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Please help.

Age discrimination at recruitment stage.

ET Deadline 7th February 2013.

I wish to submit ET1 on the 23th January 2013.

Events log (this has been edited just in case).

I can email real event log and EHR EQA 2010 Questionnaire later if required

1. I found a job advertised on a website on 8th November 2012. (Posting date June 2012).

2. I emailed Company X on 8th November 2012 saying I was interested in the position Y as advertised.

3. I received a phone call on my mobile phone from Mr A (Company X) on 8thNovember 2012.

Mr A stated my CV was very good and could I come in for an interview. I said yes for 12th November 2012

4. I went to Company X for interview 12th November 2012

I ask the receptionist that I have come for an interview with Mr A (Company X) about the position Y. She went away and came back a short time later saying did you not get email? I said no. Also I stated that the interview was arranged from a previous phone call.

She said he is too busy now and would telephone you later today to book a new interview date. I said ok and left.

Received no telephone call that day.

5. I was unaware of email from Mr A Company X sent on 8th November 2012 until after the interview.

The email asks me to telephone the Mrs B to arrange a time to come in on 12th November 2012.

6. I emailed Mr A (Company X) on the 12th November 2012 stating that I turned up today as requested for an interview.

But the receptionist told me you were too busy and she would telephone later in the day to arrange a new interview date. There was no response from the receptionist that day.

Also ask to let me know when you are available to take an interview.

7. I received an email from Mr A(Company X) on the12th November 2012 ,asking why I turned up today for an interview rather telephone for an interview?

8. I replied to email on the 13th November 2012 from Mr A (Company X) on the 12th November 2012.

I said:

“If you remember you telephone me last week after I emailed you about position Y, I said ok to come in on the 12th November 2012.

9. I telephoned Company X on the 14th November 2012 to rearrange a interview date

asked for Mrs B.

I told Mrs B that I was telephoning to arrange interview to see Mr A for the position Y. I was told interviews were postponed until the “New Year”.

10. I received email from Mr A (Company X) on Wednesday 14th November 2012.

Saying that:

“We have postponed interviews until the New Year and we will contact you to arrange an interview also If your circumstances change please advise “.

I read this email after I telephoned.

12 I telephoned Company X on the 7th January 2013. Was unable to speak to Mr A

13 I emailed Mr A Company X on the 7th January 2013.

Saying:

“I would like to know when you are able to redo an interview for the position Y “.

14. Mr A Company X responded via email on 7th January 2013,

Saying:

” We have closed the position at the moment due to the new government employment requirements as this requires more expense on the company to comply with their information they needed ”.

15. I applied for new job as advertised on website (Posting date December 2012) from the same company X for the position of Z on the 7th January 2013 via email with attached CV.

16. This was back up with a postal application to Company X (recorded delivery) on the 9th January 2013.

17. Posted EHR EQA 2010 Questionnaire (recorded delivery) to Company X on the 16th January 2013.

Key

Position Y = 1st job application

Position Z = 2nd job application

I am using “Tamara Lewis Employment Law an advisers Handbook 9th Edition” as a guide

My questions are

1. When doing an ET1 claim (representing myself)

Do I call:

(a). “Company X” as respondent

(b). “I” as claimant

In The ET1 section 5 (YourClaim)

2. Do I need to quote the law? (a or b ) (a and b)

(a). EQA 2010 s5(1) and (2)

(b). EQA 2010 s13(1) and (2)

3. Summary of loss

(a) How do I calculate claim value? (MJ statement 2011 ET awards age discrimination shows

(a). Range £5k to 100K

(b). Average 20K

Thanks

JD

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Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

I hope the forum guys will be along later with advice for you, although they may need time to read through everything you've posted. :)

 

I can email real event log and EHR EQA 2010 Questionnaire later if required

 

I'm afraid email contact is against CAG rules and should not be necessary. For the protection of all concerned, advice should be kept to the open forum please.

 

My best, HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Hello

 

What makes you think this is age discrimination?

 

Google Vento and Da Bell cases for guidelines on calculating discrimination compensation.

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jdavis68 As a lay person you are not required to state the specific sections of the Act you are claiming under. However, you need to complete the claim with care, so it is worth asking a lawyer to draft it.

 

A schedule of loss will not be needed until a hearing is listed, the other party make an application for you to supply one or the tribunal directs you to provide one.

 

Your first step is getting the claim accepted at all. Simply being older or younger than other applicants would not be sufficient proof of age discrimination.

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Because

 

1. they promised an interview

2. once they have seen they did not want to interview me

3. they say job closed due to new goverment rules which added cost to the company

4. job relisted on website (slight name change but the same job)

5. my long work experience and qualifications are well above what is required to do this job

6. I am the only applicant

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Get a lawyer to send them a letter setting out your complaint, specifying age discrimination and why you believe it to be so. Ask for disclosure of the details of the successful applicant and the profile of the candidates shortlisted and those called for interview. As they cannot ask about age, you will have to infer from length of relevant experience of the other candidates, so couch your equality questions in those terms.

 

What are the new rules they refer to? If it is to do with older workers and pensions, etc., then your case is stronger. It is like an emplyer telling a pregnant candidate, "Can't give you the job as there are new maternity rules and I want to evade them".

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This is the quote

"We have closed the position at the moment due to the new government employment requirements as this requires more expense on the company to comply with their information they needed"

jd

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It is worth sending them a legal letter to try to get the matter settled at an early stage.

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Hi jdavis6809,

 

sorry, just reading through your points, as a non-legal person, I'm struggling to understand how you might have a case. Could you clarify a few points?

 

The role had been advertised since June yet you could still apply for it in November. Was it an open/generic, ongoing advert rather than for a specific role? I'd imagine they would have had 100s (if not 1,000s) of applicants in the current economic climate. You were fortunate to get an interview offer.

 

Googling, I see that there was a lot of new employment legislation which came in in late 2012 relating to minimum wage, pension costs and retirement age legislation, so the company's explanation about taking time out to consider these employment changes has a ring of authenticity, after all the original job advert was at least 4 months old (June - Nov).

 

Couldn't the employer have guessed your approximate age from the CV you submitted - the CV was the basis on which they offered you an interview in the first place.

 

From what I understand from above, following the phone call the company emailed you to ask you to arrange an interview time with Mrs B. From the company's perspective you didn't - you turned up on the day (12th Nov) without a pre-arranged time-slot for the interview.

 

The company have now refreshed the job offer (in the light of new legislation?) and readvertised. You only (re)applied for this new role on the 7th (and 9th) of Jan. - have they got back to you with a yes/no yet?

 

Only a week later you followed up your application with an equality act questionnaire! Why? That may have scuppered your chances of a new interview.

 

Where does age discrimination come into all of this?

 

I'm guessing, from what you say, that Tamara Lewis's book is for legal advisors - not for us non-professionals. As a result, I'm sorry to say, you may have already made false assumptions about your case as a result of working from such a book. The central London law centre website has a downloadable copy of Tamara's 'claimant's companion' which gives some general guidance on tribunal cases, perhaps that might be worth looking at.

 

Sorry to sound so negative, but, speaking from personal experience, when you are trying to do this on your own without legal advice, you can easily beguile yourself into believing you have a strong case without really testing out it's legal strengths and weaknesses. the law is a contrary thing, logic-defying at times to the likes of you and me. Before you know it, you are down at the Tribunal in a case management discussion (CMD) or a pre-hearing review (PHR) wondering what the hell is going on!

 

You may be wasting an awful lot of time and energy and worry for nothing y'know. so be careful.

 

I see we are the only two current users at this late hour on a Saturday - so, I'm off for a drink down the local now.

 

All the best jdavis6809. SL.

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Hello,

 

1. the job advert was directgov which is free (shows posting date)

2. they phone me to come in for an interview (they were keen at first, 1 hr from my email ) 12 nov 2012 (they would have had an idea how old I was when I turned up

3. I turn up for interviw but turned way because they said to busy but I said the interview it was perarranged by phone call

3. they email later to arrage to come in the same day I turned up (I read email after I when to interview)

4. they email to say interview postponed untill after xmas

5. they advertise the job again (posting date 21th Dec 2012 (I am not aware of this until later)

6. I email 7th Jan 2013 to rearrange interview.

7. they email back to say job closed beacause of new goverment employment requirements

8. I reapply for job 7th Jan 2012 via email slighly diffrenent job title (no response)

9. I sent postal application (recorded) 9th jan 2013 (no response)

10. sent questionnaire (recorded) 14th 2013.

 

hope that helps

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So could it not be that the reason they didn't offer you another interview was that you missed the one they offered by reading the email too late?

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Hello,

 

1. the late read email said to telephone for interview to come in on the same day I went (I did not read this email before I went to the interview)

 

2. I telephoned later in the week to arange a new interview then they postpone until xmas (8 weeks)

 

3. they change job title on the 2nd job application (but the discription is the same) thats way I reapplied

 

4. I am the only applicant.

 

hope that helps

 

 

jd

 

 

 

5. the area were I live does not have meny job in my field

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Hi jdavis6809,

 

ah, the dir.gov job website.... (I sign on and I have to say it is the worst job website I have to look at on a weekly basis!). However, if you sign on/draw benefits you may have redress through your local Jobcentre.

 

For the most part they are a shower of dulled, apathetic civil servants (I think I can generalise) but if you seek their support, and frame your complaint in terms of getting off benefits - they should light up like Christmas trees at the prospect of reducing their claim numbers.

 

As a non-legal person I can't see how you can successfully claim age discrimination if they already knew your age from your CV before they invited you to an interview? The arrangements for the first interview seem fluffed by both sides.

 

You didn't get an interview, let alone a job offer, so what is your loss/detriment?

 

As regards your application for the re-advertised role; I imagine that if I was an employer, I would find it somewhat off-putting (to say the least) if I received a job application from someone one day. who followed it up with an equalities act questionnaire one week later. That may have put an end to your chances of an interview don't you think?

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if the advert has been up for weeks how do you know you are the only applicant?


Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!

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No, that doesn't follow. In this day and age how many jobs do you think really only have one applicant?

 

Sad to say more likely they have ruled you out on the basis of being unable to follow instructions.

 

I do not see that you have a case.


Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!

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Remember that they are allowed to reject you because you didn't see the email, because they didn't like your haircut, because you used the wrong font on your CV or because you weren't wearing a pink hat. To me it sounds just as likely that you were rejected for not checking the email of 8 November rather than anything to do with your age. It sounds like you might have something to hang your hat on with this statement about new government regulations, if they relate specifically to older workers, but proving that this amounts to age discrimination is a bit of a long shot.


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ET Age discrimination in recruitment

EQA 2010 questionnaire sent 16th January 2013

ET1 submitted 28th January 2013

ET3 response 6th February 2013 (does not give their version of events just says we do not discriminate)

ET CMO 20th February 2013

ET hearing 10th May 2013

My questions

1. I need to do statement of loss by 5th march 2013 to respondent ( I know about VENTO mid band £15,000)

2. Any other amounts applicable I am not able find out

3. I am right that the total remedy is statement of loss + 1 off compensatory award or not

4. Respondent will not answer questions to questionnaire due to DPA 1998 (requested twice)

5. Strange as it may seem Respondent is not represented not stated in ET3, letter tennis is between me and the respondent. This may cause a problem when it comes to the bundle. Respondent may not been able to create an effective bundle ( I am to create my own just in case or if there a no show from the respondent at the hearing)

My statement of loss as is

A) Injury to Feelings £15,000

 

The Claimant alleges that he suffered from discrimination that would fall within the mid range in Vento

B) Interest (Injury to Feelings) 6% calculate from ET1 submission to ET Hearing Date

Please note that this statement of loss will be amended as and when required

Regards Jdavis6809

Will keep you posted as I progress

Any problems I will post as well

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15,000 because you didnt get an interview? nice bonus for not getting an interview, I really cant see how you can claim age discrimintation, perhaps they just changed their mind about the vacancy, perhaps they couldnt be bothered to reply to your application for the 2nd job, perhaps there isnt a job, who knows there are many reasons not to give peoploe an interview or a job not always logical ones, personally I would spend my energy on looking for other positions rather than concentrating on a percieved slight/discrimination and I really cant see how you have suffered a financial loss, had you been given an interview you might not have got the job


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The tribunal doesn't really have jurisdiction to award over £6,000 even if you win based on merely not giving you a job, and for a case like this I would imagine the award would be closer to £2-3k.

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Agreed. Suffering a detriment due to age once IN a job would be easier to demonstrate. IMO I think it is going to be nigh on impossible to prove that the withdrawal of an interview was due to

age.


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thanks

 

but whould like answers to questions and statement of loss is ok

 

also questionnaire should prove age dicrimination which why are not answering

 

there et3 response was every poor did not state their version of events (just says we do not discriminate)

 

I give them the benifit from the first job application for them to say it is posponed then after two months to say it was closed then they readvertised job postion before telling me it was closed thats why I applied again for the 2nd job position. (it is the same job same spec)

 

also they are saying 2nd job position has a closing date which was still live when I submitted the ET1 but the advert I have shows no closing date

 

 

 

hope you understand

 

regards

 

jdavis6809

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I think we understand your angst, but cannot help but feel that you are facing a seriously uphill task.

 

As previously advised, the Vento banding that you have quoted is unreasonably high - even if you can prove discrimination.

 

The employer is under no obligation to answer the questionnaire. Inference can be drawn from this by a Tribunal, but only subject to the hurdle of proof being overcome.

 

Whilst the lack of detail in the response can be challenged, are you able to show that they do not normally employ people of a certain age, that they have ONLY employed older/younger people in similar advertised roles previously, and that there were no other reasons which could have seen you excluded? Do you fulfil all of the criteria for the job? Was there anything about your demeanour which might have put them off interviewing you when you contacted them?

 

They certainly appear to have behaved unprofessionally, but this seems to be some way off being able to demonstrate discrimination, and the claim could easily be determined vexatious unless you have more evidence.


Any advice given is done so on the assumption that recipients will also take professional advice where appropriate.

 

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No not without the questionnaire being answered

 

I do know age discrimination is hard to prove

 

I f you are saying with out questionnaire disclosure they can till win then whats the point of the the questionnaire

 

regards

 

jdavis6809

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