been suspended for fraud and theft

[notamug]

Got suspended saturday for these allegations I have no idea what they are relating to and employer is refusing to say. Have a disciplianry investigation meeting tuesday I do not feel comfortable attending as i will be questioned and I have no idea about what.

Need time to see what they accusing and prepare ny defence.

 

What is the law can they really be this blunt fraud and theft of company stock or do they have to reveal the specific details before attending meetings

 

Many thanks in advance guys

 

This is the second investigation got suspended for being awol and investigation was closed saturday as no case to answer and then this one was brought to light.

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

Is this connected with your previous thread please? It might help the guys if they have some background.

 

My best, HB

[notamug]

No want advice just on this disciplinary

 

Cheers hb

[BankFodder]

There is no law - but you are expected to attend and required to do so by your contract - either express or implied.

You don't have to say anything and it might be an idea if you go there, take notes but say nothing - other than a denial if that is the truth of the matter.

 

It is common for employers not to give details in advance. Frankly I always think that this is silly and is poor practice - but for some reason many employers seem to feel that you will have some advantage if you are allowed to know of the alleagtions in advance. Personally I think that this is evidence of an immaturity in respect of the handling of this kind of problem.

 

Go along with it - you have no choice. Make notes, be careful of what you say. Don't be aggressive. If it is all untrue then be as cooperative as possible. If it is true then be as honest and as contrite as you can be.

[notamug]

I have not stolen or defrauded the company in any way. The whole team have been told of these allegations and my name has been marked yet I am still to find out why

[notamug]

The 'investigating officer' for this investigation is the same who done prior for being awol although he knew from the start it was rubbish as I had infact finished my rotad shift. It was nfa. Also he investigated a greivence and said not points uphelp no case to answer this I am appealing so im not happy with him doing 3rd investigation as hes trying to get me out

[notamug]

I am that confident of my innocence I will be telling them that there accusing me of 2 criminal offences so please involve the police and see if they find me guilty in a court of law

[Sidewinder]

Hi - and sorry for your predicament

 

In law, your employer needs to have a 'reasonable belief' that you committed the offence. This can be either because you were caught red-handed, or more commonly, that they have conducted an investigation and that there were sufficient grounds for them to form that 'reasonable belief'.

 

Of course you cannot be expected to defend something that you know little about, so need to get and digest a copy of the company's disciplinary procedures, and if they do not have one (they certainly should), then read the ACAS guidance and code

 

http://www.acas.org.uk/media/pdf/s/o/Acas-Guide-on-discipline-and-grievances_at_work_(April_11)-accessible-version-may-2012.pdf

 

http://www.acas.org.uk/media/pdf/k/b/Acas_Code_of_Practice_1_on_disciplinary_and_grievance_procedures-accessible-version-Jul-2012.pdf

 

It would be contrary to natural justice for you not to know the case against you and to be provided with details of any evidence and witness statements prior to any meeting which may determine your fate.

 

I would therefore say that it is essential that you request whatever documents you need first thing tomorrow and subject to being able to form a defence and arrange a colleague or Union rep to attend the meeting with you (as is your right and you should have been informed of this), you need to ask for a postponement of the disciplinary hearing until this is in hand.

 

Of course the above applies to a disciplinary, but not an investigatory hearing - are you sure that you have been asked to attend a DISCIPLINARY hearing and have you been given the right to be accompanied?

 

How long have you been there?

[notamug]

Its a disciplinary investigation meeting as said in first thread. And I have been told im entitled to be accompined. Its a major company with managers who aint got a clue and one central hr department

[Sidewinder]

Apologies - missed that in your OP.

 

In that case, you are not entitled necessarily at this stage to know precise details. That should be made apparent at the investigatory stage, and a disciplinary hearing convened, if deemed necessary at the outcome of the investigation, for a later date. You should not be disciplined at the investigation stage - that needs a proper hearing and you should be warned if they consider it a matter which might result in dismissal. Before the DH you would have to know precise details of the evidence, if any, and are entitled to ask for any witness statements.

 

Resist the temptation to walk into traps or to get into arguments. If you can't answer, then state that you need more information, or time to collect your thoughts. Take notes, and agree their content and both sign them before leaving the meeting. Remember this is NOT a court of law, and the employer needs only a 'reasonable belief' not proof 'beyond reasonable doubt', so if you are innocent, then think of ways that you can prove your innocence - or at least disprove their belief in your guilt - categorically.

[notamug]

This investigating officer dismissed me via email with no notice I contacted hr and they overturned decision immediatly saying email was sent by mistake. Then he suspends me an hour later and had a awol investigation for 3 weeks found to be no case to answer we all knew this from day one and as soon as that investigation closed this one appears

[fletch70]

I hope it goes well. Remember this is only an investigation meeting to see if there are grounds. You have no automatic entitlement to be accompanied but there is no harm in asking.

I have been there and gone through it all so do know what i am talking about.

As everyone says,think carefully before you answer any questions.

At this point try not to antagonise them.

[Sidewinder]

Might also be worth submitting a grievance on the grounds that you believe the impartiality of any proceedings might be adversely affected by the previous events and the involvement of the manager concerned.

[notamug]

Can I raise that tuesday as want to go there and see what the allegations are and then decide where to go. Can I halt meting by giving him a letter to that effect He aint getting away given me a theft and fraud marker to colleagues

[stu007]

Hi notamug

 

Just to clarify for you as this is just at the 'Investigation Stage' legally you are not entitled to be accompined by either a work colleague or union representative unless the Companies Policy states so. When it is at the 'Disciplinary Stage' you then have the Right to be accompanied by either a Work Colleague or Union Representative.

 

Now I would ask the company concerned for a copy for a Copy of their Disciplinary and Grievance Policy and Procedure and for a copy of the Investigation Policy and Procedure that way you will know if they are following their own policies and procedures.

 

NOTE - If they say its in the Companies Staff/Employee Handbook bear in mind this will probably be a shortened edited version ( you want the full unedited version and when you get these please check the date approved and importantly the Next Review Date)

 

Some things to consider for the investigation:

 

Exactly what Date and Time did this incident occur?

Are their any Witnesses?

Are their any Witness Statement? - (Can you be provided with copies?)

Is their CCTV Footage? - (Can you be provided with a copy of the Footage and the Companies Policy and Procedure for CCTV?)

Under which Companies Policies and Procedures have I breached? - (Can you be provided with copies)

 

(This is just me thinking aloud of some questions i would consider asking even at investigation stage in Bullet Point fashion to take with you to meeting as you can still ask these questions)

 

Always get Proof of posting and keep a good paper trail.

 

Please keep us updated to your meeting on tuesday and if you need any further advice CAG is always here.

 

This link to the ACAS Website may be of use: www.acas.org.uk/

 

These PDFs from same link may also be of use:

Edited January 21, 2013 by stu007

[Sidewinder]

These PDFs from same link may also be of use:

 

In fact of so much use that they are already linked in Post #8

 

Please keep up!

[stu007]

Hi

 

Oops SOZ Sidewinder missed that my fault

[renegadeimp]

Just to note, while you are not entitled to representation in an investigation interview, they cannot refuse for you to have representation if you feel you need it.

[Emmzzi]

Just to note, while you are not entitled to representation in an investigation interview, they cannot refuse for you to have representation if you feel you need it.

Link to that law please.. New one on me. Unless you are suggesting some kind of disability support?

[renegadeimp]

Im just going by experience and representing dozens of people in my last job at investigations and disciplinaries. most of the time the people i represented felt intimidated so they called me in to represent them.

[fletch70]

Emmzzi, I suspect that renegade is referring to good practise if there are.mental health problems. They have every right to refuse at this level. However this is not representation it is merely a "friend" to hold your hand so to speak. This friend must fall within the allowable rules for disciplinary.

 

Is this a retail outlet of the company. If so i suspect that there has been some till shortages or maybe a bad stocktake and the manager is looking to save his arse

Edited January 21, 2013 by Sidewinder
Removed employer's name

[san_d]

I advise the OP not to name the employer. They might have an automatic online search for their name in discussion groups.

[fletch70]

Sorry he had already told us.

[notamug]

The posts have been removed

[notamug]

Got this later this afternoon, any last minute advice guys