I need advice about demotion of my job

[Domestix]

I have worked for my company for 12 years.4 years ago I was promoted to team leader.4 months ago I was moved into retail from chiller doing same job.today I was given 2 weeks notice for demotion as they no longer need the post I work at,this means taking a cut in pay.I was offered redundancy if this was unacceptable to me to 'save face'.I was never given a review and have been told only my job as team leader is being demoted non of the others are.can they do this and do I have any rights as I cannot go back to the position I held before as I have been replaced.please help.

[seanamarts]

Welcome to CAG

 

I am going to move your thread to the correct forum. There you will receive some answers to your questions.

 

here is the link

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?150-Employment-and-minimum-wage-problems

 

seanamarts

 

Site Team

[Emmzzi]

Are other people in identical roles and keeping them? If so there should be some kind of redundancy "pool" and scoring system etc to select who does not keep their job.

 

This may however be an academic exercise and come out with exactly the same result.... but would enable you to take further action once you were dismissed.

 

Please tell us more about other people doing the same job.

[Domestix]

yes there are other team leaders but the company are only demoting my position.the restructure of my job means going back on the factory line and losing over £100 per week.

[SNALF]

Emmzzi is right then Domestix, they have to 'pool' all peeps in the same position and make a fair and documented selection. Can you just confirm that the post of TL was permanent and not an 'acting' role. It's deemed permanent anyway if you've held it for more than four years as stated, but your employers may not realise this and may have selected you on the mistaken presumption that your post is on a temporary basis. Was a new or amended contract ever issued? Are you happy to raise a formal grievance about what has happened?

[Domestix]

the other t/l all run their own lines.due to restructure of shifts the scales were put in retail and a team left in the chiller to stack down.I was in charge of both teams originally.due to restructure I was asked to go into retail with the scales.after 4 months I was informed that my position was no longer needed.it was not me getting demotion it was the position.i was not aware this was temporary position and did not receive a new contract for this .i still work on the contract of t/l i signed 4 years ago.

[SNALF]

It doesn't matter whether the function which you did was temporary or not, your status as Team leader was not temporary and therefore, they have made you redundant from that post without going through the lawful redundancy procedure. Are you happy with raising a formal grievance? You can try an informal approach first if you wish to preserve relationships but you need to get across to your employer quickly what they have done wrong here before it's too late for them to take a step backwards.

[Domestix]

they offered me 2 choices,redundancy or going back on the scales as just a normal operator on reduced wages,can they do this?

[SNALF]

Did they consult with you and others about redundancy? Regardless, they can't do it without pooling. They need to have a business case to justify the redundancy and then consult with those effected, or 'at risk'. If there are others doing a similar role, they have to throw you all in the same pot and show a fair selection process for who is going. Then during consultation period, they can then look at offering alternatives.

[Domestix]

as the only t/l for this particar post it only affects me as other t/l run the production lines not scales.i cannot afford to take redundancy and end up with no job so the only option is to take demotion and lose a serious amount of wages.how much notice do they have to give as this comes into effect from 27th january with only 2 weeks notice.

[Domestix]

any advice welcome

[renegadeimp]

You need to check your contract very very closely and see what it says.

 

However, they still need to adhere to a consultation period. They cant simply say " Hey you. You're being demoted in a week. Either accept it or quit". Especially if they arent doing it to anyone else and the business isnt struggling.

 

Can i ask if you have a Union rep at your workplace you can speak to?

[Domestix]

part of the contract is we are not allowed to join a union

[honeybee13]

part of the contract is we are not allowed to join a union

 

Really? I didn't think they could stop you. Is that written down?

 

HB

[renegadeimp]

Thats a very concerning clause, however, its not illegal although it could be unlawful as they are denying you representation.

 

Could you also post up the relevant part of your contract if possible?

[renegadeimp]

Really? I didn't think they could stop you. Is that written down?

 

HB

 

It's not illegal HB, but it may be unlawful for the reasons i set out above. I was a union rep for 6 years working with (but felt like for) the biggest meat processing company in europe, and we had tons of issues with them. Silly thing is, because they never listened to concerns, they are now backing out of most of europe and sticking to 2-3 countries, but thats for another discussion.

 

The part that they can technically skip around is that to hold a certain position, they can say that you arent allowed to join a union, but everyone who holds the same rank in the company must be on the same standing, meaning that none of that rank can join. Also, there is no requirement for a company to recognise a union, but they cant stop you joining one outside work and bringing them in to represent your rights, but there is no mandate that says the employer must do the will of the union.

 

You can join one outside as i said, but they can only come to discussions/disciplinaries as a witness and to ensure that your rights are being upheld, and not as a rep who is trying to change the way the company works, such as they do in a certain major union.

Edited January 20, 2013 by renegadeimp

[renegadeimp]

The rules as they currently stand are:

 

Every worker has a right, by law, to choose whether or not to belong to a trade union. Action by the employer aimed at preventing a worker from exercising this right, whether at the recruitment stage, during employment or by termination of employment, is unlawful.

 

If your employer tries to prevent or discourage you from joining a union, for example by threatening that you lose a benefit, or by offering you some benefit in return for not joining, seek advice as early as possible. The union will be well-placed to sort things out, including by achieving compensation for you at an employment tribunal.

 

 

Taken from http://www.worksmart.org.uk/rights/can_my_employer_prevent_me_from_becoming

 

In short, you can join one, your employer cant stop you from doing that. But there is nothing to say that the employer must recognise one within the company.

[Domestix]

i am asking for my contract via letter tomorrow as they do not give us a copy.this hopefully will be done frm the original in front of me so as not to add amendments.the only people allowed to be witness are fellow workers as they will not allow any unions or reps on their property

[renegadeimp]

They dont give you a copy? They are breaking the law there. Under UK law, you must be given a copy of your contract or at the very least a written copy of your terms and conditions. Normally when you start your employment or soon after. If you move or are promoted to another job in the workplace, they should provide you with an updated one. They cannot refuse to give you a copy.

 

As for unions or reps, call one of the main unions up and speak to them. It really sounds like you are working for a very very shady company who is refusing to let you exercise your legal, statutory rights.

 

Regarding the contract, if they dont give you one, they can change it and amend it at any time and say you agreed to it.

 

I still have the 6 contracts i had when i spent 11 years with my last employer and was employed in various positions and departments through the company.

Edited January 20, 2013 by renegadeimp

[renegadeimp]

Contract of Employment

 

As soon as you start work there is a contract of employment between you and your employer. A contract is like a set of promises made between both sides that can be enforced by law. Anything your employer has told you about the job is part of your contract, even if it is not written down. Your employer should not change your contract without your agreement. You also have statutory rights which your contract may improve on but should not reduce. These include: maternity rights, minimum holiday entitlement and breaks from work, the right to trade union membership, and a minimum wage covering most workers.

 

Keep anything in writing you may have about your job, including the job advert, pay slips, and any letters from your employer. These are evidence of what you have agreed with your employer. It is best if you are given a written contract with details about your job. If your employer only tells you these things it may be difficult to prove what was said if there is a disagreement later.

 

Certain terms of employment are implied as being part of your contract even if they are not in writing. So for example, your employer has a duty to safeguard your personal safety at work. ‘Custom and practice’ can also provide evidence of unwritten terms in your contract. For example, if an annual bonus has always been paid it is likely to be an implied term of your contract.

 

Some employers do not give their employees anything in writing, but they are breaking the law. All workers have a right to a ‘written statement of their main terms and conditions of employment’. This is not exactly the same as a contract, because your contract could include additional items, for example rights to compassionate leave or job related expenses, but it should cover the main parts of your contract and is important evidence of the contract between you and your employer. This written statement must be given to an employee within two months of starting work.

 

What should be written down?

You must be given one document which has all the following written down:

 

¨ the name of the employer and worker

 

¨ the date the employment began

 

¨ if your job is not permanent, when it is expected to end; and if it is for a fixed term, how long it will continue

 

¨ whether any employment with a previous employer counts as part of this employment

 

¨ the job title, or brief job description

 

¨ rate of pay, how it is worked out, and how often it will be paid

 

¨ hours of work (including normal working hours)

 

¨ holiday entitlement and holiday pay

 

¨ the place of work

 

¨ the existence of any relevant collective agreements (e.g. a union agreement)

 

You should also be given written particulars of the following, but they can be on separate documents which may not be given to you but which you should be able to see:

 

¨ terms relating to sickness

 

¨ pension arrangements

 

¨ notice periods (your main statement should either include notice, or refer you to the legal minimum notice or a relevant collective agreement which you can see, e.g. a union agreement)

 

¨ disciplinary and grievance procedures.

 

If you are entitled to written particulars your employer must give these or s/he will be breaking the law. New employees should get written particulars within 2 months. Existing employees who do not have written particulars must be given them on request. If your employer tries to sack you for asking for this right you can complain of unfair dismissal, even if you have only just started work for that employer.

[renegadeimp]

Honestly, if you want my opinion on this after being in a major union for years... I would say you need to get professional legal advice about this. Either go and see a employment solicitor, or join a trade union ( its around a fiver a week, less if its part time workers), and speak to their solicitors for as long as you want, whenever you want, for free.

[Domestix]

I signed my t/l contract 4 years ago and it is held by personel.I am asking for a copy of my contract with my signature on done from the original in front of me so I can make sure they don't amend it.also stated in my letter I require within 14 days written proposal on my job,what is happening,what job they are demoting me to and wage package.upon receiving these I will then consider the terms but if I have to will work under protest of new job and wages.£100 is alot of money to lose every week.I have been there over 12 years so surely I get 3 months notice of the change not 2 weeks like they gave me.

[renegadeimp]

Well, i posted the law for you as it stands. As i said in my last post, i would seriously advise you get legal advice about this, as the employer looks to be evading his statutory responsibilities which is a very serious offence.

[stu007]

Hi

 

I would follow the excellent advice given to you by renegadeimp and I second their opinion that you really need to seek Legal Advice on this matter

 

Also when you were informed of this promotion were you given any documentation stating the promotion to new position, new salary and any clauses say on a 6 months probation period or performance relate etc.

Edited January 20, 2013 by stu007