brought to heel on this one. I am informed that free advice agencies are collating multiple complaints. The problem of course is that the banks are reluctant to become involved in anything that is fair to the consumer as they don't make any money from it. Just look at PPI, LIBOR and Acount Charges.

 

Don't forget that bonus payments are a priority in the eyes of the bank.

 

However, I am aware of a recent case involving CPA , the company taking the money from an 18 year old were based in Scandanavia, the amount involved was in excess of £300.00. The bank in this case point blank refused to cancel the CPA until Trading Standards became involved at which point the bank cancelled the ongiong arrangement and paid a full refund from the date the account holder made the request for cancellation.

[lee79]

However, I am aware of a recent case involving CPA , the company taking the money from an 18 year old were based in Scandanavia, the amount involved was in excess of £300.00. The bank in this case point blank refused to cancel the CPA until Trading Standards became involved at which point the bank cancelled the ongiong arrangement and paid a full refund from the date the account holder made the request for cancellation.

 

This is the scenario I'm wanting to avoid more than anything. Actions like this, when it's set out with no possibility of confusion over an individuals right to cancel these payments, show that the potential repercussions on an individual case are nothing compared to what they can make from acting like this overall.

[lee79]

Just another quick question. Are there other,similar payments, as well as the CPA? The reason I ask is that I just remembered that the person referred to the transactions as 'online transactions'. The only thing that went off online was the application. Other than that the money was taken monthly, just like a CPA.

[Crocdoc]

This is the scenario I'm wanting to avoid more than anything. Actions like this, when it's set out with no possibility of confusion over an individuals right to cancel these payments, show that the potential repercussions on an individual case are nothing compared to what they can make from acting like this overall.

 

I agree entirely the banks SHOULD cancel without question as the legislation is abundantly clear, the example I gave was purely to demonstrate that they do buckle when questioned. What is required is that in circumstances where the banks refuse to cancel, a complaint should be forwarded to the banks requesting a refund. If they don't comply refer the matter to the FOS. (cancellation should always be done in writing and a copy retained a letter should also state that you will seek a refund from the bank should they fail to comply with your instruction.

 

 

If enough complaints are raised the banks WILL get the hang of it. I do however agree that in the perfect world such measures should not be required

[lee79]

So, this is some of the email I received in response to my complaint

 

I would like to advise that these payments to PDL are recurring card payments where you have supplied your card details to PDL and they are taking regular repayments of money owing to them. PDL does not have to set up an instruction with Santander for this, as you voluntarily supplied them with your card details.

 

If it was a direct debit, then there would be an instruction to us from PDL which you would have completed and we could then cancel the instruction as you would be covered by the direct debit indemnity scheme. As this was a card payment, Santander can query this under the VISA dispute scheme with PDL but they may not be a member of this scheme as it is voluntary.

 

As your details were provided voluntarily to them, we are unable to prevent them from taking card payments, whether they are a member of the scheme or not. We approach them and ask them to stop taking the payments as you have asked us to stop the payments; however it is up to PDL whether or not they will agree to this.

 

Can someone help please?

Edited February 18, 2013 by lee79

[renegadeimp]

Satander are lying. They sent the same letter to another poster last year, yet when we pushed the poster to dig deeper, there was indeed a CPA attached to the account.

 

Perhaps they need reminding of Regulation 55 of The Payment Services Regulations 2009.

[lee79]

If it helps I'll attach the full response as they've confirmed that the payment IS by CPA. I even sent the regulations to them in the complaint.

[renegadeimp]

What you need to do if they refuse to stop the CPA, is ask them for a final response, so you can escalate it to the FOS and FSA as they are openly and willingly breaking the law.

[citizenB]

If it was a card payment then you should be able to do a charge back.

 

Santander are one of the worst. They are even ignoring the FSA instructions.

[renegadeimp]

Which is why a final response is needed, so you can get the regulators to clamp down on them. The FOS are duty bound to do something, as if they dont, then they would be agreeing with santander breaking the law and wouldnt be fit for purpose.

[lee79]

Thank you for your emails of 1 February and 10 February 2013. I have tried ringing you several times on the residential telephone number we hold for you and the mobile number we hold for you to discuss this matter, but unfortunately I have not been able to speak to you.

 

I understand that you are unhappy with our dispute procedure and as we have not stopped this recurrent payment to PDL as a further payment left your account on 18th January 2013 for £25.50. When you called to raise the dispute we raised it for the wrong payment under our ref 6192912 when you actually wanted to raise the dispute for the Jan 18 2013 payment of £25.50. You were happy for the December payment to go through. I can see that you have bee misinformed about how the dispute/recurring card payment process works every time you have contacted us regarding this and that you have been upset by the attitude of the staff members at Santander you have spoken to.

I would like to advise that these payments to PDL are recurring card payments where you have supplied your card details to PDL and they are taking regular repayments of money owing to them. PDL does not have to set up an instruction with Santander for this, as you voluntarily supplied them with your card details. If it was a direct debit, then there would be an instruction to us from PDL which you would have completed and we could then cancel the instruction as you would be covered by the direct debit indemnity scheme. As this was a card payment, Santander can query this under the VISA dispute scheme with PDL but they may not be a member of this scheme as it is voluntary. As your details were provided voluntarily to them, we are unable to prevent them from taking card payments, whether they are a member of the scheme or not. We approach them and ask them to stop taking the payments as you have asked us to stop the payments; however it is up to PDL whether or not they will agree to this.

I would like to offer you my sincere apologies for the exceedingly poor customer service you have received from our staff as you have been misadvised every step of the way. We are in the process of revising the card dispute/recurring payments process to make it simpler for both our customers and our own staff. Therefore further training will be provided to our telephone customer services staff shortly.

I would like to refund the £25.50 that was debited from your account on the 18 January 2013. I would also like to offer you £50.00 in compensation. This is to compensate you for the telephone calls you have had to make, the time you have had to spend trying to resolve this matter and by way of apology.

Before I close your complaint I would still like to discuss this with you, please can you contact me on quoting my name and the reference. I am in the office today from 9am - 5.30pm. I will happily call you straight back or refund the cost of this call to you. Alternatively if you are unable to spare the time to speak to me, please reply to this message if you would like to accept my resolution and I will carry out all the actions promised above and confirm this to you in writing.

Yours sincerely

Meg Medlicott Hayward Customer Resolution Manager Central Complaints, Santander

Edited February 19, 2013 by lee79

[lee79]

The above is the response full. Should I reply asking for a final response or should I approach it a different way.

 

Thanks for the help everyone

[renegadeimp]

Lets look at it another way. If they arent CPA's ( they are), then why hasnt santander told you to cancel the card and get a new one? I wonder if Santander realises that their logic just doesn't work.

 

They've offered you compensation, so they know they are in the wrong. It seem's like they are hoping you will accept the compensation and absolve them of all blame.