Railway ticket: Student arrested using photocopy discount card

[BazzaS]

Yes thats the story.

He is a foreign student, studying in the UK.

He keeps a scanned copy of all their documents on the internet

- something I would advise other people to do when they travel abroad

 

When they arrived back in UK (they had passport, thats the only document they need), they had forgotten all of the other documents , and also house keys

 

They *own* a valid student discount card, which they are now in possession

 

If the story were wildly different , I wouldn't waste your (or my) time trying to seek help here

 

@honeybee - yes as you say it is essential to get opposing views/ look for chinks in the story, as a magistrate or jury might. But as well as a help forum, this is also here to *support consumers* in their actions. "Bang to rights" and "plead guilty" are not examples of helpful or supportive behaviour that one would expect to see in a forum such as this

 

 

What if the person has been caught "bang to rights", is going to be found guilty, so the best way for them to limit their punishment is to "plead guilty"?

In that case, absolutely the right advice is then "bang to rights" and "plead guilty" : there is no point in trying to waffle / make it more palatable if that is the best advice.

 

You can't ask for advice and then decide you only want posted the advice you prefer. Advice gets posted and you can choose what advice to take.

 

If you can't explain why you feel those terms don't apply, as long as the poster isn't using foul or abusive language : why shouldn't they post their opinion?. Just because it isn't the answer you wanted doesn't automatically make it

a) wrong, or

b) unhelpful.

 

You might disagree that it is "bang to rights" (but, you haven't yet explained why you disagree), and you might disagree that he should plead guilty (again, posting why you feel intent hasn't been established : in a previous post I asked if he'd been offered a Penalty Fare : see below).

 

I note that I pointed out that you getting the original Railcard sent to the UK was unlikely to influence things, and that you haven't noted any response to that, nor clarified many of the queries raised by myself or other posters.

 

This may limit the validity or utility of advice offered.

 

 

As a question for the industry experts:

Person A has a discounted (YP Railcard / Network Railcard / Senior/ HM Forces / Etc.) ticket, and the railcard isn't valid.

This makes the "discounted" ticket invalid.

 

If the member of rail staff feels this wasn't deliberate, can they:

a) issue an excess to correct the issue?

b) if an excess is appropriate, but the traveller doesn't have those funds on them, issue an UFN?

c) issue a PFN if in a PF area?.

 

I accept that if the member of staff feels this was deliberate that none of the above may be applicable, and a report should be made.

 

I also note that on this thread it wasn't "Report -> TOC letter -> TOC summons", but a charge by the police, and prosecution by CPS.

 

Thanks, BazzaS : (still learning as I go along).

Edited January 23, 2013 by BazzaS

[Old-CodJA]

If, from the 'evidence' posted by a person seeking help on this and other forums, it is the considered opinion of those respondents who have knowledge of the law and processes relevant to the query in hand that the alleged offender is guilty and would be best advised to plead accordingly, it would be entirely wrong and misleading for the respondent to state otherwise.

 

All of the suggestions that have been aired on this forum are in reply to 'evidence' suggested by the original post

 

Having monitored this and the thread on another site, I think that the best possible suggestions for dealing with the matter have been given by those whose line of work this is.

 

It is essential that your friend seeks the advice of a qualified criminal defence lawyer.

[45002]

I wouldn't be surprised if OP was the person arrested and charged with the offence anyway

 

OP only listening to advice they agree with

 

OP is Not telling the correct story IMO

 

If OP is seeking advice on another forum,let them get to the Truth out of the OP...

 

chillysnow posted on 21st January 2013 14:04

 

My friend is a foreign student studying at uni here. He left his documents in his home country at Christmas by accident, but always keeps copies here in UK - eg drivving licence , visa etc

 

chillysnow was 1st asked how did he get back into the UK on photo copies of passport/visa on 21st January 2013 16:08 but refused to Answer

 

 

But now the following story was posted at 09:09 23/01/2013

 

Yes thats the story.

He is a foreign student, studying in the UK.

He keeps a scanned copy of all their documents on the internet

- something I would advise other people to do when they travel abroad

 

When they arrived back in UK (they had passport, thats the only document they need), they had forgotten all of the other documents , and also house keys

 

They *own* a valid student discount card, which they are now in possession

 

If the story were wildly different , I wouldn't waste your (or my) time trying to seek help here

 

@honeybee - yes as you say it is essential to get opposing views/ look for chinks in the story, as a magistrate or jury might. But as well as a help forum, this is also here to *support consumers* in their actions. "Bang to rights" and "plead guilty" are not examples of helpful or supportive behaviour that one would expect to see in a forum such as this

 

 

 

Sorry but this thread has become a joke and complete waist of bloody time !

Edited January 23, 2013 by 45002

[Nystagmite]

How do you forget all documents apart from your passport? I could understand forgetting, say, one or two documents.

[*RainbowTears*]

I'm not being rude or anything but as this story has unfolded, it is making less sense.

 

1- OPs friend travelled on Saturday with a photocopy & was caught. As the OP stated all documents Visa etc all left behind in another Country as per post on 21st.

 

Yet now according to the OP on 23rd '' They *own* a valid student discount card, which they are now in possession''

 

Blimey if only Royal Mail could deliver my mail just as quick as International mail.

 

This is apart from the question asked several times by 45002 regarding entry back into the UK, as OP went from stating ''all documents Visa etc all were left behind'' to now there being a Passport!

 

Sorry this simply doesn't add up & if we can see this, gawd only knows what the Met/BTP prosecution/CPS or Court will think. (sorry I'm lost myself as to whose involved in this)

[BazzaS]

How do you forget all documents apart from your passport? I could understand forgetting, say, one or two documents.

 

Other than helping to see if we are being given a clear and consistent account of events ("you can't build a house on quicksand"), I'm not sure the "why" of why the OP/their friend didn't have the original, only a copy, matters.

 

If they only had a copy, it wasn't valid for use, and the accompanying discounted ticket then was invalid.

 

The "why" goes only to mitigation, not finding of guilty or not guilty.

 

(In other cases it might become a factor in persuading a TOC not to prosecute, but in this case the TOC isn't making that decision, CPS is already proceeding)

 

Edited to add: it now appears the person charged is in the UK on a visa. This adds further weight to OC's advice to obtain professional legal advice, if the person charged might have their immigration status put at risk by a conviction .....

[45002]

Be interesting to know if chillysnow is posting on another forum about the same subject ?

 

Is the same story been told "copy and paste" or a comply different story been told !

[Old-CodJA]

Be interesting to know if chillysnow is posting on another forum about the same subject ?

 

Is the same story been told "copy and paste" or a comply different story been told !

 

 

Yes, a remarkably similar story is posted on another forum and has had remarkably similar responses.